Doom and Gloomers

[dasher]

Remember when the sanctions came down. It was the end of Syracuse basketball as we knew it. Of course it wasn't but that didn't stop people from going all in in panic mode. Hopkins was done. G would go pro. The four recruits would bail. Moyer would renege. None of that happened. The four recruits stayed firm. G stayed for his 5th year. Battle has now come to his senses. Hopkins is the next coach. And we know when. The only blemish is we lost a kid we wanted to Indiana. But that is just about made up for with the addition of Paschal Chukwu. And we also have an appeal going. We have and will survive this.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Excellent post!

That's all.

 

[triplethrea]

There was a really bad vibe on the board. We were losing top recruits and jobs were on the line. The doom and gloom was real.

Getting Battle is great, but it was a wonderful stroke of luck. Program saving commitment.

 

[NorSyr66]

Real interesting is Battle indicated a determining factor was decision for Hopkins to be next head coach. Battle said in the ESPN article: "He's a great guy who will be a terrific head coach. He's high-energy, and I'm very comfortable and confident in Coach Hop."

This is a real positive as we head into recruiting post JB.

 

[DoctorBombay]

There was a really bad vibe on the board. We were losing top recruits and jobs were on the line. The doom and gloom was real.

Getting Battle is great, but it was a wonderful stroke of luck. Program saving commitment.

All due respect...but this is nonsense.
The only "real" thing is that the "glass half empty" crowd had a great cathartic moment to revel in their pessimism.
At some point, whether they believe it or not, it's good to remember that we ARE an elite program. There are those, fueled largely by their own insecurities, who see the Cuse as small time or never measuring up. That is the quintessential Syracuse insecurity at play.
It's not orange-colored-glasses that determine who we are as an institution, and a program.
If the doom&gloomers can't see that, that's on them. We were never going anywhere. Period.

 

[dasher]

There was a really bad vibe on the board. We were losing top recruits and jobs were on the line. The doom and gloom was real.

Getting Battle is great, but it was a wonderful stroke of luck. Program saving commitment.

That wasn't true when it was posted after the sanctions and it sure isn't true now. There was no luck in getting Battle. We have been on him for years. He got wowed by his Mich. visit. Good for them. he wasn't likely to stick with his verbal as time went on from his visit there. Good for us. Luck had nothing to do with it. We will continue to recruit at a high level. If we didn't get Battle, we would have found fortune with one of two other guys.

 

[jekelish]

The only thing we've "lost" is Thomas Bryant at this point. Obviously our recruiting is a little different - and we may not wind up being able to snag Kevin Huerter, for example - but otherwise, the doom and gloom was pointless because we're almost exactly where we all thought we'd be.

 

[kuethstheman]

I get pessimism. Except for a meager few, top programs come and go. Things really did look bad.

I don't get:
Calling out posters that imply they have (positive) inside info just because their posts aren't notarized.
Calling out posters who were frightened about the state of the program (I realize the OP really didn't call anyone out but other posts have)

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Sure. So, let's never have a non-pollyanna-ish reaction to anything. Let's never acknowledge our sins, while continuing to rag on other programs, as if our feces were always most fragrant.

You're lumping everyone into one cesspool, and that's automatically inaccurate. "Do0m and gloom?" We've been singled-out in the national media for transgressions deemed worthy of significant sanctions. No one was ever going to know how much of an impact that was going to have, and we still don't know what the impact will be. Suggesting that because we got Battle (finally) means there was no impact is as silly as thinking the program was going to fold entirely.

Saying there was no "luck" involved in the Battle Resolution is probably just a matter of semantics. Define "luck." Even saying "we will continue to recruit at a high level" is a matter of semantics. High, compared to what? When i think of "high," i think of Duke, Kentucky, and then NC and Arizona. Then there are a lot of other teams after that, in which, we mix. Battle is a great get, but he's a "top 25 kid," not a #2 like Duke just signed. Moyer is already my favorite millennial Orange, but he's not in the top 25. So, "high" is relative either to competition or to personal expectations. We don't meet my personal expectations, so while I'm gratified, grateful, relieved, (bordering on-) happy that we have Moyer and Battle, I still recognize we still are on the lower end of the hill, looking up at Duke in-conference, and we don't really approach their year-in, year-out talent level. That's just realistic. A lot of people here don't like realism. And, somehow they deem it anti-fanatical to mention gloom-related matters. Orange glasses come in a variety of tints. Some of us just wear the orange frames, with clear lenses.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Sure. So, let's never have a non-pollyanna-ish reaction to anything. Let's never acknowledge our sins, while continuing to rag on other programs, as if our feces were always most fragrant.

You're lumping everyone into one cesspool, and that's automatically inaccurate. "Do0m and gloom?" We've been singled-out in the national media for transgressions deemed worthy of significant sanctions. No one was ever going to know how much of an impact that was going to have, and we still don't know what the impact will be. Suggesting that because we got Battle (finally) means there was no impact is as silly as thinking the program was going to fold entirely.

Saying there was no "luck" involved in the Battle Resolution is probably just a matter of semantics. Define "luck." Even saying "we will continue to recruit at a high level" is a matter of semantics. High, compared to what? When i think of "high," i think of Duke, Kentucky, and then NC and Arizona. Then there are a lot of other teams after that, in which, we mix. Battle is a great get, but he's a "top 25 kid," not a #2 like Duke just signed. Moyer is already my favorite millennial Orange, but he's not in the top 25. So, "high" is relative either to competition or to personal expectations. We don't meet my personal expectations, so while I'm gratified, grateful, relieved, (bordering on-) happy that we have Moyer and Battle, I still recognize we still are on the lower end of the hill, looking up at Duke in-conference, and we don't really approach their year-in, year-out talent level. That's just realistic. A lot of people here don't like realism. And, somehow they deem it anti-fanatical to mention gloom-related matters. Orange glasses come in a variety of tints. Some of us just wear the orange frames, with clear lenses.

Everybody is looking up to Duke right now in the ACC. If we have the 2nd or third best talent, I'll take that. Remember when we scored Fab Melo, and Louisville ended up with Gorgui Dieng? Who ended up winning the national title and went to two final fours?

Moyer is top 25 on some lists.

We have a shot with Porter who is #2 in 17. Yes, I'm being realistic.

I was a doom and gloomer after Battle committed to Michigan.

 

[dasher]

Sure. So, let's never have a non-pollyanna-ish reaction to anything. Let's never acknowledge our sins, while continuing to rag on other programs, as if our feces were always most fragrant.

You're lumping everyone into one cesspool, and that's automatically inaccurate. "Do0m and gloom?" We've been singled-out in the national media for transgressions deemed worthy of significant sanctions. No one was ever going to know how much of an impact that was going to have, and we still don't know what the impact will be. Suggesting that because we got Battle (finally) means there was no impact is as silly as thinking the program was going to fold entirely.

Saying there was no "luck" involved in the Battle Resolution is probably just a matter of semantics. Define "luck." Even saying "we will continue to recruit at a high level" is a matter of semantics. High, compared to what? When i think of "high," i think of Duke, Kentucky, and then NC and Arizona. Then there are a lot of other teams after that, in which, we mix. Battle is a great get, but he's a "top 25 kid," not a #2 like Duke just signed. Moyer is already my favorite millennial Orange, but he's not in the top 25. So, "high" is relative either to competition or to personal expectations. We don't meet my personal expectations, so while I'm gratified, grateful, relieved, (bordering on-) happy that we have Moyer and Battle, I still recognize we still are on the lower end of the hill, looking up at Duke in-conference, and we don't really approach their year-in, year-out talent level. That's just realistic. A lot of people here don't like realism. And, somehow they deem it anti-fanatical to mention gloom-related matters. Orange glasses come in a variety of tints. Some of us just wear the orange frames, with clear lenses.

One, I singled out what type of posts were doom and gloom. maybe you didn't get that part. I didn't lump anyone in anything. There was way too much negativity after the sanctions. That has turned out to be a fact not an opinion. We didn't lose all of our recruits as some suggested. G didn't go pro, as some said he would. We did get Battle. No luck was involved. It doesn't work that way. Years of hard work were rewarded. Everyone thinks they look at things through clear eyes. including you. Most view things through their own biases and experience. Including you.

 

[billsin01]

Sure. So, let's never have a non-pollyanna-ish reaction to anything. Let's never acknowledge our sins, while continuing to rag on other programs, as if our feces were always most fragrant.

You're lumping everyone into one cesspool, and that's automatically inaccurate. "Do0m and gloom?" We've been singled-out in the national media for transgressions deemed worthy of significant sanctions. No one was ever going to know how much of an impact that was going to have, and we still don't know what the impact will be. Suggesting that because we got Battle (finally) means there was no impact is as silly as thinking the program was going to fold entirely.

Saying there was no "luck" involved in the Battle Resolution is probably just a matter of semantics. Define "luck." Even saying "we will continue to recruit at a high level" is a matter of semantics. High, compared to what? When i think of "high," i think of Duke, Kentucky, and then NC and Arizona. Then there are a lot of other teams after that, in which, we mix. Battle is a great get, but he's a "top 25 kid," not a #2 like Duke just signed. Moyer is already my favorite millennial Orange, but he's not in the top 25. So, "high" is relative either to competition or to personal expectations. We don't meet my personal expectations, so while I'm gratified, grateful, relieved, (bordering on-) happy that we have Moyer and Battle, I still recognize we still are on the lower end of the hill, looking up at Duke in-conference, and we don't really approach their year-in, year-out talent level. That's just realistic. A lot of people here don't like realism. And, somehow they deem it anti-fanatical to mention gloom-related matters. Orange glasses come in a variety of tints. Some of us just wear the orange frames, with clear lenses.

Nice post. This is always the issue with internet forums, right? I mean you get a crew that will refuse to see a downside or a reality -- however you want to classify it -- and you get a crew that somehow thinks we should win the national title every year and if we don't, then the finger is going to pointed at someone or some group of people or some event.

The bottom line is that the sanctions and some of the controversies surrounding the program absolutely did -- and still do -- pose at least a temporary threat to Syracuse's standing as a top-10 type program. What's important for the pessimists to understand is that with no exceptions, programs tend to go through really, really, really healthy, strong stretches as well as some stretches that yield at least relative struggles (as we saw last year). It's almost impossible to just pencil a team in for 30 wins, a top 2 or 3 seed every single year from now through whenever. And even when a program is rolling, stuff happens and the plan hits unexpected roadblocks (academics, early departures, suspensions, etc.).

As for the rosy glass crowd, it's best to understand that taking a step back and trying to be at least a little less subjective at times can yield a much clearer and true appraisal of the team and the program.

Somewhere in the middle is the place to be ... but then again this is an internet forum so I doubt we'll ever see a time when relative objectivity and informed giving is the norm for all posters.

 

[dasher]

Nice post. This is always the issue with internet forums, right? I mean you get a crew that will refuse to see a downside or a reality -- however you want to classify it -- and you get a crew that somehow thinks we should win the national title every year and if we don't, then the finger is going to pointed at someone or some group of people or some event.

The bottom line is that the sanctions and some of the controversies surrounding the program absolutely did -- and still do -- pose at least a temporary threat to Syracuse's standing as a top-10 type program. What's important for the pessimists to understand is that with no exceptions, programs tend to go through really, really, really healthy, strong stretches as well as some stretches that yield at least relative struggles (as we saw last year). It's almost impossible to just pencil a team in for 30 wins, a top 2 or 3 seed every single year from now through whenever. And even when a program is rolling, stuff happens and the plan hits unexpected roadblocks (academics, early departures, suspensions, etc.).

As for the rosy glass crowd, it's best to understand that taking a step back and trying to be at least a little less subjective at times can yield a much clearer and true appraisal of the team and the program.

Somewhere in the middle is the place to be ... but then again this is an internet forum so I doubt we'll ever see a time when relative objectivity and informed giving is the norm for all posters.

Did my original post say that? Of course the sanctions are going to cause us a setback. That really goes without saying. My point was directed at the posts of people who thought we were doomed. As I said, the posts about our recruits bailing, G leaving, Moyer reneging. That isn't a setback. That is death. And that wasn't and isn't going to happen.

 

[skurey]

 

[shandeezy7]

Sure. So, let's never have a non-pollyanna-ish reaction to anything. Let's never acknowledge our sins, while continuing to rag on other programs, as if our feces were always most fragrant.

You're lumping everyone into one cesspool, and that's automatically inaccurate. "Do0m and gloom?" We've been singled-out in the national media for transgressions deemed worthy of significant sanctions. No one was ever going to know how much of an impact that was going to have, and we still don't know what the impact will be. Suggesting that because we got Battle (finally) means there was no impact is as silly as thinking the program was going to fold entirely.

Saying there was no "luck" involved in the Battle Resolution is probably just a matter of semantics. Define "luck." Even saying "we will continue to recruit at a high level" is a matter of semantics. High, compared to what? When i think of "high," i think of Duke, Kentucky, and then NC and Arizona. Then there are a lot of other teams after that, in which, we mix. Battle is a great get, but he's a "top 25 kid," not a #2 like Duke just signed. Moyer is already my favorite millennial Orange, but he's not in the top 25. So, "high" is relative either to competition or to personal expectations. We don't meet my personal expectations, so while I'm gratified, grateful, relieved, (bordering on-) happy that we have Moyer and Battle, I still recognize we still are on the lower end of the hill, looking up at Duke in-conference, and we don't really approach their year-in, year-out talent level. That's just realistic. A lot of people here don't like realism. And, somehow they deem it anti-fanatical to mention gloom-related matters. Orange glasses come in a variety of tints. Some of us just wear the orange frames, with clear lenses.

Someone in this thread legit said that Tyus Battle was a "program saving" recruit. Basically, if we didn't get him, our program would be in the toilet. That's not realism. That's straight up doom and gloom pessimism.

 

[billsin01]

Did my original post say that? Of course the sanctions are going to cause us a setback. That really goes without saying. My point was directed at the posts of people who thought we were doomed. As I said, the posts about our recruits bailing, G leaving, Moyer reneging. That isn't a setback. That is death. And that wasn't and isn't going to happen.

I hear ya brutha. I was more trying to say that for as long as I've posted on the hoops board there are a ton of posters who are way over the top one way or the other an a wide variety of issues. I try to just sift through those to find the best posts b/c otherwise it's easy to get in no-win battles with posters who only see Orange or will go to their graves believe that JB is actually a terrible coach.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Did my original post say that? Of course the sanctions are going to cause us a setback. That really goes without saying. My point was directed at the posts of people who thought we were doomed. As I said, the posts about our recruits bailing, G leaving, Moyer reneging. That isn't a setback. That is death. And that wasn't and isn't going to happen.

Exactly.
My issue is/was not about whether prudence and caution were unwarranted, rather it's the almost knee-jerk reaction of the doom&gloomers to the worst possible scenario on the table.
Of course I was concerned- but it's a far cry from showing genuine concern vs being ready to proclaim the program on its last legs. That is, was, and always will be SILLY, IMO.
I was less concerned after the penalties were announced than I was before- since it was obvious they weren't close to being "program killing". Would it set us back, sure? But I can't apologize for seeing the glass half full in those kinds of circumstances. Btw- the same folks ready to see the worst possible scenario w/ basketball, are also ready to proclaim the football program as "dead", & never to be recovered. It's just not my make-up to always believe the worst case scenario...something my wife LOVES to do and which always leads to"interesting" discussions between us.
Just not how I roll. :noidea:

 

[CU44SE]

if were being honest, last year was not an enjoyable year for Syracuse basketball. The cloud that hung over the season was absolutely miserable and the product on the floor wasn't much better. I bleed orange, but it was tough to withstand. You didn't know how invested to get because you didn't think there would be a tournament but yet you knew they needed to perform better if their would be a tournament. Personally I would just like to forget the last year and pretend it didn't even happen. Today is a new day and a new year for Syracuse basketball. It will be another year before Mr. Battle steps on the floor but the program is again on the upswing, no denying that.

 

[Dave85]

That wasn't true when it was posted after the sanctions and it sure isn't true now. There was no luck in getting Battle. We have been on him for years. He got wowed by his Mich. visit. Good for them. he wasn't likely to stick with his verbal as time went on from his visit there. Good for us. Luck had nothing to do with it. We will continue to recruit at a high level. If we didn't get Battle, we would have found fortune with one of two other guys.

The whole first visit and commitment to Michigan reminded me of my first wife. And then I came to my senses just like Battle did. It all worked out in the end!

 

[Dave85]

if were being honest, last year was not an enjoyable year for Syracuse basketball. The cloud that hung over the season was absolutely miserable and the product on the floor wasn't much better. I bleed orange, but it was tough to withstand. You didn't know how invested to get because you didn't think there would be a tournament but yet you knew they needed to perform better if their would be a tournament. Personally I would just like to forget the last year and pretend it didn't even happen. Today is a new day and a new year for Syracuse basketball. It will be another year before Mr. Battle steps on the floor but the program is again on the upswing, no denying that.

I share your sentiments but we have a lot to be thankful for last season. I can sum it up in one word: Christmas.

 

[AZOrange]

Everybody is looking up to Duke right now in the ACC. If we have the 2nd or third best talent, I'll take that. Remember when we scored Fab Melo, and Louisville ended up with Gorgui Dieng? Who ended up winning the national title and went to two final fours? Moyer is top 25 on some lists. We have a shot with Porter who is #2 in 17. Yes, I'm being realistic. I was a doom and gloomer after Battle committed to Michigan.

Porter is coming here. Fuggedheboutit.

 

[longtimefan]

Sure. So, let's never have a non-pollyanna-ish reaction to anything. Let's never acknowledge our sins, while continuing to rag on other programs, as if our feces were always most fragrant.

You're lumping everyone into one cesspool, and that's automatically inaccurate. "Do0m and gloom?" We've been singled-out in the national media for transgressions deemed worthy of significant sanctions. No one was ever going to know how much of an impact that was going to have, and we still don't know what the impact will be. Suggesting that because we got Battle (finally) means there was no impact is as silly as thinking the program was going to fold entirely.

Saying there was no "luck" involved in the Battle Resolution is probably just a matter of semantics. Define "luck." Even saying "we will continue to recruit at a high level" is a matter of semantics. High, compared to what? When i think of "high," i think of Duke, Kentucky, and then NC and Arizona. Then there are a lot of other teams after that, in which, we mix. Battle is a great get, but he's a "top 25 kid," not a #2 like Duke just signed. Moyer is already my favorite millennial Orange, but he's not in the top 25. So, "high" is relative either to competition or to personal expectations. We don't meet my personal expectations, so while I'm gratified, grateful, relieved, (bordering on-) happy that we have Moyer and Battle, I still recognize we still are on the lower end of the hill, looking up at Duke in-conference, and we don't really approach their year-in, year-out talent level. That's just realistic. A lot of people here don't like realism. And, somehow they deem it anti-fanatical to mention gloom-related matters. Orange glasses come in a variety of tints. Some of us just wear the orange frames, with clear lenses.

Re: Battle's and Moyer's "numbers "(and those of every other kid with remaining high school eligibility)--the final numbers have not yet been calculated.

Re: Duke--Now that K has embraced the one-and-done system, everyone else (including Kentucky) will be looking up at them. (It will be interesting to see what happens when Duke needs a new coach.) I like where SU is positioned right now. I think the Orange, UVa and Louisville will be the second tier in the ACC in the short term, passing UNC.

 

[andyw715]

Real interesting is Battle indicated a determining factor was decision for Hopkins to be next head coach. Battle said in the ESPN article: "He's a great guy who will be a terrific head coach. He's high-energy, and I'm very comfortable and confident in Coach Hop."

This is a real positive as we head into recruiting post JB.

That sounds like a real committed commit to me No one and done with this one.

 

[FrancoPizza]

You didn't know how invested to get because you didn't think there would be a tournament but yet you knew they needed to perform better if their would be a tournament.

Sort of like how we're taking the battle news in stride, because we're waiting for the shoe to drop with Diagne?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

One, I singled out what type of posts were doom and gloom. maybe you didn't get that part. I didn't lump anyone in anything. There was way too much negativity after the sanctions. That has turned out to be a fact not an opinion. We didn't lose all of our recruits as some suggested. G didn't go pro, as some said he would. We did get Battle. No luck was involved. It doesn't work that way. Years of hard work were rewarded. Everyone thinks they look at things through clear eyes. including you. Most view things through their own biases and experience. Including you.

• You singled out what TYPE OF POSTS. That's a set of generalizations right there. No one person is entirely one thing or another. Failure to discern nuance in an argument or discussions is a problem.
• In this post, you're confirming the second problem: that YOU have decided you are the arbiter of what is acceptable in terms of positivity or negativity. Face it — in an internet forum, neither is actually constructive. And, no, it's not a "fact" that you have decided there "was way too much negativity." That's, just, like your opinion, man.
• You have no idea what recruits were lost. For any given year. The factors that go into a kid's decision are rarely singular, and thinking you know which factors are most significant is ridiculous. Even if the kid TELLS you one thing, you can't count that as truth. My own parents still don't know what my actual criteriae were for choosing Syracuse, and i'm closer to them than any recruitnik is to any recruit. This also speaks to the future. Someone, somewhere has been put off by our issues. And, even Porter, who says he doesn't even know what we may have done has been affected negatively by them. Whether we overcome that or not is something to be seen, but it is already a factor.
• I guess you don't know what i mean by my comment on how we define "luck." You must be anti-semantic.
• I completely agree that i have biases. I recognize them. I acknowledge them. I embrace them. I haven't expressed any of them in this thread or in others regarding the sanctions. I've deliberately been off the forum for a good long time, because the discussion was so juvenile at times. So, even though i have biases, and still feel horribly about the loss of esteem in our national reputation, i avoided polluting the forum with those thoughts. But, if you ask me, what's worse than people expressing heartfelt feelings about a program that went through some difficult days? It's people starting sanctimonious 'told ya so' threads and telling other fans they aren't 'true fans' because they don't staple pom-poms to their palms.