Don't worry about Dougie, I have a feeling JB will | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Don't worry about Dougie, I have a feeling JB will

cusetown1 said:
It's beyond me how wins aren't the key measuring stick for greatness. The games are played and the ultimate goal is a win, correct? I don't know what the confusion is.
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It's ok to think that...it's just that no none (and I'm including our players and JB himself) would agree with you.

For any coach at a high D1 level, the ultimate goal is to win in March, period.
 
ORRange said:
I'm on needles and pins waiting to see the top ten list of Doc.
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There are a handful of current coaches who I think are better...then you throw in Wooden, Rupp, Knight, Smith, and Calhoun off the top of my head.

So I think he's a great coach...but not top ten all time. Hardly a slap in the face to JB.
 
docsu said:
It's ok to think that...it's just that no none (and I'm including our players and JB himself) would agree with you.

For any coach at a high D1 level, the ultimate goal is to win in March, period.
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Let it go, you're wrong.
 
docsu said:
There are a handful of current coaches who I think are better...then you throw in Wooden, Rupp, Knight, Smith, and Calhoun off the top of my head.

So I think he's a great coach...but not top ten all time. Hardly a slap in the face to JB.
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Okay, so include Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams and then it gets real hard to justify anyone else besides JB. It's not so much that you and Doug say that he isn't a top ten coach but neither will name the coaches who are better.
 
ORRange said:
Okay, so include Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams and then it gets real hard to justify anyone else besides JB. It's not so much that you and Doug say that he isn't a top ten coach but neither will name the coaches who are better.
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Docsu is Doug.
 
Hate to let you in on a secret, every major college program has had some monumental collapses in the tournament. Just ask Kentucky, NC, Duke, UConn, Kansas, if you get there enough, you get spanked on occasion. Gottlieb should put some statistics together to back up his position. Competition today is way tougher than it was in the 70's and earlier. Kentucky has never played in a league like the Big East in its prime.
 
ORRange said:
Okay, so include Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams and then it gets real hard to justify anyone else besides JB. It's not so much that you and Doug say that he isn't a top ten coach but neither will name the coaches who are better.
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Actually, I wouldn't include Roy Williams.
 
rrlbees said:
Its not his job to rag on 1 coach year after year and then to turn it up a notch when that coach reaches a historic milestone and is being praised all over the country.

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It really must grind on him anytime JB is ever shown any love.

He conveniently leaves out all of the good JB has done through his charity work in trying to help improve people's live's and well being.

That is all a part of what makes a person great but that would not help him in his argument.

What is the name of the charity Gottlieb heads up? How many phone calls has he taken from cancer victim's helping to assure them and advising them where they can turn for help?
 
K
Wooden
Rupp
Knight
Calhoun
Pitino
Smith
Izzo

I'd have another grouping of
Roy
Donovan
JB
Crum
Thompson
Self
Calipari
Olson

I personally preference excellence to longevity/consistency, but there's an argument that JB is 9th or 10th, or even ahead of the "young" Izzo. But I'd put him in the 9-16 range.

I'd also note that I know nothing about guys like Henry Iba or Phog Allen.
 
ORRange said:
Okay, so include Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams and then it gets real hard to justify anyone else besides JB. It's not so much that you and Doug say that he isn't a top ten coach but neither will name the coaches who are better.
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Add izzo and self and that's 10. You can make a case for Donovan. Again I'm not saying they are better but the argument can be made that those 11 are better than JB. You can parse the numbers any way to justify any of these coaches being top 10 including JB, that's why it's a ridiculous debate.
 
PoppyHart said:
K
Wooden
Rupp
Knight
Calhoun
Pitino
Smith
Izzo

I'd have another grouping of
Roy
Donovan
JB
Crum
Thompson
Self
Calipari
Olson

I personally preference excellence to longevity/consistency, but there's an argument that JB is 9th or 10th, or even ahead of the "young" Izzo. But I'd put him in the 9-16 range.

I'd also note that I know nothing about guys like Henry Iba or Phog Allen.
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you know nothing about wooden and rupp as well besides online stats.
 
docsu said:
There are a handful of current coaches who I think are better...then you throw in Wooden, Rupp, Knight, Smith, and Calhoun off the top of my head.

So I think he's a great coach...but not top ten all time. Hardly a slap in the face to JB.
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Can you list your 10 in total?

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K
Rupp
Smith
Wooden
Calhoun
Knight
Izzo
Pitino
Self
Donovan

That's off the top of my head. I'd have to do more research on guys that came earlier than that.

You could make arguements for Roy, Calipari, Matta, or Denny Crum as well.
 
Only all4su is capable of coming up with a list because he probably seen them all coach : )


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rrlbees said:
Its not his job to rag on 1 coach year after year and then to turn it up a notch when that coach reaches a historic milestone and is being praised all over the country.
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No question, but he also knows he's dealing with a rapid fan base. Best one in the country IMO so he's getting huge feedback leading to higher ratings, which is all he cares about.

I have no place for Goobloob, so I've decided I'm just going to ignore every article he writes.
 
docsu said:
K
Rupp
Smith
Wooden
Calhoun
Knight
Izzo
Pitino
Self
Donovan

That's off the top of my head. I'd have to do more research on guys that came earlier than that.

You could make arguements for Roy, Calipari, Matta, or Denny Crum as well.
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Thad Matta and Crum have absolutely no argument to JB.. Wouldn't put Donovan over JB either. Calipari not near JB yet. Roy has an argument.
 
ljmilman said:
Gottlieb argues that Boeheim isn't a top 10 all-time coach. There are exactly 47 coaches with a claim to a 1 or more national titles. There are exactly 13 coaches EVER with multiple titles.

Just using a brief scan of sports-reference:

-Is Phil Woolpert of University of San Francisco (9 years, 2 titles, 3 final fours 153-78, .662%) better than JB?
-Is Branch McCracken of Indiana (24 years, 2 titles, 2 final fours, 364-174, .677%) better?
-Is Ed Jucker of Cincy (6 years, 2 titles, 3 final fours, 3 ncaa berths, 121-44, .733%) better?
-Heck, Hank Iba had just 2 titles in 40 years, and went 752-333 (.693%).

No one is arguing Boeheim is definitively better than Coach K, Bobby Knight, or Adolph Rupp here. Personally, I think most of us are being reasonable. JB has the third most victories of all time and the 9th best winning percentage (only among coaches with 450+ victories), and is literally a Keith Smart jumper from being in an elite group of 14 coaches with multiple titles (at least 3-4 of which he's ALREADY better than).

Bottom line: I say JB belongs in the top 10. If Gottlieb wants to make his argument to the contrary, that's fine. I want to know where JB ranks on Gottlieb's list of coaches then. Because in my opinion, Boeheim has to be at absolute worst top 15-20 (which would STILL make him an all-time great coach), or else the person making the list is simply insane.
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Woolpert, no. He had a couple of players named Russell and Jones who made most of his reputation.
Jucker, a better than average coach who still had a great deal of help from a guy by the name of Robertson.

Iba and McCracken are another story. Hard to compare coaches in different eras. But, these two were excellent coaches by almost anyones standards. Personnally, I would rate either one over several that are listed in the top 20 lists on this thread.
 
We Are Syracuse said:
Thad Matta and Crum have absolutely no argument to JB.. Wouldn't put Donovan over JB either. Calipari not near JB yet. Roy has an argument.
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Donovan has accomplished more than JB in a shorter time (19 seasons)...and part of that tenure was spent turning around an absolute garbage Marshall team.
 
Brad Stevens deserves to be on the list over matta even. What Stevens has done at Butler is remarkable.
 
docsu said:
Donovan has accomplished more than JB in a shorter time (19 seasons)...and part of that tenure was spent turning around an absolute garbage Marshall team.
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Eh, florida sucked three years after those two national championships. Heard ramblings about even canning him as ridiculous as that sounds. Agree he has done a ton over short time. He has them right direction now too. It's close.
 
docsu said:
K
Rupp
Smith
Wooden
Calhoun
Knight
Izzo
Pitino
Self
Donovan

That's off the top of my head. I'd have to do more research on guys that came earlier than that.

You could make arguements for Roy, Calipari, Matta, or Denny Crum as well.
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That's what I thought and why you are wrong and JB is top 10.

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rrlbees said:
That's what I thought and why you are wrong and JB is top 10.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
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Typical bees post stating "facts" with nothing substantiating to back his claims.
 
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