Does playing 100% zone(except when we press) have an effect on recruiting?

[Alsacs]

I ask this because I was reading about Jerami Grant getting snubbed for the All-Star Game. I was mentioned that he took longer to develop because he came from a 100% zone defense.
I don’t agree with this take it took longer because he needed to develop his shot. Now, like guys like Zach LaVine and Jerami Grant leaving school early probably helped develop them because pro coaching is a lot better than college coaching.

So hence my question does playing 100% zone hurt recruiting top players?

I think it does because the top recruits want to play NBA basketball and playing 100% zone doesn’t help them show their defense which is a big factor in the draft process.

Be fair no cheap shots.

 

[chugg21]

I think it definitely has an effect but not major. May be major on certain body types though.

 

[MikeSU02]

If you've played m2m most of your life and then take a break from it for a year or two and then go to the highest level of basketball, it will impact you.

Whether a team measures that as a knock against you is something different.

But it's like what I said about Kadary's shooting, NBA teams will always feel they can coach you to shoot and play their defense.

As it pertains to recruiting, people will use anything to gain an edge. Zone is just one thing. I would guess JB's age probably hurts more (whether that's fair or not is a different story).

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think it definitely has an effect but not major. May be major on certain body types though.

Major on the types of recruits we get for center. Feels like JB fell in love with the way BMK played defense, so we go after those types now. At the cost of offensive basketball players for that position.

It's also led to us recruiting combo guards who should never have been expected to be able to play the point in power 5 conferences.

 

[tbonezone]

if losing affects recruiting then yes.

 

[OrangeDW]

Grant’s offense is what took long to develop, and which has seen incredible improvement.

He’s been a plus defender for a long time, and it’s what got him on the court for years.

 

[Alsacs]

If you've played m2m most of your life and then take a break from it for a year or two and then go to the highest level of basketball, it will impact you.

Whether a team measures that as a knock against you is something different.

But it's like what I said about Kadary's shooting, NBA teams will always feel they can coach you to shoot and play their defense.

As it pertains to recruiting, people will use anything to gain an edge. Zone is just one thing. I would guess JB's age probably hurts more (whether that's fair or not is a different story).

So you think the zone has little or no effect on recruiting? I hope this is true.

 

[Alsacs]

Grant’s offense is what took long to develop, and which has seen incredible improvement.

He’s been a plus defender for a long time, and it’s what got him on the court for years.

I agree and you are talking in facts.
Perception and narratives in 2021 matter more than facts. Our country has gone thru a whirlwind where facts don’t matter as much anymore.

So that is why I am asking does the zone get negative recruited against us and is it hurting us in recruiting.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Grant’s offense is what took long to develop, and which has seen incredible improvement.

He’s been a plus defender for a long time, and it’s what got him on the court for years.

Yeah I think the zone knock on Grant is only a thing because the narrative has been willed into existence. It doesn't actually explain his career progression at all.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I agree and you are talking in facts.
Perception and narratives in 2021 matter more than facts. Our country has gone thru a whirlwind where facts don’t matter as much anymore.

So that is why I am asking does the zone get negative recruited against us and is it hurting us in recruiting.

Probably sometimes.

 

[OrangeDW]

I agree and you are talking in facts.
Perception and narratives in 2021 matter more than facts. Our country has gone thru a whirlwind where facts don’t matter anymore.

So that is why I am asking does the zone get negative recruited against us and is it hurting us in recruiting.

I think it’s more what others said...it hurts us when it limits the field of players that we target, and maybe keeps a certain style of player from wanting to come here.

Any “it will hurt you for the NBA” stuff is pure BS IMO. I can’t imagine that being a factor, with high level players and HS coaches who know the game. MCW, Wes, and Grant were getting on the court for years because of their defense. Guys who have the physical tools and skills to defend, will defend. Scheme doesn’t matter.

 

[MikeSU02]

So you think the zone has little or no effect on recruiting? I hope this is true.

I think our offense has more of an impact if I'm being honest. If you hear the Kentucky guys, especially the PGs, talk about the offense Kentucky runs, they all go on about how it prepped them for the NBA.

I think 95% of the recruits are offense-minded. If not more.

 

[Trueblue25]

just another part of the current program that can be added to the growing list of what opposing coach’s can and already use to negatively recruit against us.

 

[Alsacs]

I think it’s more what others said...it hurts us when it limits the field of players that we target, and maybe keeps a certain style of player from wanting to come here.

Any “it will hurt you for the NBA” stuff is pure BS IMO. I can’t imagine that being a factor, with high level players and HS coaches who know the game. MCW, Wes, and Grant were getting on the court for years because of their defense. Guys who have the physical tools and skills to defend, will defend. Scheme doesn’t matter.

I don’t think we limit who we target anymore. See all the players out of position.

I don’t think it hurts you in the NBA. But, my question is does it hurt getting them to consider Syracuse.

Benny Williams proves we can get talent. I am wonderinng because people need lay off GMac I was reading the kid we are going after from PA and reading the zone, the zone and thinking is that being used against us.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think our offense has more of an impact if I'm being honest. If you hear the Kentucky guys, especially the PGs, talk about the offense Kentucky runs, they all go on about how it prepped them for the NBA.

I think 95% of the recruits are offense-minded. If not more.

I agree with this.

The offense used to work on our favor when it comes to guys feeling like it's prep for the next level. I'm not so sure it does anymore.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think it’s more what others said...it hurts us when it limits the field of players that we target, and maybe keeps a certain style of player from wanting to come here.

Any “it will hurt you for the NBA” stuff is pure BS IMO. I can’t imagine that being a factor, with high level players and HS coaches who know the game. MCW, Wes, and Grant were getting on the court for years because of their defense. Guys who have the physical tools and skills to defend, will defend. Scheme doesn’t matter.

Jason Hart made a lot of money playing defense.

 

[Alsacs]

I think our offense has more of an impact if I'm being honest. If you hear the Kentucky guys, especially the PGs, talk about the offense Kentucky runs, they all go on about how it prepped them for the NBA.

I think 95% of the recruits are offense-minded. If not more.

What is the difference between Dribble drive offense and our ISO?
Isn’t it pretty much the same thing?

 

[jdubs30]

Thybulle is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA

 

[NineOneSeven]

Thybulle is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA

It's the reason he is in the philly rotation.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think our offense has more of an impact if I'm being honest. If you hear the Kentucky guys, especially the PGs, talk about the offense Kentucky runs, they all go on about how it prepped them for the NBA.

I think 95% of the recruits are offense-minded. If not more.

Agreed. Thing with man to man...they’re not all the same. NBA isn’t playing old school Jim Calhoun UConn pressure man to man, or Tony Bennett man to man.

Players are going to adjust to their NBA team’s scheme regardless, when they get to the pros. Their college defensive scheme is irrlevant. All the NBA cares about when drafting them is how long their arms are, quickness, strength, height, etc. which will affect how many positions they’ll be able to guard in the pros.

 

[MikeSU02]

What is the difference between Dribble drive offense and our ISO?
Isn’t it pretty much the same thing?

Assuming this isn't sarcasm. LOL.

I legit don't know how we would define our offense. I'm not exaggerating.

At some point did we do dribble drive? Yeah. I'm not a coach, but we're not going four out with JGIII breaking down defenses and reading and reacting like the attacking dribble drive that Cal runs when he has the right guys.

So is it part of our offense? Maybe? In some instances.

You need a strong lead guard to make it effective. I think Cal would say that Rose was prob his ideal guy for it.

 

[chugg21]

Major on the types of recruits we get for center. Feels like JB fell in love with the way BMK played defense, so we go after those types now. At the cost of offensive basketball players for that position.

It's also led to us recruiting combo guards who should never have been expected to be able to play the point in power 5 conferences.

Success of Baye and MCW = the downfall of Syracuse basketball.

 

[Fly Rodder]

What is the difference between Dribble drive offense and our ISO?
Isn’t it pretty much the same thing?

Depends on who is getting set up for the shot. Syracuse offense has long been focused on The Guy and then everyone else. In the past it's usually been the 3, but lately it's been the combo guard.

The Guy gets to shoot at will and plays are designed to get him the ball in isolation. Everyone else has to fight for scraps, they get yelled at and benched if they take a poor shot or one at all, and PF/centers are basically only there to put back offensive rebounds. It's not really a designed offense.

I agree with CuseFanVt ... if I was a good center prospect, there is no chance I would come to SU.

 

[MikeSU02]

Agreed. Thing with man to man...they’re not all the same. NBA isn’t playing old school Jim Calhoun UConn pressure man to man, or Tony Bennett man to man.

Players are going to adjust to their NBA team’s scheme regardless, when they get to the pros. Their college defensive scheme is irrlevant. All the NBA cares about when drafting them is how long their arms are, quickness, strength, height, etc. which will affect how many positions they’ll be able to guard in the pros.

Honestly half the battle in the NBA is understand just when to switch in whatever D you're in. It's not THAT far off from a zone in some instances.

The other half is who you can cover. If you are switching a bunch, can you guard 1-4? Can you only guard a 1/2? Can you guard a quick, short guy? Etc, etc.

 

[Alsacs]

Assuming this isn't sarcasm. LOL.

I legit don't know how we would define our offense. I'm not exaggerating.

At some point did we do dribble drive? Yeah. I'm not a coach, but we're not going four out with JGIII breaking down defenses and reading and reacting like the attacking dribble drive that Cal runs when he has the right guys.

So is it part of our offense? Maybe? In some instances.

You need a strong lead guard to make it effective. I think Cal would say that Rose was prob his ideal guy for it.

Depends on who is getting set up for the shot. Syracuse offense has long been focused on The Guy and then everyone else. In the past it's usually been the 3, but lately it's been the combo guard.

The Guy gets to shoot at will and plays are designed to get him the ball in isolation. Everyone else has to fight for scraps, they get yelled at and benched if they take a poor shot or one at all, and PF/centers are basically only there to put back offensive rebounds. It's not really a designed offense.

I agree with CuseFanVt ... if I was a good center prospect, there is no chance I would come to SU.

So basically we kinda run the dribble drive we just don’t recruit players for it.
Our isolation offense is basically the same thing it’s get the ball to our best players and let them do their things.

It’s just we are recruiting Derrick Rose, John Wall, Eric Bledsoe, De’ Aaron Fox, SGA to do the ISO.