Does a high powered offense win out?

Discussion in 'Syracuse Football Board' started by chakka3421, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. chakka3421

    chakka3421 All Conference

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    3,674
    Given a high powered offense versus a high powered defense that we saw in the game last night, it reminded me to a lessor extend how we have bounced back and forth for the last 15 years since Coach P. Grob=D, DM=O, SS=D and now DFB=O.

    Obviously you need both to a certain extent to make the playoffs but throughout those years I remember hearing myself saying different things like under DM, "Ryan's got this (especially the Missouri game)" to SS years, "punt because the D can stop them".

    Given the game last night against that Bama D (so few teams can field a D like that), my gut tells me you need a high powered O favored over a high powered D like Bama to be in the game and win (Clemson really should have won last year too).

    I was never confident that Bama's O could score even though they did as it was more about "game management". But everyone was confident that their D could stop Clemson. However, when Clemson had the ball I was confident in their O to score.

    So the long short of it, I prefer DFB's offense more as defensive minded teams (along with our previous D HCs) will cause them to get tired and we will have better chances to win than we have a D minded coach that runs a weak O. Obviously our D needs to improve but they can only get better from here on out.

    Anyway, that was an amazing game last night seeing the different styles in place on such a high level! Nuff said - really looking forward to next season to start! Until then, Go Cuse!
     
  2. Orangepace

    Orangepace KoW

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,819
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    Not a black and white answer. I personally would venture to say that last night's game was not won by Clemson's offense or lost by Alabama's defense. Both are and were great, but the game was won by Clemson's defense and lost by Alabama's offense.

    Alabama's freshman QB will be a really good one, but his youth showed last night through his inability to go through progressions. Clemson pressured him and as soon as he felt it, he no longer looked downfield. The TD to the TE was an absolutely fantastic call that kept them in it, but didn't make up for going 0-12 on 3rd down to close a tight game.
     
  3. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,595
    Likes Received:
    20,409
    it's just one game but that was not a good night for the run and stop the run crowd
     
  4. OrangePA

    OrangePA Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    7,521
    Likes Received:
    7,402

    That's a pretty high powered Clemson defense.
     
  5. RF2044

    RF2044 Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,158
    Likes Received:
    37,321
    Cool topic.

    Good thing is, offense / defense are not mutually exclusive. I'd much rather have a good offense and a decent defense than a great defense and a decent offense.

    I'm quite confident that we'll end up having a terrific offense. Hope the defensive production improves over time, so that we can play top teams in bowls and hold our own.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  6. OrangeTarheel

    OrangeTarheel Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,848
    Likes Received:
    1,622
    During the broadcast the announcers said Clemson wanted to hit 80 plays on offense because after that Alabama's defense would wear down. Don't know if I saw that necessarily, I think Clemson's offense got more confident, but that was the alleged strategy.

    Also think that running more plays is an overall advantage to the offensive coordinator. Gives the defensive coordinator more they have to consider in terms of data points and offense has a good data set for what will work.
     
    chakka3421 and TheCusian like this.
  7. Sudano

    Sudano Scout Team

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    286
    A 35-31 game with the TD scored with 1 second on the clock is a whole bunch of shades of gray and small incremental points and randomness and much less about bold black and white definitive statements. Great game.
     
    MiniCuse, chakka3421, Doc5120 and 3 others like this.
  8. NineOneSeven

    NineOneSeven Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    13,693
    Likes Received:
    18,683
    There are a lot of ways to win big time games. That's what I took away from this. I think great offense beats great defense most of the time.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  9. FrancoPizza

    FrancoPizza Starter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    2,127
    Not to mention, Clemson WRs had some unreal catches to keep the chains moving. Absolutely unreal athleticism.
     
  10. Lou_C

    Lou_C Scout Team

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    931
    Well, a great offense is going to get it's licks in on even the greatest defenses. But as far as "high powered offenses" that too is a gray area. There's "high powered offense" as a philosophy, in terms of tempo, stressing the defense, chunk plays, etc. And there's "high powered offense" defined by having a generational talent at QB and NFL WRs all over the field.

    2013 FSU was the most productive offense of all time, and it was very slow in terms of tempo. It just out-talented and out-executed everyone.

    Clemson effectively married the two...incredible offensive talent AND they deployed it in a way that really let them squeeze every drop out of it. But I still think it was more about the caliber of players. Astounding physical plays by the likes of Cain, Williams, Leggit and of course Watson were the difference.
     
  11. Newhouser

    Newhouser 2nd String

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    869
    Likes Received:
    1,127
    with today's rules - offense is going to win more than defense.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  12. Sudano

    Sudano Scout Team

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    286
    1 play of over 150? plays falls differently and someone will definitively say a great Defense is always best. Both teams are great.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  13. FrancoPizza

    FrancoPizza Starter

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    2,127
    Mainly because offensive pass interference never gets called. They should just go old school Madden and let the WR and DB just go at it.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  14. Sudano

    Sudano Scout Team

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    286
    Close games by two great teams don't easily lend themselves to definitive statements like this.
    All I know is Clemson won last night.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  15. OttoinGrotto

    OttoinGrotto 2016 Iggy Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    18,650
    Likes Received:
    28,111
    It's very simple.

    On offense, you're in control. You make the choices.

    On defense, you're reactive. You counter.

    The great coach Jimmy McGinty said that winners always want the ball when the game is on the line. There's a reason why he said that.
     
  16. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,595
    Likes Received:
    20,409
    yards per play
    offense
    bama 22nd
    clemson 34th

    defense
    bama 1st
    clemson 5th

    I bet their yards per play goes down because they have such big leads and don't bother taking chances. i bet if you did first half only, both would be further toward the top in both. to get to the national championship you have to be good at everything, great at something, and a little lucky


    if you take each teams rank in yards per play O and D and rank the average of them, you get this (just the top 25)

    Name Rank
    Louisville 1
    Washington 2
    LSU 3
    Alabama 3
    Western Kentucky 5
    Miami (Florida) 6
    Clemson 7
    Boise State 8
    San Diego State 8
    Penn State 10
    Ohio State 11
    Middle Tennessee 12
    Appalachian State 12
    Temple 14
    North Carolina 15
    Florida State 15
    Auburn 17
    Michigan 18
    USC 19
    Old Dominion 20
    Louisiana Tech 21
    Toledo 22
    Oklahoma 23
    South Florida 23
    West Virginia 25
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  17. CIL

    CIL Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    4,120
    Those two teams were there because they had loads more talent than anyone else.

    Clemson happened to have the more seasoned QB.
     
    chakka3421, RMH44 and longislandcuse like this.
  18. upperdeck

    upperdeck Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,615
    Likes Received:
    4,292
    I dont think that ALA QB ever becomes much more than he is now.. I nice athlete playing with a power oline and really good RBs.

    Still Ala dumbed it down on offense so much it allowed Clem to hang around and let their athletes make plays . It also should be noted that Watkins threw 3-4 balls that should have been intercepted and the WR saved another TD on the fumble or the game likely is over mid 3rd even with the avg QB play for Ala.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  19. longislandcuse

    longislandcuse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    20,450
    Likes Received:
    20,769
    It's all about talent. Last night was the ultimate "stars matter" game.

    There's no one and done rule so you can't have a team of upperclassmen make a run like in CBB. Clemson and Bama are recruiting absolute studs lately and that is why they've played each other two years in a row for the Title.
     
    chakka3421 and CIL like this.
  20. TheCusian

    TheCusian Living Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    14,463
    Likes Received:
    15,750
    Allow me to repeat myself: the gap between Watson and Hurts is bigger than the gap between the two defenses.

    Give me the better QB and a top 10 defense, all day every day.
     
    chakka3421 and RMH44 like this.
  21. Pyle

    Pyle All Conference

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    2,025
    Likes Received:
    2,388
    Jimmy McGinty wasn't qualified to do more than coach a bunch of has-beens and never was's.
    Oh and strippers don't make good cheerleaders either, not in real life anyway lol.
     
    chakka3421 and OttoinGrotto like this.
  22. Ish88888

    Ish88888 All Conference

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    1,873
    True, the way to beat saban is match him up front and have a very good qb. Saban loses to qbs...manziel, cam, chad kelly, etc. Offenses that spread them out do well. Also, the qbs in tbe sec, minus kelly, are a joke. This is why bama bullies the sec.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  23. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,595
    Likes Received:
    20,409
    most teams want to shorten the game as much as possible vs bama to make the beating look less bad, makes sense that they might wear down
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  24. upperdeck

    upperdeck Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,615
    Likes Received:
    4,292
    the coaches show even made a point of why Clemson was struggling some early.. They were so used to being better they didnt know how to run plays when they werent. bama is much the same.. they played a team that could be physical with them and now they actually have to make plays. I think the play calling let them down last night and they tried to do too much with the QB who was so used to teams have to stack the box and have WR running open. They never really ran the QB zone read like they did against Auburn , the few times they really ran the ball the RB ran well until he got dinged..

    Didnt they also lose a big TE in the Wash game?
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  25. Ish88888

    Ish88888 All Conference

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    1,873
    Actually, just the opposite. Teams with capable qbs, spread offensive concepts, and decent defensive lines can play with saban. He never has a great qb, but rather great olines and big rbs. Teams with capable qbs and strong fronts give him fits. Most teams in the sec don't have a very good qb.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.