Don't worry about Dougie, I have a feeling JB will

[rrlbees]

Typical bees post stating "facts" with nothing substantiating to back his claims.

Where are your facts?

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[sendithome]

Does Dean Smith deserve to be that high? He had Wooden like talent every year, won fewer national championships than Calhoun, and had those championships handed to him by Freddie Brown and Chris Webber? The streak of sweet 16s is impressive until you remember they played early tournament games in NC and received a bye into the round of 32 for most of his tenure.

I think Smith is one of the top coaches ever (not best ever though) but you can make many of the same arguments against him as Boeheim.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Where are your facts?

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I explained why I thought Donovan and Self were better. Wooden, K, and Izzo hardly merit explanation. So go ahead, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[rrlbees]

I explained why I thought Donovan and Self were better. Wooden, K, and Izzo hardly merit explanation. So go ahead, but I won't hold my breath.

I'll give you a couple facts. Yes, Donovan has that 2nd championship when his team all chose to come back. But 1 championship doesn't negate all the advantages JB has. Sustained excellence for twice as long, better winning %, plays in a tougher conference and is more successful, USA basketball, etc. Its not JB's fault either that AO got hurt. Others recognized that with the National COY award.

Second fact is, going back a few weeks, it appears 80% of your posts have been anti JB, anti SU, anti our schedule.

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[caw]

I'm counting 16 here.

Two things are wrong with your post:

1. That is starting in 1990
2. The data is old

http://statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college

That is where the article you posted pulled their data (they mention it in the first line of the article you linked).

Jim Boeheim has been the coach at Cuse since before 1977 so you really should look at the McDonald's All American list from 1977 onwards. 1990 onwards fails to include six McDonald's All American's that Jim recruited.

The data was from at least two years ago as it has Cuse at eight since 1990 while Cuse currently stands at eleven.

Since 1977 Cuse is tied for 9th overall and is tied for 11th since 1990 with the current data.

 

[KingOtis]

I explained why I thought Donovan and Self were better. Wooden, K, and Izzo hardly merit explanation. So go ahead, but I won't hold my breath.

Why is Izzo a better coach than JB? Because he's made more Final Fours? Has he made more championship games? I can't think of another sport - professional or amateur - where greatness is determined by reaching the semifinals.

Izzo's a great coach, but he inherited an established power and already has more than twice as many sub-20 win seasons as JB. His teams play an overly-physical style of basketball that's completely unwatchable. I think he's a little bit overrated.

A few other, thread-wide comments:

I don't know how anyone can say Dean Smith is a better coach than JB at this point. Smith's career was defined by consistency, and JB has eclipsed all of his records. You could say JB is the new Dean Smith: Has won a ton of games, wins 20 games and makes the tournament just about every year, hasn't won enough championships.

The NBA argument is silly (Izzo hasn't developed a lot of successful pros either), but anyone who wants to play that card should be playing the assistant coach card as well. Rick Pitino is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and he's the first branch of the Boeheim coaching tree.

 

[kingtidge]

Why is Izzo a better coach than JB? Because he's made more Final Fours? Has he made more championship games? I can't think of another sport - professional or amateur - where greatness is determined by reaching the semifinals.

Izzo's a great coach, but he inherited an established power and already has more than twice as many sub-20 win seasons as JB. His teams play an overly-physical style of basketball that's completely unwatchable. I think he's a little bit overrated.

The NBA argument is silly (Izzo hasn't developed a lot of successful pros either), but anyone who wants to play that card should be playing the assistant coach card as well. Rick Pitino is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and he's the first branch of the Boeheim coaching tree.

The jist of the argument on Izzo (as I've seen it) is this:

1. He schedules tougher out of conference games year-in, year-out.

2. He can and will lose games during the regular season by putting his players in new, uncomfortable roles and demanding they perform (albeit they don't always perform right away.)

3. By the time conference tourney time comes around, his team has taken in lumps and is usually firing on all cylinders going into the big dance.

4. Tactically, he's a better in-game coach and makes in-game counter adjustments that often work and work well.

The sum of which makes his teams consistent and dangerous deep-runners into the NCAA tourney...

I think those are the common themes on "why Izzo better..." I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but that's what I often hear...