Does anybody still think Edwards...

[DoctorBombay]

Don’t tell me to stop just because my opinion doesn’t agree with yours and a select few others. This is a board for discussion. And as far as you grading that player vs me what makes you so much more qualified. And ppl above were saying he should have been a starter which i said I disagree with based off his past performance. He wasn’t very good earlier in the season nor last year and didn’t deserve those type of mins. That’s my opinion and sorry if you disagree but quite frankly tough s****.

I mentioned in a previous post he should have gotten 5-7 mins more often to prove himself and gain experience. Also the JE we saw out there tonight does deserve starter minutes but the problem is this is really the first time I’ve seen him play that well outside of a stretch vs Miami. In two years this was the best game he has played by far and I’ve given him praise. Why your jumping down my throat about this idk. If you want to anoint him the savior at the 5 that’s totally fine your entitled to your opinion but I won’t.

Lastly, I really hope he has turned a corner. If he has it is going to pay major dividends for us going forward. He seems like a good kid and I root for everyone on the team no matter what unlike some ppl on this board but just because I’m rooting for him doesn’t mean I won’t give my honest opinion of what I think of his game.

You're not seeing the point, IMO. If you're basing your opinion on a couple of H0T Takes that suggest Jesse should've been the starter all along, that POV is at the very extreme end of the spectrum.
The real issue is that JB has painted a picture of a guy who'd likely do a faceplant at center court if he let him see the floor. And because of that illogic, we've been forced to play a 165lb Marek at the 5 position, which has been an exercise in futility to anyone with eyes...except HCJB.
Yet every time Jesse has had a chance to play through his mistakes, take his lumps, and just...play- he's shown he can contribute. Not start, but contribute- even for a few minutes.
So to suggest as you seemed to do that "he had his chances earlier in the year' and didn't produce, is not entirely accurate. He hardly played...at all. A few minutes spot duty every 5th game is not a legit "chance" to show anything. But I'm not a HOF'er, so what do I know?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

He played 48 minutes the entire season before last Saturday.
What are you talking about.
He played 23 of those 48 on 1-19 against Miami.

He never got a chance in games.
Between the Miami game and last Saturday he played 5 minutes in 3 games.

Edwards didn’t get a chance on the court.

Exactly right. He made a pretty significant step up just from the last game to this one. Just that little bit of experience in the last game was a developmental step. If he had had that earlier in the season, he'd be a few steps better than he is now.

Absolutely, earlier on—given two minutes per game every three games—he looked... not so good. But, he was only going to get better by actually playing.

And good gravy—the difference in the game with an actual center... When he fouled out, NC just went right back to scoring easily at the rim. Jesse prevented easy rebounds for them. He prevented easy second-chance points. He rebounded, he got a steal or two. He poked the ball away a couple of times. He was a center.

 

[PhatOrange]

Mind boggling

 

[Cusesky8214]

 

[StPeteOrang]

You're not seeing the point, IMO. If you're basing your opinion on a couple of H0T Takes that suggest Jesse should've been the starter all along, that POV is on the very extreme end of the spectrum.
The real issue is that JB has painted a picture of a guy who'd likely do a faceplant at center court if he let him see the floor. And because of that illogic . we've been forced to play a 165lb Marek at the 5 position which has been an exercise in futility to anyone with eyes...except HCJB.
Yet every time Jesse has had a chance to play through his mistakes, take his lumps, and just...play- he's shown he can contribute.
So to suggest as you seemed to do that "he had his chances earlier in the year' and didn't produce, is not entirely accurate. He hardly played...at all. A few minutes spot duty every 5th game is not a legit "chance" to show anything. But I'm not a HOF'er, so what do I know?

That’s fair but I’m not sure how I’m missing the point. I’ve agreed several times now that he should of been getting around 5-7 mins a game at least. I was merely responding to a few posts of ppl saying he should have been starting/getting major minutes. But again, from the games I watched last year and this year JE didn’t show me much. I thought he played weak down low and wasn’t much help to the team outside of the Miami game. I’m happy to be proved wrong though. Now if he got more mins would he have performed like this earlier? Idk, probably I’d assume but that’s not what I’m addressing at all. I also never mentioned JB at all. I just gave my opinion on what I’ve seen from Edwards so far. I’m sure that the ppl responding to me with such veracity are ppl that have been upset with his coaching this year and tried to take it out on me.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I love reading this again. Ready for what? Ready for....what?

10 mpg? 15? 25? 40? Ready to lead the soldiers of Gondor against the legions of Mordor? Ready to storm Normandy?

 

[SUFan44]

Wasn’t ready early. And development hurt by delay getting to campus. Give the coaches some credit for working with him in December and January so he can contribute in late February and March. In retrospect, the times we went on pause and players worked one on one with their position coaches may have worked in his favor.

Wrong.

 

[Caboose]

It’s crazy ppl are acting like Edwards should have been starting all year. He’s had a few moments here and there but the JE we saw out there tonight looked like a much different player than earlier in the year. Let’s hope he’s turned a corner here because if he has that solves a lot of issues for us.

I honestly don't understand this mindset or take on Edwards. This kind of take purports that Edwards (or anyone in his shoes) suddenly figured out how to be an effective basketball player in a span of two months while riding pine, lol. Listen, the kid would have noticeably improved the team, whether it was in December or now.

He puts multiple people in their correct positions while pushing an ineffective Girard out with less minutes and a blooming star in Kadary in for more minutes. With Kadary in, Buddy also becomes a better shooter, and the guard minutes are spread around allowing for more rest. He honestly changes this team, big time, and I fault this coach for failing to see what has been very obvious to many of us fans for a while now.

 

[SUFan44]

He came to SU as a very raw recruit who played on the IMG "B" team. He was abroad until early in the semester when his visa came through. Not sure he had any training regimen in Holland before he arrived in the fall. Also, for what ever reason, Jon Bol seemed to be Boeheim's #2 center based on practices and Edward's questionable play.

No need to blame the coaching staff here, we should just be happy he's starting to emerge as a legit big man who may help us win a game or two down the stretch. Huge credit to what ever assistant coach works with the bigs. I'm more in the camp of those that think he wasn't playing due to not being ready not some belief that JB just didn't see his obvious talent.

The future is definitely brighter at the center position and we haven't seen what a year of redshirting may do for the 3rd center. Boeheim has repeatedly said "he's not ready" so have to accept that as a fact.

Wrong.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I love reading this again. Ready for what? Ready for...what?

10 mpg? 15? 25? 40? Ready to lead the soldiers of Gondor against the legions of Mordor? Ready to storm Normandy?

Kadary wasn't "ready", until he was. Woody wasn't "ready", until Buddy was out. Jesse wasn't "ready', until Marek got into foul trouble. Anyone see a pattern here?
I see a stubborn old man who's loathe to change his chosen MO in relation to his team. If his mind is made up that Buddy/JG3 play 35+ every game, then that's what'll happen, come hell or high water.
Unless and until he's absolutely FORCED to change, JB will go down with his "ship", and damn the torpedoes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

i said I disagree with based off his past performance. He wasn’t very good earlier in the season nor last year and didn’t deserve those type of mins. That’s my opinion and sorry if you disagree but quite frankly tough s****.

Being objectively wrong isn't an opinion.

It's already been shown to you by multiple people in this thread that Edwards wasn't given any minutes early this season. There's no "past performance" that suggests he wasn't very good earlier this season.

Then you bring in past performance from last season, which actually hurts your argument and makes you sound ridiculous claiming that he wasn't very good then, because his per 40 numbers were 13.8 points, 9.7 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 2.8 blocks on 79% shooting and are actually really, really good.

Tough s**** indeed.

 

[SUFan44]

40 minutes of Marek at the 5 was never a good strategy. I almost think there were too many options to backup Sidibe so no one got force fed. And not having a real pre conference schedule to experiment with lineups didn’t help. Let’s keep in mind that right, wrong or indifferent Jesse might have been the fifth option at center at the beginning of the year behind Sidibe, Anselem, Dolezaj and Ajak. There is a reason the coaching staff, Jesse and his family all agreed to a redshirt before the Pandemic and NCAA made it moot.

Give me a break. Stop defending the guy.

He has screwed this thing up. Period. End of story. It's a fool's errand to continue to absolve him of any wrong doing.

 

[SUFan44]

Could be. Strange that Woody didn’t get eased back into minutes a few weeks ago.

Meanwhile, the chosen ones never stopped getting 30+ minutes per game after getting COVID. Despite playing horrendously during certain games. Amazing how that works.

 

[StPeteOrang]

I honestly don't understand this mindset or take on Edwards. This kind of take purports that Edwards (or anyone in his shoes) suddenly figured out how to be an effective basketball player in a span of two months while riding pine, lol. Listen, the kid would have noticeably improved the team, whether it was in December or now.

He puts multiple people in their correct positions while pushing an ineffective Girard out with less minutes and a blooming star in Kadary in for more minutes. With Kadary in, Buddy also becomes a better shooter, and the guard minutes are spread around allowing for more rest. He honestly changes this team, big time, and I fault this coach for failing to see what has been very obvious to many of us fans for a while now.

What don’t you understand about this mindset. I don’t think he was very good earlier in the year and didn’t deserve a ton of mins. That’s my opinion. Not sure why it’s that hard to grasp. I think he’s clearly played better from what I’ve expected in the Miami game and the UNC game tonight. Also, players improving over the course of a season happens all the time...
So your of the opinion players can’t improve in practice? Only has to be games? And I actually agree with you that we are a better team when we have a true 5 and everyone can play they’re respective positions. Joe should be on the bench and Kadary starting as well. But I was unimpressed with JE until recently. Hopefully the light has gone ok for him because if it has he improves our team dramatically.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Kadary wasn't "ready", until he was. Woody wasn't "ready", until Buddy was out. Jesse wasn't "ready', until Marek got into foul trouble. Anyone see a pattern here?
I see a stubborn old man who's loathe to change his chosen MO in relation to his team. If his mind is made up that Buddy/JG3 play 35+ every game, then that's what'll happen, come hell or high water.
Unless and until he's absolutely FORCED to change, JB will go down with his "ship", and damn the torpedoes.

The move to Richmond happened early tonight and he rode it essentially the rest of the way which was good to see and clearly successful. Almost too far, given he suddenly had to put Girard back in late when kadary got hurt, after Joe had not played for a long, long time. The lineup of Q, Marek, Edwards. kadary, Buddy worked tonight.

 

[DoctorBombay]

The move to Richmond happened early tonight and he rode it essentially the rest of the way which was good to see and clearly successful. Almost too far, given he suddenly had to put Girard back in late when kadary got hurt, after Joe had not played for a long, long time. The lineup of Q, Marek, Edwards. kadary, Buddy worked tonight.

Oh, he's finally seen the light on Kadary. I don't fault him for his loyalty to JG3 but it was immediately obvious that Kadary was the better player, yet JB held out for months on giving him more PT.

 

[StPeteOrang]

Being objectively wrong isn't an opinion.

It's already been shown to you by multiple people in this thread that Edwards wasn't given any minutes early this season. There's no "past performance" that suggests he wasn't very good earlier this season.

Then you bring in past performance from last season, which actually hurts your argument and makes you sound ridiculous claiming that he wasn't very good then, because his per 40 numbers were 13.8 points, 9.7 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 2.8 blocks on 79% shooting and are actually really, really good.

Tough s**** indeed.

Lol. Ok pal. Whatever you say. He played 7 mins against UNC the first time and had 0 rebounds. I’m sure he earned more mins that game right? Once again I agree he should have been getting around 5/7 mins but I’m sure you’ve just disregarded that part of my posts because it doesn’t jive with your opinion. His per 40 numbers are sooo irrelevant since he doesn’t play 40 mins, can’t see any correlation for that being relevant in this discussion. Such a useless stat that is.
Also spouting your opinion as objectively correct is pretty pathetic, not to mention incorrect.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Confused on Woody. JB said I like everything he does?

Dont try to find logic with him now/this year and maybe even moving forward.

He’s trying to prove he’s right almost over making the RIGHT decision(s)

 

[Cusesky8214]

What don’t you understand about this mindset. I don’t think he was very good earlier in the year and didn’t deserve a ton of mins. That’s my opinion. Not sure why it’s that hard to grasp. I think he’s clearly played better from what I’ve expected in the Miami game and the UNC game tonight. Also, players improving over the course of a season happens all the time...
So your of the opinion players can’t improve in practice? Only has to be games? And I actually agree with you that we are a better team when we have a true 5 and everyone can play they’re respective positions. Joe should be on the bench and Kadary starting as well. But I was unimpressed with JE until recently. Hopefully the light has gone ok for him because if it has he improves our team dramatically.

Your entitled to your opinion and your sticking to it...but honestly Jesse showed promise last season. He has shown he was serviceable enough to be earning minutes just about every time he's played including this season... especially considering we've had NO ONE else all year...so idk what it was you didn't like from his minutes up until tonight that made you think he hasn't been "that good" when he's been better then just about everything else we have tried at the 5 all year. Even if Jesse puts up big fat zeros across the board, his presence of being the anchor of our zone is worth the minutes alone. Guys shift to their natural positions and he helps us actually look like our traditional 2/3 that we are use to seeing. Everything else he contributes is a added bonus. Marek playing 40 at the 5 most of the year was a huge disservice to the team and a major mistake by our coach...and he will never admit that as you can tell by his constant "he's still not ready" comments.

 

[Caboose]

What don’t you understand about this mindset. I don’t think he was very good earlier in the year and didn’t deserve a ton of mins. That’s my opinion. Not sure why it’s that hard to grasp. I think he’s clearly played better from what I’ve expected in the Miami game and the UNC game tonight. Also, players improving over the course of a season happens all the time...
So your of the opinion players can’t improve in practice? Only has to be games? And I actually agree with you that we are a better team when we have a true 5 and everyone can play they’re respective positions. Joe should be on the bench and Kadary starting as well. But I was unimpressed with JE until recently. Hopefully the light has gone ok for him because if it has he improves our team dramatically.

Earlier in the year? Lol he's played sparingly at best due to a stubborn coach, as explained throughout this thread, and at times has been very effective in those limited minutes! Furthermore we haven't seen any reason from his play to NOT play him in every game. The only reasoning behind that has been JB now famously saying "he's not ready".

You don't understand a lick of what I'm saying. Practice is not live game experience no matter how you slice it or dice it. The entire basis of your response assumes he only got good in these last two months while riding the pine, when in fact he played very well throughout his limited game action last season. Somebody here extrapolated his stats from last year to 40 minutes and the numbers are spectacular. So you still think he regressed from last season and then suddenly improved in practices only, while riding the pine these last 2-3 months? Yea I'll say it again- I honestly don't understand you people who think this way. Patently absurd.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

What don’t you understand about this mindset. I don’t think he was very good earlier in the year and didn’t deserve a ton of mins. That’s my opinion. Not sure why it’s that hard to grasp. I think he’s clearly played better from what I’ve expected in the Miami game and the UNC game tonight. Also, players improving over the course of a season happens all the time...
So your of the opinion players can’t improve in practice? Only has to be games? And I actually agree with you that we are a better team when we have a true 5 and everyone can play they’re respective positions. Joe should be on the bench and Kadary starting as well. But I was unimpressed with JE until recently. Hopefully the light has gone ok for him because if it has he improves our team dramatically.

But where you are losing everyone and your “point” is...you keep thinking we’re sitting here trying to say he needs to play 30, 35+ minutes a night. I dont think one person is saying that but just above you said he doesnt deserve a ton of minutes. Bravo, we agree.

But I dont know if you have ever played competitive basketball but you throw Jesse out there each game because 1, the other team has size and well, a 6’10 195lbs Center cant guard bigs. Can barely guard bigger 4s. And 2, you hope that the time you throw him out there, it starts to click and you get the 10-9-2blocks game and if it doesnt, you pull him and ride Marek into the sunset. I played a very competitive section 5 team that went to the chip game every year and had several D1, D3 players on it annually. We had a guy that was 6’5 (in upstate NY, that’s tall) and he was like JBA out there. Straight lunatic but coach put him every damn game because every 3rd game, it’s like something clicked and the kid just DOMINATED. The other two games, he would legit pick his our teammate on a pick n roll LOLLLLL and he got his butt right to the bench.

 

[djcon57]

Oh, he's finally seen the light on Kadary. I don't fault him for his loyalty to JG3 but it was immediately obvious that Kadary was the better player, yet JB held out for months on giving him more PT.

Has he? we continue to fall behind early because he refuses to start the correct lineup

 

[OttoinGrotto]

His per 40 numbers are sooo irrelevant since he doesn’t play 40 mins, can’t see any correlation for that being relevant in this discussion.

 

[djcon57]

So which poster here is Etan?

 

[Caboose]

Lol. Ok pal. Whatever you say. He played 7 mins against UNC the first time and had 0 rebounds. I’m sure he earned more mins that game right? Once again I agree he should have been getting around 5/7 mins but I’m sure you’ve just disregarded that part of my posts because it doesn’t jive with your opinion. His per 40 numbers are sooo irrelevant since he doesn’t play 40 mins, can’t see any correlation for that being relevant in this discussion. Such a useless stat that is.
Also spouting your opinion as objectively correct is pretty pathetic, not to mention incorrect.

Just stop ok? You're wrong on this one.