Do you think Boeheim has a set retirement date that he will stick to?

[FrancoPizza]

Half the teams lose every night playing man.

But at least they’ll go down fighting. 100% zone is bringing a rosary to a gun fight. You pray they’re gonna miss.

 

[Nicknack]

I doubt there would be a lot of discussion about zone if we had more talent. The zone can still be effective, but we're not fielding the same talent as we used to during our good years. Yes, I'm a believer in mixing it up and not being so damn predictable, but talent is our biggest issue. I think Jim can still coach, and I think the zone (while I'd like m2m at times) can still be effective if we had the damn talent that we used to get.

2 big questions come to my mind about where we are... why has recruiting been down and why a continued reliance on zone 100% of the time making us so predictable? It's hard for me to come with an answer other than effort, which is sad.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I doubt there would be a lot of discussion about zone if we had more talent.

We’ll never know with JB but all signs point to the zone not being as effective as it was 10 years ago, regardless of the talent. I’d guess the 2011-12 team would lose 6-7 games simply because teams are better equipped to execute against it. And the 2010 team honestly would get destroyed on D. Think every team executing like Pitino’s Louisville.

 

[Scooch]

And we can't do it if we continue to play zone; zone is a recruitment killer.

I don't think that's it. We should mix up our D more, 100%. But if the next HC wanted to play, say, 60% zone and 40% 'other' it'd be fine. That's not why our recruiting has suffered.

Recruiting has suffered because we don't employ any great recruiters.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Scooch]

I doubt there would be a lot of discussion about zone if we had more talent. The zone can still be effective, but we're not fielding the same talent as we used to during our good years. Yes, I'm a believer in mixing it up and not being so damn predictable, but talent is our biggest issue. I think Jim can still coach, and I think the zone (while I'd like m2m at times) can still be effective if we had the damn talent that we used to get.

2 big questions come to my mind about where we are... why has recruiting been down and why a continued reliance on zone 100% of the time making us so predictable? It's hard for me to come with an answer other than effort, which is sad.

I agree completely.

As to the bolded question... it is because we don't have great recruiters on staff. That's it. That's the answer.

We replaced our lone great recruiter with a guy.

 

[RF2044]

I don't think that's it. We should mix up our D more, 100%. But if the next HC wanted to play, say, 60% zone and 40% 'other' it'd be fine. That's not why our recruiting has suffered.

Recruiting has suffered because we don't employ any great recruiters.

It's not rocket science.

I'll one up that -- 90/10.

But you have to have another pitch to mix things up once the opposition starts to figure things out. Generally speaking, we don't.

No defense is impregnable, so the notion that zone or man are "right" or "wrong" is flawed. But playing only one style without being able to switch to something else that is effective creates risk, and delimits what you can do defensively.

I loathe Pitino, but loved [from a basketball standpoint, not that I rooted for it when he used it against us] how he mixed in a 1-3-1 press after made baskets, to go with the 2-3 zone. It was an effective technique for throwing teams off-guard, not allowing them to settle into a groove playing only against one type of defense, and often forced teams [at minimum] to burn shot clock advancing the ball -- if not outright generating turnovers.

 

[Cuse181]

I know nothing about any of this is good but JB taking such an extreme shot at Weitsman and saying he doesn't give us anything might be the worst.

If you are Adam how do you feel right now about your investment in SU Athletics and the lack of appreciation being shown to you in return?

He claims he’s doing it for the community, not JB, so he shouldn’t care.

 

[RF2044]

I agree completely.

As to the bolded question... it is because we don't have great recruiters on staff. That's it. That's the answer.

We replaced our lone great recruiter with a guy.

This is one of the reasons I've bristled at the notion that the next HC should come from someone already on the bench. Would be a horrible idea, for the reasons you point out.

 

[Brooky03]

I’ve always been somewhat fascinated by the idea that the zone hurts players’ m2m ability.

They play m2m their whole life, play zone for a year or two, then forget how to play m2m? Chasing guys across the court and defending the pick and roll slightly differently, everything else remaining essentially identical, stunts their growth?

 

[Brooky03]

I know nothing about any of this is good but JB taking such an extreme shot at Weitsman and saying he doesn't give us anything might be the worst.

If you are Adam how do you feel right now about your investment in SU Athletics and the lack of appreciation being shown to you in return?

It was a calculated comment. This is business. I’m guessing the billionaire understands business.

 

[Jake]

I'm far from a recuitnik, so I was just doing some homework...

According to 247sports, in the past six seasons (starting with the incoming 2017 class through 2022) we've brought in 3 high schoolers who were ranked in their top 100.

In the six seasons prior to that (2011-2016) we brought in 15.

That's the problem, and that's why we need to go outside the current staff for our next HC.

I agree…..one caveat though. Recruiting to Syracuse got harder with the move to the ACC….it got much harder when players sharing the same last name of the coach said they were coming….and it’s damn near impossible now.

I’m not sure what Red and GMAC could do in a different environment. Maybe better, maybe worse.

 

[phil77]

I agree…..one caveat though. Recruiting to Syracuse got harder with the move to the ACC….it got much harder when players sharing the same last name of the coach said they were coming….and it’s damn near impossible now.

I’m not sure what Red and GMAC could do in a different environment. Maybe better, maybe worse.

Give me Sean Miller or give me nobody Sean Miller will be able to get talent in here I am 100% sure of that.

 

[Scooch]

I agree…..one caveat though. Recruiting to Syracuse got harder with the move to the ACC….it got much harder when players sharing the same last name of the coach said they were coming….and it’s damn near impossible now.

I’m not sure what Red and GMAC could do in a different environment. Maybe better, maybe worse.

Can you elaborate on our recruiting difficulty in joining the ACC? I don't get that. For years northeast high schoolers have gone to ACC schools - Duke and UNC most notably, but many others as well (hello Kenny Anderson, Stephon Marbury and Georgia Tech).

I'm not saying it isn't true, I just don't understand why? Especially when we landed top 100 guys like Chris McCullough, Malachi, Lydon, . Howard, Battle, T. Thompson, etc. after we joined the ACC (but before Hop left).

 

[Grbac]

Give me Sean Miller or give me nobody Sean Miller will be able to get talent in here I am 100% sure of that.

I think Sean Miller is a terrific coach. But are you not worried about the perception of being a cheater. Any amount of success we achieve with Miller would be met with “Probably cheating”.
I don’t think that’s something we want to deal with.
I’m all for second chances and even third chances depending. But when you are talking about a national brand, perception is everything.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The HC is the CEO and runs the show. If anything outside of his control has impeded the ability to field a top-25 team for nearly a decade it's still because he hasn't been able to adjust to changing conditions. Maybe JAB needs to read Jocko Willink's book.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I think Sean Miller is a terrific coach. But are you not worried about the perception of being a cheater. Any amount of success we achieve with Miller would be met with “Probably cheating”.
I don’t think that’s something we want to deal with.
I’m all for second chances and even third chances depending. But when you are talking about a national brand, perception is everything.

I have no opinion but what he was accused of doing would it not be considered cheating today. I honest don’t know and I’m too lazy to google

 

[Bayside44]

I think Sean Miller is a terrific coach. But are you not worried about the perception of being a cheater. Any amount of success we achieve with Miller would be met with “Probably cheating”.
I don’t think that’s something we want to deal with.
I’m all for second chances and even third chances depending. But when you are talking about a national brand, perception is everything.

I think the JB probations are bunk and have said so, but if it was good enough before don't see why it should change going forward considering many of the rules are now different.

 

[phil77]

I think Sean Miller is a terrific coach. But are you not worried about the perception of being a cheater. Any amount of success we achieve with Miller would be met with “Probably cheating”.
I don’t think that’s something we want to deal with.
I’m all for second chances and even third chances depending. But when you are talking about a national brand, perception is everything.

We are not in a position to throw stones when we live in a glass house. How do we has a group look down on other coaches that went through things off the court but support our own coach and want him to stay when he has had wins stripped away and not given back and has had this program on probation twice. Like now we are going to have the gold standard??? Seems very hypocritical.

If we are so concerned about our national brand and perception then why is JB still our coach? This last week couldn't have been more embarrassing.

On Sean Miller his passed dealings now should be working in his favor. What was once against the rules now lives in the new NIL rules. Why would that be a negative? He already knows how to deal in that world. Already has connections in that world. That should be a bonus now when adding a coach. His ability to navigate and embrace the NIL world should be something we are looking for if we are looking to be a powerhouse again and return our University back to the top.

 

[Grbac]

We are not in a position to throw stones when we live in a glass house. How do we has a group look down on other coaches that went through things off the court but support our own coach and want him to stay when he has had wins stripped away and not given back and has had this program on probation twice. Like now we are going to have the gold standard??? Seems very hypocritical.

If we are so concerned about our national brand and perception then why is JB still our coach? This last week couldn't have been more embarrassing.

On Sean Miller his passed dealings now should be working in his favor. What was once against the rules now lives in the new NIL rules. Why would that be a negative? He already knows how to deal in that world. Already has connections in that world. That should be a bonus now when adding a coach. His ability to navigate and embrace the NIL world should be something we are looking for if we are looking to be a powerhouse again and return our University back to the top.

I get the whole throwing stones thing. I know it’s hypocritical. JB should have been gone long ago. But I just don’t see us going after a guy like Sean Miller. They were doing a lot of very bad stuff at Arizona. Straight up paying for players is still not legal. Buying fake transcripts is definitely not legal. Which I know the assistants were charged with all that but Miller was still the HC.

Just because we are making a big mistake by hanging onto JB doesn’t mean we should just double down and hire another rule breaker. Just my opinion.

 

[Newhouser]

I get the whole throwing stones thing. I know it’s hypocritical. JB should have been gone long ago. But I just don’t see us going after a guy like Sean Miller. They were doing a lot of very bad stuff at Arizona. Straight up paying for players is still not legal. Buying fake transcripts is definitely not legal. Which I know the assistants were charged with all that but Miller was still the HC.

Just because we are making a big mistake by hanging onto JB doesn’t mean we should just double down and hire another rule breaker. Just my opinion.

I agree and he is a good coach but he isn't John Wooden. We can find just as qualified without the baggage.

 

[Cusefan0307]

From my standpoint I've thought for a few years that JB is the biggest problem with recruiting. Not the assistants. He does not put in the same work other HC's have the past five or six years.

 

[RF2044]

From my standpoint I've thought for a few years that JB is the biggest problem with recruiting. Not the assistants. He does not put in the same work other HC's have the past five or six years.

That is indisputably true.

But as for the ACs, there is no data / evidence to back up your claim. I'm 100% not directing this at you specifically, but it comes across as wishful thinking. Maybe they'd do better if JB stepped aside, but maybe they wouldn't. The results are what they are -- and recruiting has slipped.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That is indisputably true.

But as for the ACs, there is no data / evidence to back up your claim. I'm 100% not directing this at you specifically, but it comes across as wishful thinking. Maybe they'd do better if JB stepped aside, but maybe they wouldn't. The results are what they are -- and recruiting has slipped.

I’m sorry, but when you have an assistant as the main recruiter going up against Calipari then Calipari is going to win every time. It’s happened multiple years over the past 5 or 6 seasons.

JB is not the same guy who showed up on Melo’s doorstep.

 

[Cusefan69]

I want a HC who flat out can embrace the new landscape and has the energy to do it every day. If he is weak on the x's and o's you simply hire an experienced assistant to help there. I also remember when Syracuse had long and athletic players that made the zone a weapon. Those teams also would in spurts after a basket go into a full court press, into a M2M and then switch back to zone on inbounds play. Our teams used to run occasionally a half court trap as well. No need for us to talk in absolutes m2m or zone. Bring in long athletes and be multiple.

 

[RF2044]

I’m sorry, but when you have an assistant as the main recruiter going up against Calipari then Calipari is going to win every time. It’s happened multiple years over the past 5 or 6 seasons.

JB is not the same guy who showed up on Melo’s doorstep.

Sorry about what? I agree with that statement. I agree that JB hasn't pounded the pavement the way he's needed to, or the way he used to. I've been immensely critical of him for that over the years, when the slippage became a disconcerting trend.

But I don't think that sending GMac as a head coach against Calipari is going to work, either. Same for Red.

And neither of their track records on the recruiting trail suggest otherwise, despite what some want to project.

Scooch pegged this correctly.