Do we really want to start all over again?

[SWC75]

Things are going bad and everybody wants to fire the coach, which means his entire staff, (or close to it). You have to re-establish all of our recruiting contacts. We may have a whole new offense and defense to learn. Players who came here because of the coach who recruited them may transfer. Those recruits we've lined up may de-commit. It would be the fourth new coaching staff in a decade. Future recruits would wonder if the guys recruiting them will still be here when they get here.

Shafer won a bowl game last year. Coach Mac was 6-16-1 in his first 23 games. Isn't it better to stick with these guys and give them a chance to figure things out?

 

[dasher]

Things are going bad and everybody wants to fire the coach, which means his entire staff, (or close to it). You have to re-establish all of our recruiting contacts. We may have a whole new offense and defense to learn. Players who came here because of the coach who recruited them may transfer. Those recruits we've lined up may de-commit. It would be the fourth new coaching staff in a decade. Future recruits would wonder if the guys recruiting them will still be here when they get here.

Shafer won a bowl game last year. Coach Mac was 6-16-1 in his first 23 games. Isn't it better to stick with these guys and give them a chance to figure things out?

yes and we had the sack mac group right before we went unbeaten.

 

[cvilleorange]

I think you have to give the guy a chance to make some adjustments. he needs to evaluate the offensive staff objectively (pretty bad thus far) and make changes. We went from an offensive staff that had a former NFL offensive coordinator and experienced O line coach to having an offensive coordinator with zero experience. that is on shafe bringing the staff in. he is the only one who knows if the problem is mainly about mcdonald or about mcdonald and the rest of the staff. Same with defense, but they have been a little better relative to the offense

 

[Madbiker]

Could be headed for 3-9 which is a major step back. But I think you have to give HCSS another year but there needs to be some changes made.

 

[Doctor44]

No, but the inability of the staff to make change is concerning. I want Shafer to win. I would love for him to be the coach that brings us back to relevancy. But, he's gotta show the desire to bench players who aren't performing and make changes when they need to be made.

 

[Marroniac]

I agree that having consistency on a staff has value. I just wish Shafer would admit the offense needs fixing. There has been no indication so far that he plans on making any major adjustments. We are beyond tweaks; there is enough of a sample size to know that now.

 

[CuseOnly]

I agree that having consistency on a staff has value. I just wish Shafer would admit the offense needs fixing. There has been no indication so far that he plans on making any major adjustments. We are beyond tweaks; there is enough of a sample size to know that now.

I think that there will be changes made, I just don't think that if they are we will hear much about them. Shafer is not the type of guy to call out his guys publicly and throw them under the bus. Changes will be made and we will hear about it after it is successful and only if it ever is. Assuming of course that he doesn't have to make anyone look bad on his staff.

 

[Briancuse]

I haven't seen enough evidence to suggest that Schafer is the guy that can take this program to the next level.

 

[SWC75]

I agree that having consistency on a staff has value. I just wish Shafer would admit the offense needs fixing. There has been no indication so far that he plans on making any major adjustments. We are beyond tweaks; there is enough of a sample size to know that now.

I do notice that the bubble screens have mostly disappeared. And those wacky goal line plays would meet the definition of 'adjustments', if not very good ones. And going to the 3-4 for Georgia Tech last year was an adjustment. So I think they do make adjustments but they seem to be groping around in the dark to make them.

 

[llandz]

Definitely need some adjustments, but point well made that it should not be a whole new staff. Special teams and offense need work. A coaching change on the offensive side or change in play calling would indicate the seriousness and commitment of the program to both the fans and the future recruits. I think the frustration is that it is becoming the same ol, same ol shooting ourselves in the foot, and we want to see an effort made for some changes. If the changes are not better than at least the effort will still be appreciated. The frustration stems from seeing the same mistakes being made, and nothing being done to rectify those mistakes.
Also comments such as "we will work our butts off next week" do not generate much confidence. I would have thought we were already working our butts off, and if we were not, then why? It diminishes the seriousness of our previous games.
I'll maybe give a pass on the ISIS comment which was also very inappropriate. Once again it is a statement that makes it sound like we should settle for mediocrity when compared to what goes on in the world. No one should ever settle for mediocrity in anything they do in life. Not a good little lesson for your players or anyone else. As I said in another thread if a coach in the SEC made any comparable statement to this they would have been run out of town overnight by the fans. Serious football schools play to win and for nothing else.

 

[MikeSU02]

We've been bad to mediocre for over a dozen years now. The issue has to be considered a program-level issue rather than a coaching issue at this point.

The goal should be top 25 each year with a team with an outside shot at the national title once a decade.

The bowl game wins are fantastic, but getting to a bowl game nowadays isn't nearly as prestigious as what it used to be.

We need a commitment to being truly competitive year in and year out and that goes way beyond Shafer at this point.

 

[tep624]

The biggest offensive issue we have right now is trying to fit a system with the wrong personnel. It's plain as day and that's why the offense is so disjointed.

I will give this staff the benefit of the doubt until they get their own QB. Once that happens, if we see the same inconsistent play that we see now, then it's time for a change.

 

[StanCuse44]

I think that there will be changes made, I just don't think that if they are we will hear much about them. Shafer is not the type of guy to call out his guys publicly and throw them under the bus. Changes will be made and we will hear about it after it is successful and only if it ever is. Assuming of course that he doesn't have to make anyone look bad on his staff.

Yeah, I think you're right. I can definitely see him making changes but trying to keep it low-key so as to not call out one of the "family". I kind of like that though. I don't see him just sitting back and staying the course at this point. There are now plenty of examples of ineptitude and lack of focus so it's, frankly, an easy call to make. Now let's do it. Modify the plan.

 

[Upstate]

Again, SWC is the voice of reason. All of the overreactors calling for Shafe's head could learn a thing or two.

 

[CuseOnly]

I am not calling for his head, never was. I am calling for changes to be made to get results.

 

[im4cuse]

Accountability follows expectations. It governs every human interaction. In the business world, to family life. Fail to meet expectations and something has to change. But expectations must be in reasonable alignment: you can't expect the junior staffer to be your top employee, or your nine year old to act like an adult.
I say this as an alum, and supporter for more than 40 years: For our football program, I think expectations have simply been too high (for some on this board and in the SU community). At the end of the day, we are a small, private school in the NE. Not many schools can consistently be strong in D-1 football with a small footprint like SU. Duke is decent now, but for years they sucked. Vandy mostly sucks (we should play them BTW). Northwestern is respectable but is middle of pack in the BiG. BC is like us: decent to pretty bad, reliant on just a handful of players to make them successful (and accordingly inconsistent). Miami is a different animal b/c of location to recruits (though they were horrible too post probation, like the 66-13 beatdown we put on them when we had #5). We do ourselves no favor with the scheduling, of course. Made worse b/c we are now in a much stronger league. Little margin for error: Penn State, ND, etc.
As basketball is about to start, I have come to think of our football program as the kind of mid-major we routinely beat in the preseason for the last 25 years: teams that maybe have 1-2 good players, but no one who could play for us, or be recruited by us. Even if these teams keep it close, our superior talent, depth (and yes coaching) leads inevitably to us pulling them: they miss the key shots, can't get a stop when they need it, etc. These mid-majors might win their league, make the tournament (Pinstripe Bowl style) but that's it. That's SU football, really, since the dying days of the PP regime. We are a Drexel, a St. Joseph, a Detroit. Reality more aligned with reasonable expectations. This may be hard for some to accept here, I appreciate.
BTW don't think we are too unique here: do Kentucky fans expect their football team to go to a bowl? Probably not. In hoop both schools select who they want; in football, neither is on the radar for the top players and its all about talent (and depth of talent) even more than coaching.
I thought 6 wins this year would be a miracle, but 5 more realistic. Now that seems like a stretch and failure to get to 5 I think, might trigger the demand for accountability.
Bottom line, I will always bleed orange, and will travel south to Winston-Salem in a few weeks, but I'm (in my old age) getting more realistic about expectations when you have a roster like ours ...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Accountability follows expectations. It governs every human interaction. In the business world, to family life. Fail to meet expectations and something has to change. But expectations must be in reasonable alignment: you can't expect the junior staffer to be your top employee, or your nine year old to act like an adult.
I say this as an alum, and supporter for more than 40 years: For our football program, I think expectations have simply been too high (for some on this board and in the SU community). At the end of the day, we are a small, private school in the NE. Not many schools can consistently be strong in D-1 football with a small footprint like SU. Duke is decent now, but for years they sucked. Vandy mostly sucks (we should play them BTW). Northwestern is respectable but is middle of pack in the BiG. BC is like us: decent to pretty bad, reliant on just a handful of players to make them successful (and accordingly inconsistent). Miami is a different animal b/c of location to recruits (though they were horrible too post probation, like the 66-13 beatdown we put on them when we had #5). We do ourselves no favor with the scheduling, of course. Made worse b/c we are now in a much stronger league. Little margin for error: Penn State, ND, etc.
As basketball is about to start, I have come to think of our football program as the kind of mid-major we routinely beat in the preseason for the last 25 years: teams that maybe have 1-2 good players, but no one who could play for us, or be recruited by us. Even if these teams keep it close, our superior talent, depth (and yes coaching) leads inevitably to us pulling them: they miss the key shots, can't get a stop when they need it, etc. These mid-majors might win their league, make the tournament (Pinstripe Bowl style) but that's it. That's SU football, really, since the dying days of the PP regime. We are a Drexel, a St. Joseph, a Detroit. Reality more aligned with reasonable expectations. This may be hard for some to accept here, I appreciate.
BTW don't think we are too unique here: do Kentucky fans expect their football team to go to a bowl? Probably not. In hoop both schools select who they want; in football, neither is on the radar for the top players and its all about talent (and depth of talent) even more than coaching.
I thought 6 wins this year would be a miracle, but 5 more realistic. Now that seems like a stretch and failure to get to 5 I think, might trigger the demand for accountability.
Bottom line, I will always bleed orange, and will travel south to Winston-Salem in a few weeks, but I'm (in my old age) getting more realistic about expectations when you have a roster like ours ...

That's not going to be a popular take, but you make some good points.

 

[orangeinjersey]

marrone fired spence when? 1 year?

 

[djorange1989]

I like Shafer a lot and think he has what it takes to win here. I question McDonald's ability to fix things however. He is stubborn, thin skinned and somewhat arrogant. Those are character traits that don't usually lead to self reflection and the willingness to change. If we can find someone with OC success who can recruit, maybe from a non power conference if need be, we may want to think about a change after the season

 

[PhatOrange]

Love Shafer and will support him to the end. GMc needs to get better or pack his bags.

And I'm of the belief that he's being over rated as a recruiter to. A top dog recruiter is getting P5 kids out of Florida, not FIU kids. LVille and WVU for instance chew him up and spit him out in Florida

 

[Chris02M]

I agree that having consistency on a staff has value. I just wish Shafer would admit the offense needs fixing. There has been no indication so far that he plans on making any major adjustments. We are beyond tweaks; there is enough of a sample size to know that now.

why would he say those things in public? Maybe he talked to the OC in private

 

[Chris02M]

if there are to be changes I think you will see them on Saturday since we have slightly more time to prepare

 

[xc84]

Things are going bad and everybody wants to fire the coach, which means his entire staff, (or close to it). You have to re-establish all of our recruiting contacts. We may have a whole new offense and defense to learn. Players who came here because of the coach who recruited them may transfer. Those recruits we've lined up may de-commit. It would be the fourth new coaching staff in a decade. Future recruits would wonder if the guys recruiting them will still be here when they get here.

Shafer won a bowl game last year. Coach Mac was 6-16-1 in his first 23 games. Isn't it better to stick with these guys and give them a chance to figure things out?

No. The last thing I want or think we need is a HC change.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I like Shafer a lot and think he has what it takes to win here. I question McDonald's ability to fix things however. He is stubborn, thin skinned and somewhat arrogant. Those are character traits that don't usually lead to self reflection and the willingness to change. If we can find someone with OC success who can recruit, maybe from a non power conference if need be, we may want to think about a change after the season

I'm curious. Have you had personal interactions with Coach McDonald? I only ask because folks that I have talked with that have hade personal, face to face, interaction with him would never describe him that way.

 

[raf4488]

St. Joe's or Drexel I think is selling us way short. We're still a P5 program with P5 TV money, and those hoops programs don't have anything close to our football resources. I think SU football is a Clemson or Purdue basketball right now, hovering around 7-11 to 10-8 in conference play with an NIT bid.