do we want alec lemon to catch a lot of passes?

[SWC75]

i think lemon's presence make us more conservative in that nassib goes to him first. old habits are hard to break.

You think we would be better off without Lemon so Nassib wouldn't feel tempted to throw to him? :crazy:

 

[BlackKnight76]

Clark is only allowed to play in the Dome. Apparently.

I don't believe he saw the field against USC or Minnesota. If he did, it wasn't much.

I do think Kobena is at least one speed guy who would be helpful. But we need more of them, because he's still improving at the position, and now he's gone until the UConn game.

I don't think they trust Clark against more physical defenses. He is only like 160 soaking wet.

 

[Millhouse]

You think we would be better off without Lemon so Nassib wouldn't feel tempted to throw to him? :crazy:

I didn't say that. You have lost it

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[SmilinBob]

I don't think they trust Clark against more physical defenses. He is only like 160 soaking wet.

I see their reasoning but that sounds like the staff just out thinking themselves. We need guys that can stretch out a defense so Sales can work in the slot and Lemon can get first downs. I have to say that Lemon looked pretty good running with the ball on Saturday night.

 

[SWC75]

I didn't say that. You have lost it

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

You never said what you said.

 

[Millhouse]

You never said what you said.

the offense is best when Lemon's role is small.

 

[Chip]

I don't think they trust Clark against more physical defenses. He is only like 160 soaking wet.

Yeah, but he's not going to get much bigger, he's already a junior. And all defenses are physical. At least physical enough to beat up a 160 lb guy. He had a rough start against NW, but pulled it together to run a great route/great catch later in the game. No one stretches the field right now with Kobena out, and he has game experience, so I think we should use him for what we brought him here for. Otherwise, I'm not sure why we brought him here.

 

[Chip]

the offense is best when Lemon's role is small.

You're not winning this one. Like I said earlier in the post, you make a statement like this, and most people say you don't want him on the team and you never want anyone to throw to him. They can't look past the stats and see that when he catches 10 passes for 100 yards, we only score about 10-17 points and lose. Doesn't mean we shouldn't throw to him. Means we should be finding a way to get the better playmakers more involved when teams are targeting them and conceding passes over the middle to Lemon.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Yeah, but he's not going to get much bigger, he's already a junior. And all defenses are physical. At least physical enough to beat up a 160 lb guy. He had a rough start against NW, but pulled it together to run a great route/great catch later in the game. No one stretches the field right now with Kobena out, and he has game experience, so I think we should use him for what we brought him here for. Otherwise, I'm not sure why we brought him here.

Another personel mystery we will likely never have the answer to. Seems we have about 12 WR on the roster but we have some rule where we can only play 3 at a time and maybe four the entire game.

 

[sutomcat]

You're not winning this one. Like I said earlier in the post, you make a statement like this, and most people say you don't want him on the team and you never want anyone to throw to him. They can't look past the stats and see that when he catches 10 passes for 100 yards, we only score about 10-17 points and lose. Doesn't mean we shouldn't throw to him. Means we should be finding a way to get the better playmakers more involved when teams are targeting them and conceding passes over the middle to Lemon.

Or it could mean that against good defenses, Lemon is the only one on the team who can consistently get open and make catches.

 

[Millhouse]

Or it could mean that against good defenses, Lemon is the only one on the team who can consistently get open and make catches.

the 5 games are minnesota 2012 (25th pass defense so far), south florida 2011 (83rd in 2011), uconn 2011 (113th), pitt 2010 (19th), and connecticut 2009 (88th)

average pass defense ranking of those teams is 68th, slightly below average

now granted, sales isn't lighting up the 85 bears. i'll get those numbers. i suspect the average is lower.

northwestern so far is 112th but that's because we lit them up - we'll see where they end up. USC so far 69th. Kansas state 2010 52nd (but that's because most teams ran all over them every play)

we pretty much have kansas state, usc and northwestern to go on.

Pitt and Minnesota have better pass defenses than them but I don't think Uconn x2 and USF did

 

[Millhouse]

You're not winning this one. Like I said earlier in the post, you make a statement like this, and most people say you don't want him on the team and you never want anyone to throw to him. They can't look past the stats and see that when he catches 10 passes for 100 yards, we only score about 10-17 points and lose. Doesn't mean we shouldn't throw to him. Means we should be finding a way to get the better playmakers more involved when teams are targeting them and conceding passes over the middle to Lemon.

i'm used to it

 

[Chip]

Or it could mean that against good defenses, Lemon is the only one on the team who can consistently get open and make catches.

I was really hoping that wasn't the answer. But if it is, can I go back and revise my preseason projections?

 

[rrlbees]

i'm used to it

FWIW, Sales averages 2 ypc more than Lemon over their careers.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Another personel mystery we will likely never have the answer to. Seems we have
about 12 WR on the roster but we have some rule where we can only play 3 at a time and maybe four the entire game.

10 WR.

2 Redshirting (Cornelius and Lewis)
3 Injured (Foster, Kobena, Flemming).
5 Active (Sales, Lemon, West, Clark, Hale?)

 

[sutomcat]

the 5 games are minnesota 2012 (25th pass defense so far), south florida 2011 (83rd in 2011), uconn 2011 (113th), pitt 2010 (19th), and connecticut 2009 (88th)

average pass defense ranking of those teams is 68th, slightly below average

now granted, sales isn't lighting up the 85 bears. i'll get those numbers. i suspect the average is lower.

northwestern so far is 112th but that's because we lit them up - we'll see where they end up. USC so far 69th. Kansas state 2010 52nd (but that's because most teams ran all over them every play)

we pretty much have kansas state, usc and northwestern to go on.

Pitt and Minnesota have better pass defenses than them but I don't think Uconn x2 and USF did

I didn't say passing defense. I said defense. I think a good defense against the run encourages Syracuse to throw the ball more and tends to inflate the number of catches Alec and other receivers might make.

If you look at total defense, here are the rankings:

Minnesota 2012 21st
USF 2011 39th
UConn 2011 51st
Pittsburgh 2010 8th
UConn 2009 62nd

UConn is a little different. They play press coverage on defense almost exclusively and Alec has been the only guy on the team good at beating it.

Alec has been bigger, stronger and faster than the other WRs on the team most of his career, is more physical and is better at getting open than the others. It is no surprise he gets a lot of touches when the rest of the offense has been stopped. He has been the best option in those situations and his career reception totals reflect that.

 

[JeremyCuse]

10 WR.

2 Redshirting (Cornelius and Lewis)
3 Injured (Foster, Kobena, Flemming).
5 Active (Sales, Lemon, West, Clark, Hale?)

LOL thanks, I should have known better then to exaggerate on a thread you are following. Theres a reason I go to you everytime I cant recall something about SU, you have a gift my friend.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If you add in Funderburk and Macauley Hill, you get to 12. So you weren't that far off.

I don't even know if Hale is healthy. He hasn't played yet.

 

[ForeverOrange]

Yeah, but he's not going to get much bigger, he's already a junior. And all defenses are physical. At least physical enough to beat up a 160 lb guy. He had a rough start against NW, but pulled it together to run a great route/great catch later in the game. No one stretches the field right now with Kobena out, and he has game experience, so I think we should use him for what we brought him here for. Otherwise, I'm not sure why we brought him here.

Agreed, the kid seems to be a gamer, and like you said, he's already a Jr., if your not going to use him, then why bring him in? We have to have faith in our players to make plays.

 

[Millhouse]

I didn't say passing defense. I said defense. I think a good defense against the run encourages Syracuse to throw the ball more and tends to inflate the number of catches Alec and other receivers might make.

If you look at total defense, here are the rankings:

Minnesota 2012 21st
USF 2011 39th
UConn 2011 51st
Pittsburgh 2010 8th
UConn 2009 62nd

UConn is a little different. They play press coverage on defense almost exclusively and Alec has been the only guy on the team good at beating it.

Alec has been bigger, stronger and faster than the other WRs on the team most of his career, is more physical and is better at getting open than the others. It is no surprise he gets a lot of touches when the rest of the offense has been stopped. He has been the best option in those situations and his career reception totals reflect that.

fair enough

let's look at defensive yards per attempt

Minnesota 2012 so far 6th
USF 2011 37th
UConn 2011 98th
Pitt 2010 16th
Uconn 2009 86th

I'm skeptical that Uconn's magic press coverage was good enough to shut down everyone on SU not named Lemon but terrible against everyone else.

opposing qb rating
Minnesota 2012 so far 11th
USF 2011 41th
UConn 2011 70th
Pitt 2010 22th
Uconn 2009 85th

qb ratings aren't skewed by attempts so having a good run defense doesn't hurt you there. That averages out to 46th.

these defenses aren't thaaat good

i think that when Nassib faces a decent defensive line, he gets happy feet, doesn't see the field and locks onto Lemon because he's always been there

 

[OttoinGrotto]

10 WR.

2 Redshirting (Cornelius and Lewis)
3 Injured (Foster, Kobena, Flemming).
5 Active (Sales, Lemon, West, Clark, Hale?)

Yeah, where is Hale?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[sutomcat]

fair enough

let's look at defensive yards per attempt

Minnesota 2012 so far 6th
USF 2011 37th
UConn 2011 98th
Pitt 2010 16th
Uconn 2009 86th

I'm skeptical that Uconn's magic press coverage was good enough to shut down everyone on SU not named Lemon but terrible against everyone else.

opposing qb rating
Minnesota 2012 so far 11th
USF 2011 41th
UConn 2011 70th
Pitt 2010 22th
Uconn 2009 85th

qb ratings aren't skewed by attempts so having a good run defense doesn't hurt you there. That averages out to 46th.

these defenses aren't thaaat good

i think that when Nassib faces a decent defensive line, he gets happy feet, doesn't see the field and locks onto Lemon because he's always been there

I agree with you on this. Against good defenses, Nassib often has no option but Lemon to throw to.

Bottom line, when we fall behind, we tend to pass. When we pass, we tend to pass to our best player.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the distribution of receptions the rest of the season. I think Lemon and Sales will end up pretty close in terms of receptions, yards and TDs.

 

[SmilinBob]

Or Nassib doesn't have as much time against good D's and Lemon is the first one open. I'd love to see how Nassib and the wr's would do if Nassib has a lot of time to pass.

 

[Millhouse]

I agree with you on this. Against good defenses, Nassib often has no option but Lemon to throw to.

Bottom line, when we fall behind, we tend to pass. When we pass, we tend to pass to our best player.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the distribution of receptions the rest of the season. I think Lemon and Sales will end up pretty close in terms of receptions, yards and TDs.

You put words in my mouth.

I didn't say that Nassib has no option but Lemon to throw to.

I said, "I think that when Nassib faces a decent defensive line, he gets happy feet, doesn't see the field and locks onto Lemon because he's always been there"

You and SWC are quite the pair making up stuff I clearly didn't say.

 

[Chip]

You put words in my mouth.

I didn't say that Nassib has no option but Lemon to throw to.

I said, "I think that when Nassib faces a decent defensive line, he gets happy feet, doesn't see the field and locks onto Lemon because he's always been there"

You and SWC are quite the pair making up stuff I clearly didn't say.

USC keyed on Lemon (per one of the articles I read, I think Rahme), and Sales had a big day. Offense scored 4 TDs and a FG. Minnesota keyed on Sales, and we had 3 points until they loosened up at the end.

If I were a future defensive coordinator, I know what I would do. Can our offensive minds adjust to still score enough points? Eliminating mistakes is a good start. Will it be enough?