1. If you are getting script errors or redirects, please click here and switch to the "Alternate Style." You can dismiss this notice by clicking the little x at the top right of this box. If you still have a problem, email me at: tom@emery.net
    Dismiss Notice

Does a high powered offense win out?

Discussion in 'Syracuse Football Board' started by chakka3421, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Pyle

    Pyle Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,825
    Likes Received:
    2,062
    Jimmy McGinty wasn't qualified to do more than coach a bunch of has-beens and never was's.
    Oh and strippers don't make good cheerleaders either, not in real life anyway lol.
     
    chakka3421 and OttoinGrotto like this.
  2. Ish88888

    Ish88888 Starter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    1,325
    True, the way to beat saban is match him up front and have a very good qb. Saban loses to qbs...manziel, cam, chad kelly, etc. Offenses that spread them out do well. Also, the qbs in tbe sec, minus kelly, are a joke. This is why bama bullies the sec.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  3. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,418
    Likes Received:
    19,932
    most teams want to shorten the game as much as possible vs bama to make the beating look less bad, makes sense that they might wear down
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  4. upperdeck

    upperdeck Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    7,724
    Likes Received:
    3,576
    the coaches show even made a point of why Clemson was struggling some early.. They were so used to being better they didnt know how to run plays when they werent. bama is much the same.. they played a team that could be physical with them and now they actually have to make plays. I think the play calling let them down last night and they tried to do too much with the QB who was so used to teams have to stack the box and have WR running open. They never really ran the QB zone read like they did against Auburn , the few times they really ran the ball the RB ran well until he got dinged..

    Didnt they also lose a big TE in the Wash game?
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  5. Ish88888

    Ish88888 Starter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    1,325
    Actually, just the opposite. Teams with capable qbs, spread offensive concepts, and decent defensive lines can play with saban. He never has a great qb, but rather great olines and big rbs. Teams with capable qbs and strong fronts give him fits. Most teams in the sec don't have a very good qb.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  6. longislandcuse

    longislandcuse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    17,361
    Likes Received:
    16,316
  7. kcsu

    kcsu All American

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,111
    Likes Received:
    5,052
    I have never understood why having a high powered O or strong D equates to have the other side of the ball weak. My two cents is that O or D minded head coaches for some strange reason dont hire great coordinators for the other side.
    Dino has Ward who has decent credentials but im sure that there are many available DC's that could provide an upgrade.
    With the talent we have coming back on D i would expect a significant improvement next year. If not i wouldn't be surprised to see a change.
     
    chakka3421 and SoBristol like this.
  8. SoBristol

    SoBristol All Conference

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,156
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    There has to be significant improvement on D, and there should be. Way too young in the D-line in 2016, and not much talent in the secondary -- has to be better, with everyone back in the D units except Wilson and Winfield. Sprinkle in a few more of Babers' recruits and revamp that secondary and maybe the defense can help keep us in games.

    I am amazed that Dino rarely talks defense, other than to say we need Elephants on both sides of the ball.
     
    chakka3421 and RMH44 like this.
  9. Doc5120

    Doc5120 2nd String

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    963
    It didn't help that Scarbrough broke a bone in his leg in the 3rd quarter. I think he was missed down the stretch. Watson is an NFL QB, and Clemson is loaded with skill guys. I hesitate to say offense or defense necessarily wins championships. In this case though, offense proved to win out. I think the difference was an experienced NFL ready QB on one side and a true frosh on the other who is a little one dimensional at this stage.
     
    chakka3421 and Louie and Bouie like this.
  10. RMH44

    RMH44 All American

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    4,047
    HCDB, for one, would vehemently disagree and has stated as much on more than one occasion.

    Possessing the ability to run the ball and, conversely, to stop the run has absolutely nothing to do with an offense's designation as "high powered".

    Baylor is always used as the gold standard for our offense. BU actually runs (628 x 3371 yds...5.0 yds/rush) the ball more than they pass (480 x 3652 yds) while averaging 34.6 points/game.

    Meanwhile SU ran the ball 449 x 1786 yds (3.2yds/rush) and passed the ball 522 x 3855 yds yet only 25.7 points/game. This total includes the outlier against Pitt.

    Until we develop the ability to consistently run the ball we'll continue to struggle against good defenses. Moving the sticks is imperative when playing an uptempo offense. Otherwise, you wear down your own defense.

    Imo, we need major upgrades along the OL and the RB position. we have to find a way to keep opposing LB's honest. As HCDB says elephants and hippos are King of the jungle.

    Another quick thought...having a high powered offense and a very good defense aren't mutually exclusive. There absolutely no reason we can't develop a top 20-40 defense on a consistent basis here. It's been done in the recent past.
     
    chakka3421 and 721Comstock like this.
  11. 721Comstock

    721Comstock Starter

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Likes Received:
    4,353
    Well - they kinda are.
    The high powered O leads to more possessions - for both teams.

    Which means the D then needs to defend more plays, and then gives up more yards and points, even if they are "better" on a per-play basis.

    It's simple math.

    Very hard to have a top-rated D, when every one of their opponents is getting more plays and possessions against them, than most other programs.

    We can definitely improve on D quite a bit, but because D rankings are all based on "counting stats", and the #'s against ours are absolutely going to be higher because of how the O works, then it becomes very, very hard to move to the upper end of the rankings.
     
    chakka3421 and RMH44 like this.
  12. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,418
    Likes Received:
    19,932
    i was just saying that clemson couldn't run and alabama ran for a ton
     
    chakka3421 and RMH44 like this.
  13. RMH44

    RMH44 All American

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    4,047
    You're assuming that "high powered" equals big plays and low time of possession. That's not necessarily the case when you can move the sticks with a balanced attack using an up tempo, no huddle scheme.

    The worst possible scenario is 3 and outs resulting from 3 incomplete passes that stop the clock each time. This happened waaaaay too often last season and completely wears down the defense.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  14. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,418
    Likes Received:
    19,932
    it's very hard to do against good competition. we face tradeoffs in how we spend coaching dollars. if your defense has to practice against a unique offense, they might suffer. teams who don't face monetary tradeoffs and who are immensely talented can run a more vanilla offense for your defense to practice against and still end up near the top in both.

    these are the teams that were top 40 in yards per play on offense and defense

    Louisville
    Washington
    LSU
    Alabama
    Western Kentucky
    Miami (Florida)
    Clemson
    Boise State
    San Diego State
    Penn State
    Appalachian State
    Florida State
    Auburn

    These teams are top 30

    Louisville
    Washington
    LSU
    Alabama
    Miami (Florida)
    San Diego State
    Penn State

    Here are the teams that were top 20 in both
    Louisville
    Washington
    LSU

    It's tough to do it in one year, much less consistently
     
    chakka3421 and 721Comstock like this.
  15. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,418
    Likes Received:
    19,932
    you can only go 3 and out so slowly. your defense will get tired if you go three and out running the ball
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  16. TheCusian

    TheCusian Living Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    13,511
    Likes Received:
    14,148
    He talks D plenty.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  17. Millhouse

    Millhouse Living Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    23,418
    Likes Received:
    19,932
    not as much as chip
     
    chakka3421 and TheCusian like this.
  18. 721Comstock

    721Comstock Starter

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Likes Received:
    4,353
    No, I'm not assuming anything.

    Even IF the O is very efficient, and often scores on long, time-consuming drives - there are going to be lots of times they don't.
    Either because they scored quickly - YAY!, or because they went 3-and-out - BOO!

    So - the opponents are likely to get more possessions and plays against our D.
    Period.

    [​IMG]
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  19. RMH44

    RMH44 All American

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    4,047
    Completely agree and didn't mean to imply otherwise. It's obvious to anyone with a clue that the opponent will also have more possessions. Still doesn't excuse lousy defense.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.
  20. RMH44

    RMH44 All American

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    4,047
    Agreed, I was describing the worst case scenario.

    My point is, if you have the ability to run the ball successfully your offense should be much more efficient which, in turn, moves the sticks.
     
    chakka3421 likes this.