Dome Pricing for Football

[Scooch]

Someone with better Google skills than I please help me out...

I'm trying to find pictures of our home games from the early 2000s when we had announced crowds in the upper -30s/low-40s. I'm thinking 2001 vs. Auburn (43K), or 2002 vs. UNC (39K, I think). Basically similar "announced" crowds to what we've had the past couple years.

I want to compare those pics to what we saw for Wake and Toledo this year. I know we report "tickets distributed" or something like that, as do all schools, but I am increasingly convinced that (a) we're not getting more than 25K actual people in the building these days, if not less at times. I think despite similar announced numbers we have a LOT less people actually there these days. And (b) that the ghastly stretches of silver in the preferred sections are getting worse and worse.

Thanks, oh Knights of the Google...

 

[MCuse44]

Why should anyone who didn't goto SU care about going to a football game? Syracuse would be nothing without the townies. Chew on that.

 

[Scooch]

Why should anyone who didn't goto SU care about going to a football game? Syracuse would be nothing without the townies. Chew on that.

So then I assume you think that no one should ever attend a pro sporting event ever?

 

[Cusefan95]

Why should anyone who didn't goto SU care about going to a football game? Syracuse would be nothing without the townies. Chew on that.

The top programs like Alabama have HUGE HUGE HUGE fan bases, most of whom did not actually attend the University. It often seems like the local population expect Syracuse to compete with programs like Alabama...while not recognizing that their indifference is one reason why it's highly unlikely to occur.

It's fine if you (or other CNY residents) don't care about Syracuse athletics...as long as you realize that at some point the right business decision for the University is to stop investing any more than the bare minimum requirements in facilities and coaches and just cash the checks from the ACC to fund the entire department. On the upside you'll still be able to pout and sulk about the fact the University doesn't care about you, and SU will have gotten into a conference situation where they can run in the red without you. Probably can't win, but at least can balance the books.

 

[MCuse44]

Its a serious question. A lot of comments on this board portray the locals/townies as some sort of depressed loser breed of poor people living in a ghetto slum. That disconnect is ming boggling to me. People were told to get a life and they did. Whats wrong with following professional athletes on teams like the yankees and bills?

Its clear as day to me that we will never be anything until the Hill (and i hate to break it to people but theres more then 1 in syracuse) fixes the disconnect between the univeristy and the broader community. And simply put the University is nothing in big time athletics without the community. I dont care how many times you condense the preferred seats to make the middle of the dome look better. The bottom line is people arent going. And if its not those world class alumni who stay in syracuse and produce tons of great jobs, that leaves those poor uneducated townies.

 

[Upstate]

But there are a ton of Syracuse alumni and the city and area. And a huge number of SU students are locals.

And a ton of people want to sit in the endzone seats; have you been to a game this year? The two third deck endzones are the most densely-filled areas in the stadium.

I have been to a game this year, the lower sections of the endzone opposite the band is bare, nearly every game. I know they're in the lower level, but it isn't the most desirable seat for the view of the game. Maybe they aren't priced well for what they offer.

I don't think "a lot" are local.

"Students at Syracuse University represent 50 states and more than 115 foreign countries. Of the total student population, 10 percent are from foreign countries. Of the fall 2007 undergraduate full-time class, approximately 41 percent are from New York State (16 percent of enrolled full-time undergraduates are from the New York City area), 55 percent are from other states, and 4 percent are from foreign countries. "

Wish it broke down the demographics more. So 25% of all students are from NY but not the city. Can't imagine that all of them are from Syracuse, probably between 15-18%, which would mean around 2-3k students are local. So, if only 18 percent of kids are local, I wouldn't imagine that many of these grads are staying in Syracuse to work, atleast not at this time. There is probably an older generation that settled where they graduated, but unless you're in a city with jobs, you're probably not going to stick around. Syracuse is that kind of city at the moment.

 

[rrlbees]

This is all true. But it's funny how Syracuse locals seem to have no reservations about rooting for professional teams like the Yankees, Giants and Bills --soulless, profit-driven enterprises that have zero affiliation to CNY. Yet they refuse to get attached to the private organization that brings more visibility and notoriety to their community than anything else by a country mile.

I'm not so sure about that. There is a difference between rooting for a team and going to a game. Even tho our attendance is poor, I know a gazillion people that watch the games on TV. Rooting for the pro teams in CNY doesn't mean you go to a lot of games, it just means you follow them and watch them on TV (and maybe catch a game or two).

 

[Chip]

Someone with better Google skills than I please help me out...

I'm trying to find pictures of our home games from the early 2000s when we had announced crowds in the upper -30s/low-40s. I'm thinking 2001 vs. Auburn (43K), or 2002 vs. UNC (39K, I think). Basically similar "announced" crowds to what we've had the past couple years.

I want to compare those pics to what we saw for Wake and Toledo this year. I know we report "tickets distributed" or something like that, as do all schools, but I am increasingly convinced that (a) we're not getting more than 25K actual people in the building these days, if not less at times. I think despite similar announced numbers we have a LOT less people actually there these days. And (b) that the ghastly stretches of silver in the preferred sections are getting worse and worse.

Thanks, oh Knights of the Google...

Without google pictures to back you up, I'll back you up anyway. I think it's become pretty obvious that in the past 8 years or so, the sideline presence has dwindled. And as I said somewhere in this gigundo thread, there is just no way that 39,000 people bought a ticket to Toledo. No way no how.

I'm sure Gross is well aware, he would have to be unless he has an optical aversion to the color silver. It's a g-l-a-r-i-n-g problem. Maybe to him he just expects it because that's all he's known here. But I'm sure he's smart enough to know, and has data, on each former ticket holder between the 30s. I just don't know what they are doing to address. Hard to believe they're just doing nothing, and waiting for winning to cure. Risky bet.

It seems like our only pricing changes have involved upper deck end zones (went from $100 to $99 this year, yes!) and the upper deck corners which I think you can get seasons for $125 now. $125 for a corner end zone seat in an upper deck that only takes a one level staircase to get to, in a stadium that literally put it's bleachers on top of the sideline. But they are not addressing the elephant in the room in premium and it looks humiliating on TV. Perhaps because they think that elephant is a one day cow, cash cow. Again, risky proposition. Need to figure out how to get them filled, and not worry so much about the premium payer who's going to look at his new seating neighbor and realize how different of an amount they paid. There are ways to deal with that.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Without google pictures to back you up, I'll back you up anyway. I think it's become pretty obvious that in the past 8 years or so, the sideline presence has dwindled. And as I said somewhere in this gigundo thread, there is just no way that 39,000 people bought a ticket to Toledo. No way no how.

I'm sure Gross is well aware, he would have to be unless he has an optical aversion to the color silver. It's a g-l-a-r-i-n-g problem. Maybe to him he just expects it because that's all he's known here. But I'm sure he's smart enough to know, and has data, on each former ticket holder between the 30s. I just don't know what they are doing to address. Hard to believe they're just doing nothing, and waiting for winning to cure. Risky bet.

It seems like our only pricing changes have involved upper deck end zones (went from $100 to $99 this year, yes!) and the upper deck corners which I think you can get seasons for $125 now. $125 for a corner end zone seat in an upper deck that only takes a one level staircase to get to, in a stadium that literally put it's bleachers on top of the sideline. But they are not addressing the elephant in the room in premium and it looks humiliating on TV. Perhaps because they think that elephant is a one day cow, cash cow. Again, risky proposition. Need to figure out how to get them filled, and not worry so much about the premium payer who's going to look at his new seating neighbor and realize how different of an amount they paid. There are ways to deal with that.

I sit in those seats every week with my kids and thanks to the complete lack of ticket sales my degenerate friends do now too. I have 4 seasons in two different preferred A ( two I bought from Buddah just for the year) and you could sit 10-12 more people in either of those areas without upsetting any bluehairs, which can be a challenge at times in the dome. Cranky

 

[Cusefan95]

Its clear as day to me that we will never be anything until the Hill (and i hate to break it to people but theres more then 1 in syracuse) fixes the disconnect between the univeristy and the broader community. And simply put the University is nothing in big time athletics without the community. I dont care how many times you condense the preferred seats to make the middle of the dome look better. The bottom line is people arent going. And if its not those world class alumni who stay in syracuse and produce tons of great jobs, that leaves those poor uneducated townies.

So what does the University need to do to make you feel important enough that you would spend your money to attend games? I'm honestly curious, because almost uniformly when I hear comments like that from people and ask them what the University should do, they either can't come up with anything or give a vague answer that is totally useless in determining a solution. Gross isn't going to pull up in your driveway and respectfully request your attendance at this Saturday's game...but that seems like what a high percentage of CNY residents are waiting for.

 

[Scooch]

I'm not so sure about that. There is a difference between rooting for a team and going to a game. Even tho our attendance is poor, I know a gazillion people that watch the games on TV. Rooting for the pro teams in CNY doesn't mean you go to a lot of games, it just means you follow them and watch them on TV (and maybe catch a game or two).

True, attendance and general interest are different things. But there's a lot of locals in these threads talking about how CNYers just don't care. Period. That's what I was specifically referring to.

 

[Scooch]

Its a serious question. A lot of comments on this board portray the locals/townies as some sort of depressed loser breed of poor people living in a ghetto slum. That disconnect is ming boggling to me. People were told to get a life and they did. Whats wrong with following professional athletes on teams like the yankees and bills?

Its clear as day to me that we will never be anything until the Hill (and i hate to break it to people but theres more then 1 in syracuse) fixes the disconnect between the univeristy and the broader community. And simply put the University is nothing in big time athletics without the community. I dont care how many times you condense the preferred seats to make the middle of the dome look better. The bottom line is people arent going. And if its not those world class alumni who stay in syracuse and produce tons of great jobs, that leaves those poor uneducated townies.

Oh my God, just stop. Seriously, stop. STOP.

If there are locals who almost TEN YEARS LATER are upset by a statement a former Chancellor made about how a former AD dealt with a former coach... and that is why they don't attend games... then those locals are petulant ing children.

As to the pro comment -- my point was that you're saying Syracuse residents should feel no connection to SU sports unless they graduated from there. When did you graduate from the New York Yankees? What degree in Buffalo Bills do you hold?

 

[MCuse44]

Well I go to the games, but lets see if I can get banned today.

To start, after reading your post, I would say your attitude is problem 1a. People that work or interact with students mostly come away with a bad taste in their mouths. The words spoiled, rude, out of touch with the real work...etc come up a lot. It may not be everyone but it sure seems to be a large percentage. Syracuse University is average in just about everything but newhouse. Its a brand name for people who didnt actually get into a good school. People in syracuse know this, they grow up wanting to go to cornell, not syracuse. In fact liking syracuse university as a kid is mostly considered uncool. It defies logic, I know.

So building on that, what the university could do is build on the blue collar mentality of the area and instead of thinking they are better then everyone, embrace it. Its obviously not good enough to just be in town and expect people to pour in. The $100 dollar cheap type of season tickets would have been better 10 years ago when people actually went. So its going to be tough because they need to build the culture up again. And I think build it relating to the community. If that means a jay z block party concert before every game for ticket holders...i dont know, i dont have that answer. I personally think the fan base has eroded to the point where the price of season tickets does not matter anymore. You could drop it to $75 and not much more come. So if your going after people who arent going to go anyways and your talking $100+ for a football game vs some other type of cheaper entertainment, cuse football is going to lose that battle a lot.

So $12 parking in skytop I think could be eliminated. Ive never seen that lot full except maybe 1 or two games. Penn State was one of them. People think its ridiculous but they cannot be making much more then $5-10k a game there. I think thats peanuts in the world of expanding your customer base.

im out.

So what does the University need to do to make you feel important enough that you would spend your money to attend games? I'm honestly curious, because almost uniformly when I hear comments like that from people and ask them what the University should do, they either can't come up with anything or give a vague answer that is totally useless in determining a solution. Gross isn't going to pull up in your driveway and respectfully request your attendance at this Saturday's game...but that seems like what a high percentage of CNY residents are waiting for.

 

[Scooch]

MCuse44, I say this with all due respect, and i thank you for attending, because I'm 5 hours away and maybe catch one game a year these days... but whatever. Excuses.

People in CNY have no idea what they have in SU football. They are part of a VERY exclusive club of ~65 BCS level football programs that play 6 games at home each year. If people say they don't go because the team sucks I can understand that. If they say the don't go because of some stupid measuring town vs. gown nonsense, or because SU doesn't provide free ice cream and pony rides, then whatever. Excuses.

 

[kingottoiii]

MCuse44

Actually I think you have it backwards. CNYers have a sense of entitlement. They should get free tix, free parking, free concessions, free merchandise, see a 10 W team playing against only Top 25 teams, while having a halftime concert from top musical artists. The attitude from CNYers is deranged almost as much as RU fans.

SU, its students, and alumni in no way treat CNYers like you described above. And for any CNYer to feel that way, they have a serious inferiority complex. I think the sense of woah is me, we aren't good enough is an epidemic in CNY. We see it here all the time when people question if we are good enough to play BCS FB, if we are good enough to get picked by the ACC, if we can get recruit X, if our BBall team is Top 10 all time, etc, etc, etc. The constant negativity is sickening.

BTW if all the locals hate SU so much, then how in the hell does SU BBall get 36k for big games? Why in the hell does SU sell so much merchandise, more then most STATE schools?

BTW2 most kids 19-22 are rude and out of touch. That is the age group. In addition SU is far from average outside of Newhouse. We have several Top 50 programs. Your hatred for SU reeks of jealousy.

 

[Cusefan95]

MCuse44 - I highly doubt you'll get banned. But "embrace the blue-collar mentality" is exactly what I'm talking about, its a vague nothing statement. Which was my point to begin with. Which is why I think any efforts to attract more local fans are completely pointless right now, the fans that aren't coming aren't going to come regardless of what Syracuse does. Focus on getting a full student section, build a program that wins with more regularity, and hope that more people finally decide to drop the nonsense reasons and excuses and start coming to the games.

Free tickets to the Rutgers games is a good idea (and compensating the students that bought packages is very good thinking...) - that's where the focus has gotta be right now.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Well I go to the games, but lets see if I can get banned today.

To start, after reading your post, I would say your attitude is problem 1a. People that work or interact with students mostly come away with a bad taste in their mouths. The words spoiled, rude, out of touch with the real work...etc come up a lot. It may not be everyone but it sure seems to be a large percentage. Syracuse University is average in just about everything but newhouse. Its a brand name for people who didnt actually get into a good school. People in syracuse know this, they grow up wanting to go to cornell, not syracuse. In fact liking syracuse university as a kid is mostly considered uncool. It defies logic, I know.

So building on that, what the university could do is build on the blue collar mentality of the area and instead of thinking they are better then everyone, embrace it. Its obviously not good enough to just be in town and expect people to pour in. The $100 dollar cheap type of season tickets would have been better 10 years ago when people actually went. So its going to be tough because they need to build the culture up again. And I think build it relating to the community. If that means a jay z block party concert before every game for ticket holders...i dont know, i dont have that answer. I personally think the fan base has eroded to the point where the price of season tickets does not matter anymore. You could drop it to $75 and not much more come. So if your going after people who arent going to go anyways and your talking $100+ for a football game vs some other type of cheaper entertainment, cuse football is going to lose that battle a lot.

So $12 parking in skytop I think could be eliminated. Ive never seen that lot full except maybe 1 or two games. Penn State was one of them. People think its ridiculous but they cannot be making much more then $5-10k a game there. I think thats peanuts in the world of expanding your customer base.

im out.

Top 3 Broadcast School in Newhouse
#1 Public Affairs Grad School, and #9 IR school in Maxwell
Top 45 Business School, with a Top 10 Entrepreneurship School in Whitman
Top 5 Information Studies school in the iSchool
#2 Architecture School
The Falk School has a top Sports Management program which is a very new major in most places...

Yeah, we're pretty mediocre.

 

[Chip]

Well I go to the games, but lets see if I can get banned today.

To start, after reading your post, I would say your attitude is problem 1a. People that work or interact with students mostly come away with a bad taste in their mouths. The words spoiled, rude, out of touch with the real work...etc come up a lot. It may not be everyone but it sure seems to be a large percentage. Syracuse University is average in just about everything but newhouse. Its a brand name for people who didnt actually get into a good school. People in syracuse know this, they grow up wanting to go to cornell, not syracuse. In fact liking syracuse university as a kid is mostly considered uncool. It defies logic, I know.

So building on that, what the university could do is build on the blue collar mentality of the area and instead of thinking they are better then everyone, embrace it. Its obviously not good enough to just be in town and expect people to pour in. The $100 dollar cheap type of season tickets would have been better 10 years ago when people actually went. So its going to be tough because they need to build the culture up again. And I think build it relating to the community. If that means a jay z block party concert before every game for ticket holders...i dont know, i dont have that answer. I personally think the fan base has eroded to the point where the price of season tickets does not matter anymore. You could drop it to $75 and not much more come. So if your going after people who arent going to go anyways and your talking $100+ for a football game vs some other type of cheaper entertainment, cuse football is going to lose that battle a lot.

So $12 parking in skytop I think could be eliminated. Ive never seen that lot full except maybe 1 or two games. Penn State was one of them. People think its ridiculous but they cannot be making much more then $5-10k a game there. I think thats peanuts in the world of expanding your customer base.

im out.

I can't believe all the rationale responses at this whiny post aimed at slamming SU. Some of you are better than me. Makes me wonder why he even goes to the games.

 

[OttoMets]

the price of season tickets does not matter anymore. You could drop it to $75 and not much more come. So if your going after people who arent going to go anyways and your talking $100+ for a football game vs some other type of cheaper entertainment, cuse football is going to lose that battle a lot.

So $12 parking in skytop I think could be eliminated. Ive never seen that lot full except maybe 1 or two games. Penn State was one of them. People think its ridiculous but they cannot be making much more then $5-10k a game there. I think thats peanuts in the world of expanding your customer base.

im out.

Let me get this straight.

Dropping ticket prices by $25 would not draw more people to the stadium, because nobody cares, but dropping parking prices by $12 would "expand your customer base"?

Good one.

 

[OttoMets]

I have been to a game this year, the lower sections of the endzone opposite the band is bare, nearly every game. I know they're in the lower level, but it isn't the most desirable seat for the view of the game. Maybe they aren't priced well for what they offer.

I don't think "a lot" are local.

"Students at Syracuse University represent 50 states and more than 115 foreign countries. Of the total student population, 10 percent are from foreign countries. Of the fall 2007 undergraduate full-time class, approximately 41 percent are from New York State (16 percent of enrolled full-time undergraduates are from the New York City area), 55 percent are from other states, and 4 percent are from foreign countries. "

Wish it broke down the demographics more. So 25% of all students are from NY but not the city. Can't imagine that all of them are from Syracuse, probably between 15-18%, which would mean around 2-3k students are local. So, if only 18 percent of kids are local, I wouldn't imagine that many of these grads are staying in Syracuse to work, atleast not at this time. There is probably an older generation that settled where they graduated, but unless you're in a city with jobs, you're probably not going to stick around. Syracuse is that kind of city at the moment.

I gotcha. I wasn't thinking of the lower deck; those probably are a very tough sell.

The whole "Central New York has no jobs" thing is another of those "parking is difficult" claims that gets thrown around a lot but doesn't hold water. It's really not germane to the subject at hand, but a real number of Syracuse students do end up with jobs in the area. Architecture, engineering, and law are three fields that are doing placing recent graduates.

 

[Upstate]

I gotcha. I wasn't thinking of the lower deck; those probably are a very tough sell.

The whole "Central New York has no jobs" thing is another of those "parking is difficult" claims that gets thrown around a lot but doesn't hold water. It's really not germane to the subject at hand, but a real number of Syracuse students do end up with jobs in the area. Architecture, engineering, and law are three fields that are doing placing recent graduates.

What I'm saying is that with 80+% of students from out of the area, the odds that they stay in Syracuse and work is not likely. Therefore, the vast majority probably settle in NYC, NJ, PA/Philly, what have you, and those alumni, the heart of the fan base, don't stay local. And the fact that Syracuse is a private school, not graduating 15-20k students every year, wont give them the base that say an alabama would, though they probably don't stick around Tuscaloosa and work in close proximity to 'Bama, either, but they're still pumping out a high quantity of grads.

 

[OttoMets]

What I'm saying is that with 80+% of students from out of the area, the odds that they stay in Syracuse and work is not likely. Therefore, the vast majority probably settle in NYC, NJ, PA/Philly, what have you, and those alumni, the heart of the fan base, don't stay local. And the fact that Syracuse is a private school, not graduating 15-20k students every year, wont give them the base that say an alabama would, though they probably don't stick around Tuscaloosa and work in close proximity to 'Bama, either, but they're still pumping out a high quantity of grads.

This is true. We're not replenishing the ranks like TAMU or Alabama or those schools.