Do we really want to start all over again?

[CuseOnly]

St. Joe's or Drexel I think is selling us way short. We're still a P5 program with P5 TV money, and those hoops programs don't have anything close to our football resources. I think SU football is a Clemson or Purdue basketball right now, hovering around 7-11 to 10-8 in conference play with an NIT bid.

What good are the football resources when the school's administration will not use them for the enhancement of the football program? The last thing that the SU Board and Chancellor will spend that new $16 mil a year contract will be the football program.

We are the Tampa Bay Rays using the luxury tax from the Yankees and Red Sox every year to line their pockets and not improve their product on the field.

 

[Marroniac]

why would he say those things in public? Maybe he talked to the OC in private

If he did, that's awesome. I'm not calling for anyone's head; just not a fan of this scheme.

 

[cmr27]

We've been bad to mediocre for over a dozen years now. The issue has to be considered a program-level issue rather than a coaching issue at this point.

The goal should be top 25 each year with a team with an outside shot at the national title once a decade.

The bowl game wins are fantastic, but getting to a bowl game nowadays isn't nearly as prestigious as what it used to be.

We need a commitment to being truly competitive year in and year out and that goes way beyond Shafer at this point.

Great post. I think it was someone like Malcolm Gladwell who wrote an article studying airplane crashes a few years ago. People think one thing causes a crash but, in fact, it's usually the culmination of a dozen small mistakes. Same principle applies here. It took a lot of mistakes to get SU in this position. Replacing the HC won't fix the problem. We're going to need a dozen or so smart decisions -- starting with commitment from the people at the top -- to return us to the late 80s/early 90s prominence.

 

[CuseOnly]

Great post. I think it was someone like Malcolm Gladwell who wrote an article studying airplane crashes a few years ago. People think one thing causes a crash but, in fact, it's usually the culmination of a dozen small mistakes. Same principle applies here. It took a lot of mistakes to get SU in this position. Replacing the HC won't fix the problem. We're going to need a dozen or so smart decisions -- starting with commitment from the people at the top -- to return us to the late 80s/early 90s prominence.

There has always been a battle between academia and the athletic department at SU.

They need to make a decision once and for all if everyone on the board and administration is going to pull in the same direction and support the sports teams or don't. Both financially and in principle, more importantly financially.

If they decide not to support them and let them wither on the vine, fine. That makes my decision very easy as to not spend my dollars on the program as a fan. Lord knows I could spend them somewhere else.

If they decide to put the finances behind the program for it to be great, fine. Again that makes my decision easy to support them.

But this doing just enough to get by stuff is getting ridiculous. The reason the SEC and schools like OK and Texas are great is that there is never any hesitation to support the program with everything they have from the president to the janitors and fans.

A Chancellor saying they are supportive and actually putting your money where your mouth is and backing it up are 2 entirely different things. Hiring coaches on the cheap instead of hiring the best available is a prime example. You get what you pay for just like this athletic department.

 

[rrlbees]

The first chunk of money should go, but won't, to all the SU departments who were made to pay for the BE exit.

 

[CuseOnly]

The first chunk of money should go, but won't, to all the SU departments who were made to pay for the BE exit.

It should go to the fund to pay 4 and 5 star players to come here through a bag person.







just kidding...

 

[TampaLaker]

What good are the football resources when the school's administration will not use them for the enhancement of the football program? The last thing that the SU Board and Chancellor will spend that new $16 mil a year contract will be the football program.

We are the Tampa Bay Rays using the luxury tax from the Yankees and Red Sox every year to line their pockets and not improve their product on the field.

You mean the Tampa Bay Rays that missed the playoffs this year for the first time in seven years. The Tampa Bay Rays that had been predicted to be in the World Series before the season began, you mean that Tampa Bay Rays team that does not have a good product on the field... SU should dream of having that kind of team, the team that has the second most regular season wins in the last seven years...

 

[Pat Kelly]

People don't want to start over again… they want a coach who can give them wins now. If the option were a big name coach or Shafer, people would pick the big name.

 

[Stevenson]

We have been in the lower quartile of of college football for 11 years. We haven't been ranked in that time. Which "recruiting channels" actually need preserving? We suck. There is no where to go but up.

It's not about the hire. It's about the institutional commitment to football. Syracuse has not been committed to football since the 50s. The successes in the late 80s and 90s were in spite of a commitment. The product sucks. Locals and alumni loathe the product put on the field for the last decade. Die hands are turning their backs because the school simply doesn't give a as long as they can cash the ACC check. SU = Wake. No corner has been turned. We don't pay coaches so we get on the job training. SU football is minor league right now and no one calling the shots seems to care.

 

[SU2NASA]

Things are going bad and everybody wants to fire the coach, which means his entire staff, (or close to it). You have to re-establish all of our recruiting contacts. We may have a whole new offense and defense to learn. Players who came here because of the coach who recruited them may transfer. Those recruits we've lined up may de-commit. It would be the fourth new coaching staff in a decade. Future recruits would wonder if the guys recruiting them will still be here when they get here.

Shafer won a bowl game last year. Coach Mac was 6-16-1 in his first 23 games. Isn't it better to stick with these guys and give them a chance to figure things out?

If we start giving out cash to recruits I'm sure that we can put together a better recruiting class even if we're starting over.

 

[CuseOnly]

You mean the Tampa Bay Rays that missed the playoffs this year for the first time in seven years. The Tampa Bay Rays that had been predicted to be in the World Series before the season began, you mean that Tampa Bay Rays team that does not have a good product on the field... SU should dream of having that kind of team, the team that has the second most regular season wins in the last seven years...

I am talking about the Tampa Bay Rays that have been lining their owner pockets with other teams luxury tax since it was instituted. Two players on the Yankees were more than their entire payroll for over 15 years.

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm
http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/tb/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

Yes, those tampba bay rays.

 

[CousCuse]

I have one suggestion , or question. Why doesn't AAM get the carries at the beginning of the game to soften up the D with the heavy artillery and then hit them with the fast troops when they are worn down. That's how I have always seen it done. Gulley is not a battering ram.

 

[djorange1989]

I'm curious. Have you had personal interactions with Coach McDonald? I only ask because folks that I have talked with that have hade personal, face to face, interaction with him would never describe him that way.

I haven't it was an impression based on interviews I have seen and read with him, his snippy battles on Twitter with trolls etc. If you have heard much differently from those who know Coach McDonald well, then I am probably way off base and I apologize for the post I made. I would be glad to be 100% wrong.

 

[SWC75]

We have been in the lower quartile of of college football for 11 years. We haven't been ranked in that time. Which "recruiting channels" actually need preserving? We suck. There is no where to go but up.

It's not about the hire. It's about the institutional commitment to football. Syracuse has not been committed to football since the 50s. The successes in the late 80s and 90s were in spite of a commitment. The product sucks. Locals and alumni loathe the product put on the field for the last decade. Die hands are turning their backs because the school simply doesn't give a as long as they can cash the ACC check. SU = Wake. No corner has been turned. We don't pay coaches so we get on the job training. SU football is minor league right now and no one calling the shots seems to care.

If it's "not about the hire" then there is no sense in starting over. We just need to give the hire the support he needs.

Not too long ago people were lauding our recruiting class. Those are just verbal commitments. The staff is already working on the next class. I think there would be something lost there if we again cut bait. it's not worth doing unless we are sure we can do better. Even G-Rob got four years.

 

[TampaLaker]

I am talking about the Tampa Bay Rays that have been lining their owner pockets with other teams luxury tax since it was instituted. Two players on the Yankees were more than their entire payroll for over 15 years.

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm
http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/tb/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

Yes, those tampba bay rays.

Yeah, the stupid Yankees that overpay for players; if the Yankees $$ is the measure, then they should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER miss the playoffs. The measure is spending what you have correctly. That is the most difficult thing... the Rays scout the majors well, get the cast offs of other teams, then they have great coaches with Joe who makes the game a GAME and Hickey who teaches pitchers how to pitch. They also use advanced metrics better than almost anyone... you do know who started using the infield shift to a huge extent, don't you.

If you want to make a comparison, SU should emulate the Rays of the Stu Sternberg era. They do more with less.

 

[tep624]

We have been in the lower quartile of of college football for 11 years. We haven't been ranked in that time. Which "recruiting channels" actually need preserving? We suck. There is no where to go but up.

It's not about the hire. It's about the institutional commitment to football. Syracuse has not been committed to football since the 50s. The successes in the late 80s and 90s were in spite of a commitment. The product sucks. Locals and alumni loathe the product put on the field for the last decade. Die hands are turning their backs because the school simply doesn't give a as long as they can cash the ACC check. SU = Wake. No corner has been turned. We don't pay coaches so we get on the job training. SU football is minor league right now and no one calling the shots seems to care.

There's a lot of validity in what you say. This is the main reason why I don't get too hung up on this coach or that coach. Even if we get the greatest coach possible, the commitment to the football program isn't there, at least a commitment to make this a nationally recognized program. It's all talk right now.

Sometimes I almost think Gross is detached from reality with some of the comments he makes. I'll never forget him comparing our talent level to USC's when he arrived.

 

[Stevenson]

GROB got two years too many. Let's not make the same mistake twice.

The shafer hire was a product of a school with no commitment to football. No other program would have given him the time of day. We did and we get more years of suck.

So keep him around so these so called great recruits can come in and be coached by MAC stooges with no clue who will be position coaches in three years at East Tecticle State. The dome will get more empty, more fans will walk away, and another year will pass without being ranked and the product sucking, so keep these guys around because after all GROB got four years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I have one suggestion , or question. Why doesn't AAM get the carries at the beginning of the game to soften up the D with the heavy artillery and then hit them with the fast troops when they are worn down. That's how I have always seen it done. Gulley is not a battering ram.

Because PTG's a lot better than AAM.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

We have been in the lower quartile of of college football for 11 years. We haven't been ranked in that time. Which "recruiting channels" actually need preserving? We suck. There is no where to go but up.

It's not about the hire. It's about the institutional commitment to football. Syracuse has not been committed to football since the 50s. The successes in the late 80s and 90s were in spite of a commitment. The product sucks. Locals and alumni loathe the product put on the field for the last decade. Die hands are turning their backs because the school simply doesn't give a as long as they can cash the ACC check. SU = Wake. No corner has been turned. We don't pay coaches so we get on the job training. SU football is minor league right now and no one calling the shots seems to care.

So much of what you have written is true.

I think the commitment is increasing, with the new football facility being an example of that but, when you start as far behind as we are, with the limited resources we have and the natural barriers to improvement (depressed economic area, crappy natural geographic recruiting area etc.), catching up becomes so much harder.

 

[CuseOnly]

Yeah, the stupid Yankees that overpay for players; if the Yankees $$ is the measure, then they should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER miss the playoffs. The measure is spending what you have correctly. That is the most difficult thing... the Rays scout the majors well, get the cast offs of other teams, then they have great coaches with Joe who makes the game a GAME and Hickey who teaches pitchers how to pitch. They also use advanced metrics better than almost anyone... you do know who started using the infield shift to a huge extent, don't you.

If you want to make a comparison, SU should emulate the Rays of the Stu Sternberg era. They do more with less.

Personally, I don't gov e a s@^%#& about the Rays. SU cannot do more with less as you suggest as we have seen in the recent past, even when it happens it is the outlyer, not the norm. They were used as an example of what not do do with money, just like SU has done. Just because they have been successful over a few years does not mean that will continue. Let them play 100 years of baseball like the Yankees and see where the numbers lie.

 

[SWC75]

GROB got two years too many. Let's not make the same mistake twice.

The shafer hire was a product of a school with no commitment to football. No other program would have given him the time of day. We did and we get more years of suck.

So keep him around so these so called great recruits can come in and be coached by MAC stooges with no clue who will be position coaches in three years at East Tecticle State. The dome will get more empty, more fans will walk away, and another year will pass without being ranked and the product sucking, so keep these guys around because after all GROB got four years.

Pasqualoni and his group were from the Connecticut small college ranks, lower than this MAC group. Say what you want about him: he's our second winningest coach of all time and beat Florida, Ohio State, Texas, Michigan and Miami. Heck, Brian Kelly is a former small college and MAC coach and he's competing for national titles. Ben Schwartzwalder came here from Muhlenberg. Shafer's coached at Michigan and Stanford. McDaonald's been on the staff a tMaimi and the Cleveland Browns. Bullough's been at Michigan State, UCLA and the Browns. Citing where coaches began their carers as proof that they aren't any good is silly.

And you did say that the hire didn't matter. if the hire doesn't matter, neither does the fire.

 

[CousCuse]

Because PTG's a lot better than AAM.

That's debatable . You always run the big back first , that's how its been done forever at every level. You tackle Moore 15 times and let me know how you feel.

 

[SWC75]

Personally, I don't gov e a s@^%#& about the Rays. SU cannot do more with less as you suggest as we have seen in the recent past, even when it happens it is the outlyer, not the norm. They were used as an example of what not do do with money, just like SU has done. Just because they have been successful over a few years does not mean that will continue. Let them play 100 years of baseball like the Yankees and see where the numbers lie.

You brought up the Rays. Now you don't give a s@^%#& about them. If you can only judge somebody over 100 years, don't you have to judge SU over 100 years? We're the 15th winningest program of all time! Maybe you should go back to talking about how things are now.

 

[SWC75]

That's debatable . You always run the big back first , that's how its been done forever at every level. You tackle Moore 15 times and let me know how you feel.

if one of them was in the end zone, I'd be pretty happy.

 

[CousCuse]

Pasqualoni and his group were from the Connecticut small college ranks, lower than this MAC group. Say what you want about him: he's our second winningest coach of all time and beat Florida, Ohio State, Texas, Michigan and Miami. Heck, Brian Kelly is a former small college and MAC coach and he's competing for national titles. Ben Schwartzwalder came here from Muhlenberg. Shafer's coached at Michigan and Stanford. McDaonald's been on the staff a tMaimi and the Cleveland Browns. Bullough's been at Michigan State, UCLA and the Browns. Citing where coaches began their carers as proof that they aren't any good is silly.

And you did say that the hire didn't matter. if the hire doesn't matter, neither does the fire.

No beloved coach Mac from Maine mention SWC ?