Does anybody still think Edwards...

[Bayside44]

There's a chance you're a troll (and not even a good one at that), but just in case you're genuine, lemme help ya out.

Per 40 numbers are useful for comparative purposes by estimating a stat line based on a player playing a hypothetical full college basketball game (well, hypothetical for other programs, JB actually plays his guys 40 minutes HEYYYYYOOOOOO) and not just per game averages, which can be misleading based on differences in minutes played per game. The comparison introduces an interesting data point.

For example, Dolejaz has played center pretty much all season, and rarely comes out of the game. Dolejaz is a good player, but his per 40 stats of 12.4 points, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals and 0.8 blocks is collectively a worse per 40 contribution than Edwards put together last season, part of the past performance from Edwards that didn't impress you.

It's ridiculous for a guy that plays marginal minutes against lesser competition.

 

[Bayside44]

Its 2 games. Kid should have been playing all year. Same with Bras and Kadary. 3 very good players who didnt play because of a stubborn coach.

Bras has gotten plenty of looks, you cannot mention him in the same breath as Kadary.

 

[Red Holzman]

Edwards' hands were EVERYWHERE -
He had a huge impact that Marek's size wouldn't allow on his very best day.
Doing that vs UNC's huge front line = Jesse should get run EVERY game.
We need to develop a CENTER, and JB's "not ready/practice" stuff is irrelevant to me at this point.

Let Jesse play at least 10" EVERY game and develop, and live with the bumps along the way.

 

[Alsacs]

Edwards' hands were EVERYWHERE -
He had a huge impact that Marek's size wouldn't allow on his very best day.
Doing that vs UNC's huge front line = Jesse should get run EVERY game.
We need to develop a CENTER, and JB's "not ready/practice" stuff is irrelevant to me at this point.

Let Jesse play at least 10" EVERY game and develop, and live with the bumps along the way.

How can he say he is not ready.
Not ready for what?

We don’t expect him to be a scorer. We don’t make him be a starter.

How can you be here 2 years and not be able to play a few minutes each game, to help give energy, 5 fouls, and a presence.

It’s dishonest. Plain and simple.
JB can say he is a matchup player.
Certain teams he plays more than others but he doesn’t.
I get Ansalem being shelved he came a year early and got hurt and the stoppage.
There is no reason Jesse Edwards regressed his playing time from last year when Sidibe wasn’t even hurt for the season.

It’s stubborness. Marek is NOT a 5.
He can play it spurts.

Edwards who is a role player becomes a player fans speak up for because the 3 times he played actual rotation minutes he has helped the team.

 

[orangefog]

I only got through page 4 of this thread. But, I get the feeling you folks don’t like starting every game down by ten before putting in Kadary and Edwards and clawing back. Maybe, if healthy, start those two guys. See how it goes. Substitute as needed. You have a guard rotation, a forward rotation and a center rotation, use it. Figure out who’s got the hot hand, exploit mismatches...you know, basketball. This can be a pretty good team.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

How can he say he is not ready.
Not ready for what?

We don’t expect him to be a scorer. We don’t make him be a starter.

How can you be here 2 years and not be able to play a few minutes each game, to help give energy, 5 fouls, and a presence.

It’s dishonest. Plain and simple.
JB can say he is a matchup player.
Certain teams he plays more than others but he doesn’t.
I get Ansalem being shelved he came a year early and got hurt and the stoppage.
There is no reason Jesse Edwards regressed his playing time from last year when Sidibe wasn’t even hurt for the season.

It’s stubborness. Marek is NOT a 5.
He can play it spurts.

Edwards who is a role player becomes a player fans speak up for because the 3 times he played actual rotation minutes he has helped the team.

Yeah, the early days this year where some relished the thought of Marek at the 5 because 'he'd be a nightmare to defend' for the other team's big guys was always just a mirage. Marek getting beat on by guys who are 2+ inches taller and 30-50 pounds heavier was a recipe for disaster.

I really think JB out-thought himself on this one. He liked JBA's activity - reminded him of BMK without the actual effectiveness. So that probably took away Jesse's time in practice. And we all know if you don't practice well, there's no way you can play well...

 

[orangefog]

Yeah, the early days this year where some relished the thought of Marek at the 5 because 'he'd be a nightmare to defend' for the other team's big guys was always just a mirage. Marek getting beat on by guys who are 2+ inches taller and 30-50 pounds heavier was a recipe for disaster.

I really think JBA outthought this one. He liked JBA's activity - reminded him of BMK without the actual effectiveness. So that probably took away Jesse's time in practice. And we all know if you don't practice well, there's no way you can play well...

I agree with you. I think very early he did pose some issues for opposing centers. But, by the third or fourth game you could hear the opposing bench yell “SPIN!!!” Everytime Marek drove to the basket.

 

[Consigliere]

Honestly don’t want to waste time debating this any further. I posted early on that the development of a backup center was critical to the success of this team. We failed to do so and that’s on the staff either due to recruiting misses or on court coaching. And I don’t think the few minutes the average fan sees during games is the be all, end all. Players earn opportunities in practice and expand on opportunities during in game performance. Right, wrong or indifferent the staff felt Anselem was the best option as a back up center. When he went down they felt Ajak earned the next slot. And no. 6’10”, 215 is not too small. Ultimately they felt that Marek, despite his shortcomings was the best option at center and yes, I agree he needed a 3-4 minute break each half to enhance his performance more than anything else
Maybe I drink the kool aid too much, but I choose to give the same staff some credit for working with Edwards and developing him to the point we saw last night. And I choose to celebrate a big win over a blue blood rival last night rather than be overly critical of decisions that brought us to this point.

 

[GoCuse14]

What are you talking about.
He played 48 minutes the entire season before Georgia Tech.
This statement is laughable.
The only game he got real minutes he looked solid against Miami.
You are making declarative statements based on 25 minutes TOTAL. 16 minutes of those 25 were in garbage time against midmajors.

He didn’t get playing time. Just stop.

No, he is absolutely correct. JE didnt get a ton of minutes because as soon as he would come in he would get rebounds stripped or wouldnt be aggressive enough to even go for them.

Love what we have seen last couple outings...but he looks like a different player.

 

[oTTo113445]

Not playing Eddy was bad but playing small ball in the 2-3 is the bigger mistake. Even brass/guerrier logged the least minutes by a longshot on the wings. No Ajax either to go Dole/Q on the wings.
Forget defense wins championships, defense wins road games.

I can't emphasize enough they need to add at least another 10 teams to the tournament, and its not too late to pull that off this year in a single day with 4 arenas. 1 young player can change an entire team as we are seeing now.

Just one example, what if uconn got snubbed after kemba lost in the be tournament finals that year? I get a lot of posters integrity winning thing but I would bet there is not a major out there that would not rather lose by 20 in round one than win the nit by 15 points every game. I would go a step further and say the difference is night and day. Like you just won $500 and got a fifty percent chance to win $50 grand or lose the 500 kind of ratio. I would bet If you interviewed every major team in the country outside of kansas, kentucky, duke, unc, gonzaga they would tell you the same. I think I read somewhere the sec is getting only 5 of 14 atm. Like 30%

 

[Alsacs]

No, he is absolutely correct. JE didnt get a ton of minutes because as soon as he would come in he would get rebounds stripped or wouldnt be aggressive enough to even go for them.

Love what we have seen last couple outings...but he looks like a different player.

OMG he literally played 5 minutes total in 3 of 8 games after he played 23 minutes against Miami.

You are saying 1.3 minutes in 3 games is enough to give this take.

My god imagine if we took any player out after 90 seconds in 3 games they made mistakes and never played them in 5 games at all.

This is ridiculous. JE didn’t get a chance.

 

[orangeinnyc]

Honestly don’t want to waste time debating this any further. I posted early on that the development of a backup center was critical to the success of this team. We failed to do so and that’s on the staff either due to recruiting misses or on court coaching. And I don’t think the few minutes the average fan sees during games is the be all, end all. Players earn opportunities in practice and expand on opportunities during in game performance. Right, wrong or indifferent the staff felt Anselem was the best option as a back up center. When he went down they felt Ajak earned the next slot. And no. 6’10”, 215 is not too small. Ultimately they felt that Marek, despite his shortcomings was the best option at center and yes, I agree he needed a 3-4 minute break each half to enhance his performance more than anything else
Maybe I drink the kool aid too much, but I choose to give the same staff some credit for working with Edwards and developing him to the point we saw last night. And I choose to celebrate a big win over a blue blood rival last night rather than be overly critical of decisions that brought us to this point.

Very Well said. Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's ridiculous for a guy that plays marginal minutes against lesser competition.

In 19-20 he played more than 2/3 of his games and minutes against P5 competition. That's the season of per 40s I'm more referencing.

You're smarter than this. The idea that Edwards hasn't been productive in the minutes he's been given is a myth. If people want to question how meaningful those minutes are that's a different discussion. But to say Edwards doesn't contribute in his time on the court is false.

You know who an argument can be made doesn't accomplish anything in their court time based on their per 40s? Bol Ajak. His per 40 stats are 1.6 points, 3.2 rebounds, 0.8 steals and 1.6 blocks.

 

[OrangeinDC]

I think so. Pushing marek to forward does cut down our shooting potential, although griffin hasn’t been doing much from outside lately. But this was a legit concern earlier in the year when griff was on.

He might not be a great center yet, but he allows our players to play their proper positions which is just huge.

That alone is reason why he should be playing at least 10 minutes a game.

This!!

 

[Newhouser]

Yeah, the early days this year where some relished the thought of Marek at the 5 because 'he'd be a nightmare to defend' for the other team's big guys was always just a mirage. Marek getting beat on by guys who are 2+ inches taller and 30-50 pounds heavier was a recipe for disaster.

I really think JB out-thought himself on this one. He liked JBA's activity - reminded him of BMK without the actual effectiveness. So that probably took away Jesse's time in practice. And we all know if you don't practice well, there's no way you can play well...

Jesse was losing minutes to JBA - what sense does that make at all?

 

[Alsacs]

The people saying practice determines minutes.
Does anyone honestly believe Kadary Richmond isn’t better at practice than Joe Girard?

That is what you are saying. I don’t believe Girard is better at practice than QR. I believe JB wants Joe to justify his decision he has made and doesn’t want to change unless the score on the floor dictates it.

So I don’t buy the practice excuse. I don’t think Jesse Edwards is Rudy Gobert yet either but his presence puts players in their proper position and he gives energy. He makes mistakes but that is part of a growing process.

Practice is spewed by the HC because none of us there so he can say it and nobody can question it.

 

[chugg21]

I only got through page 4 of this thread. But, I get the feeling you folks don’t like starting every game down by ten before putting in Kadary and Edwards and clawing back. Maybe, if healthy, start those two guys. See how it goes. Substitute as needed. You have a guard rotation, a forward rotation and a center rotation, use it. Figure out who’s got the hot hand, exploit mismatches...you know, basketball. This can be a pretty good team.

Why would you change it up? Going down 10 by the 1st media timeout is next level strategizing. Makes the other team let their guard down and then BAM we hit them with our actual best lineup and are off to the races.

 

[chugg21]

No, he is absolutely correct. JE didnt get a ton of minutes because as soon as he would come in he would get rebounds stripped or wouldnt be aggressive enough to even go for them.

Love what we have seen last couple outings...but he looks like a different player.

I hear this argument but counter with Marek wasn't getting rebounds or his hands on them to even be stripped away. Just look at the numbers. That's a worse result isn't it?

 

[Eric15]

Just one example, what if uconn got snubbed after kemba lost in the be tournament finals that year?

UConn was a 3 seed that year. How would they go from 3 seed to out of the tournament based on one loss?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The people saying practice determines minutes.
Does anyone honestly believe Kadary Richmond isn’t better at practice than Joe Girard?

That is what you are saying. I don’t believe Girard is better at practice than QR. I believe JB wants Joe to justify his decision he has made and doesn’t want to change unless the score on the floor dictates it.

So I don’t buy the practice excuse. I don’t think Jesse Edwards is Rudy Gobert yet either but his presence puts players in their proper position and he gives energy. He makes mistakes but that is part of a growing process.

Practice is spewed by the HC because none of us there so he can say it and nobody can question it.

I could see it a bit. Imagine you are Kadary playing against the starters in practice. Instead of making sweet passes to Buddy for a near guaranteed assist, you are passing to Chaz Owens. Doesn't make you look as good. Honestly, I have no idea how the practices have been run this year, who is available at all due to Covid, so playing with the second team, third, walk-ons might actually make it even harder to get in during real games.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I hear this argument but counter with Marek wasn't getting rebounds or his hands on them to even be stripped away. Just look at the numbers. That's a worse result isn't it?

Just to bang on the per 40 drum some more, because I am going to die on that hill I guess, Marek's per 40 rebounds of 6 this season is the lowest he's had in all 4 years here by .5 rebounds.

Marek Dolezaj College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Marek Dolezaj - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

 

[oTTo113445]

UConn was a 3 seed that year. How would they go from 3 seed to out of the tournament based on one loss?

finished 8th or 9th in the big east that year, if my memory is right.

 

[orangeinnyc]

I hear this argument but counter with Marek wasn't getting rebounds or his hands on them to even be stripped away. Just look at the numbers. That's a worse result isn't it?

Now I’ll say this is a fair critique. Marek is def guilty of this as well but obv he plays more because he’s a senior and brings more on O. Those are just the breaks for Jesse unfortunately. But will agree you have a point here.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think Edwards getting no time is worse than any of the minute distribution complains this year. Worse than Kadary vs Joe and worse than the Newton and Braswell complaints. I am almost sure that if we played him against Pittsburgh at the Dome we would have closed that game out. He may have helped against Rutgers as well.

 

[Cusefan0307]

finished 8th or 9th in the big east that year, if my memory is right.

That conference was ridiculous. They were a strong team that lost games in a strong conference. Much like us in 2013.