Dordevic

[PhatOrange]

I do admit the Midfield depth SU appeared to have on paper did not come though in the actual season. That said I would have to think with essentially everyone returning save for Carlin who really made little to no impact the depth should be a lot better. Guys like Magnan and Quinn will have another year in the system (Magnan especially) not to mention Fiorini, the Kim Twins plus Levandowski and Rosa.

A lot of numbers we just don't know how good they'll be as no one impacted from the word go. So we'll see. I'd expect big leaps from the sophs to juniors.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I love the size of Seebold and Berkman but they've got to show something before they can be penciled in. Aburn and Nelson TDB.

Camden Hay is my wildcard. Big lefty attackman (6'+ 190) who's played at the highest levels of high school and club. Can he come in and nail it down?

I do believe Cook grabs a starting spot next season and will develop. He has a high IQ and elite quickness. Two things that can't be taught. He will learn to play with his size and will learn how to make that an advantage.

Dordevic seems like he could move.

The midfield I like to see Curry, Dordevic and Buttermore. Obviously Trimboli isn't going anywhere and will start.

1's Curry, Trimboli, and/or Dordevic, Lipka/Buttermore.

After the first line it's a crapshoot. Figure Lipka and Buttermore are in the top 6. ne thing I really like about the rest of our middies is size. Magnan, Fiorini (bville one), Kims all BIG.

If you go under the premise that Dordevic will be sucessfully moved I think you have to figure a starting 6 looking as follows:

Attack
Rehfuss - Sr
Cook - Soph
Dordevic (R Soph

Midfield
Trimbo - Sr
Curry - Jr
Buttermore - Jr

2nd line
Lipka
and then some combo of Magnan, Quinn, Fiorini, the Kims, Levandowski etc.

 

[PhatOrange]

FYI, Hay is in the ‘20 class with one more year of HS left. Also, just so everyone’s on the same page because he’s transferred twice & redshirted, Jake Nelson will be a 5th yr senior with 1 season of eligibility remaining. I just keep seeing people lump him in with our “young players”.

thought he entered this fall. my bad. thanks! (and that sucks)

 

[JeremyCuse]

thought he entered this fall. my bad. thanks! (and that sucks)

Yup he's one of the early recruiting guys who didn't flip. I know Albany was sniffing around so the quicker he signs his LOI this fall the better. A couple interesting attack guys in that class.

 

[PhatOrange]

If you go under the premise that Dordevic will be sucessfully moved I think you have to figure a starting 6 looking as follows:

Attack
Rehfuss - Sr
Cook - Soph
Dordevic (R Soph

Midfield
Trimbo - Sr
Curry - Jr
Buttermore - Jr

2nd line
Lipka
and then some combo of Magnan, Quinn, Fiorini, the Kims, Levandowski etc.

yup that's exactly how I'd call it. (could flip flop lipka/buttermore but either way.)

 

[PhatOrange]

Dordevic was an All-American too

my point was that Mariano was a HS All-American attackman at Yorktown HS and led Section 1 in scoring. Not in Oregon. Tucker is a great player I think thats obvious.

 

[CuseAlum87]

If Dordevic does indeed move to attack, how about using Cook the same way UVA uses Laviano? Not a true crease attackman but quick and shifty to backdoor his man off the wings. Plus, he could dodge from the wing. Voigt had an outstanding senior season, really surprised me with his production but, i would like to see a more versatile third attackman. Just throwing thoughts out there.

 

[Laxwizard22]

As awesome as I think it would be to have a stud X attackman this year, I don’t know if it’s 100% necessary for final four type succes this yr. When Duke moved Smith up to the midfield, they essentially had 3 crease attackmen starting. They just kept them down on the pipes to keep good spacing, and ran their offense through the midfield. We could probably get away with this next year due to having hopefully 2 really good midfield lines that are well coached
I think finding that next big stud at attack is a bigger issue down the road when we lose some of that quality depth, and then we could be in trouble. I agree that having that one “go to” guy is huge, but I feel like it could just as well come from Dordevic from the midfield.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Ironically, Duke’s offense improved greatly when Smith moved back to the midfield.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If Dordevic does indeed move to attack, how about using Cook the same way UVA uses Laviano? Not a true crease attackman but quick and shifty to backdoor his man off the wings. Plus, he could dodge from the wing. Voigt had an outstanding senior season, really surprised me with his production but, i would like to see a more versatile third attackman. Just throwing thoughts out there.

I don't think Cook has the finishing ability of Laviano (he's at an elite level) but he will definitely be a much more rounded attackmen. Voigt had a great Sr season but his inability to dodge whatsover hurt the offense as it allowed teams to double pole and give up a couple goals to Voigt but not worry about a massive game from him as he wasn't going to rack up 3-4 assists. Cook can dodge and shoot and I think will make a good transition to attack where he belongs.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Ironically, Duke’s offense improved greatly when Smith moved back to the midfield.

SU will have to be careful not to square peg round circle this thing. If its clear Dordevic isn't comfortable or the production isn't there we have to pull the plug and deal with it. Smith's issue was that he was drawing everyone's top defender and I don't think he was used to all the attention despite being poled up top. Mellen shut him down.

 

[ivorytower]

Laviano has sick hands...Hill is closest

Hill's hands and quick release are probably most comparable to Laviano . His strengths are brought to light playing off Krauss and Moore.

In hs, Dordevic and Curry played both mf and attack (as did Lipka and Buttermore). Either would add the dimension of a strong dodger with the ability to separate but slides would come so reasonable to question passing abilities adapting to attack. Thought Tiffany was nuts to drop Moore but it was smart, he not only adjusted but became even more valuable to offense . My guess is our mids would adapt as well given their abilities. Curry straight out speed may work better up top while Dordevic jukes and strength may be more suited and beneficial to the makeup of our attack. Do think any shift should start in fall.



Based off performance the only given at attack should be Refhuss. If a mid drops down, assume 3rd spot is lCook's to lose. Hopefully ready to blossom but prefer open competion for minutes as intrigued by Seebold's size around crease and Aburn quietly productive game . Expecting unit to employ at least four man rotation however the minutes are mixed. No idea about incoming but expect most frosh to spend year developing .

Same productive foursome returns to fill first mid line and lead second. . 2nd and 3rd lines are deeper as young talent has a year of development under their belt. . Dami is gonna beast somewhere whether that be at dm or om and Quinn will hopefully stay healthy. Do like the size and abilities of the Kims and Fiorini.

 

[CuSeLaX]

it is extremely hard to win a national championship without an elite dodging attackman. It’s clear the Rehfuss is a very capable #2 attackman. Cook has a chance but he’s not as fast as a Joey Sankey or Jordan Wolf, his best case is Kevin Rice but his size is a huge issue due to him not having elite speed. Let’s be honest here the elite attackman can play and play well as a freshman and he was just okay. He did have the struggle of moving around as Jeremy pointed out but the truly elite attackman start as freshman and have much better production. Dordevic had Elite freshman midfield numbers. He Absolutely was on his way to being an elite midfielder. But I think some of us are forgetting how much of a backfire it was having Mariano play attack. He had a good first game that year ( so did a certain #22 who never panned out ). And they moved him back to midfield because he struggled being defended by a #1 close defender. If you go back and watch the tape his move to attack was not a success story. Matt Moore had (19,15) freshman year at midfield at UVA. Tucker (15,5), Curry (10,7). Matt Moore is more like Curry than Dordevic in style of play and goal to assist ratio, but neither Curry or Dordevic are on his level at this time. The real issue here is that Syracuse has no option other than to dip into the midfield. However I’m glad there is some forward thinking if these rumors are true.

 

[ivorytower]

it is extremely hard to win a national championship without an elite dodging attackman. It’s clear the Rehfuss is a very capable #2 attackman. Cook has a chance but he’s not as fast as a Joey Sankey or Jordan Wolf, his best case is Kevin Rice but his size is a huge issue due to him not having elite speed. Let’s be honest here the elite attackman can play and play well as a freshman and he was just okay. He did have the struggle of moving around as Jeremy pointed out but the truly elite attackman start as freshman and have much better production. Dordevic had Elite freshman midfield numbers. He Absolutely was on his way to being an elite midfielder. But I think some of us are forgetting how much of a backfire it was having Mariano play attack. He had a good first game that year ( so did a certain #22 who never panned out ). And they moved him back to midfield because he struggled being defended by a #1 close defender. If you go back and watch the tape his move to attack was not a success story. Matt Moore had (19,15) freshman year at midfield at UVA. Tucker (15,5), Curry (10,7). Matt Moore is more like Curry than Dordevic in style of play and goal to assist ratio, but neither Curry or Dordevic are on his level at this time. The real issue here is that Syracuse has no option other than to dip into the midfield. However I’m glad there is some forward thinking if these rumors are true.

Agree, nothing ventured nothing gained

 

[CuseNHouse]

FYI, Hay is in the ‘20 class with one more year of HS left. Also, just so everyone’s on the same page because he’s transferred twice & redshirted, Jake Nelson will be a 5th yr senior with 1 season of eligibility remaining. I just keep seeing people lump him in with our “young players”.

Jake Nelson has not really been given a fair shake IMO. I’ve watched him twice in person - scrimmages and he’s done some pretty crafty things out there. Has also contributed in games with limited PT...has equal or more points than Seebold with a fraction of the time on the field

 

[Powellfan]

Reading through comments and having hard time disagreeing with anyone. I honestly don't know what the right or wrong answer is in regards to what to do with the attack next year. However, I'm in favor of moving Dordevic down to the attack for the following reasons - I don't necessarily trust the current reserve attackmen on roster (Cook, Berkman, Seebold), I think Dordevic's game translates pretty well to the attack position, and I don't think the offense can afford to have two of the top six players on the bench for extended periods of time. I totally understand the arguments against moving him, but I just feel like we need the best players on the field for the longest amounts of time. It is great to have a depth on the second midfield line, but in crunch time you can only play six guys. I'm also in favor of moving Buttermore to the first line, I think he is just too talented to play with the second unit. I like Lipka but can't help but feel he missed a lot of opportunities last year, especially since he was matched up with the teams' sixth best defender.

One concern I have is that you are loading the attack with "play maker" types. The unit still lacks a true quarterback. However, you could argue a lot of very good offenses last year did not have a quarterback and still put up very good numbers last year - Virginia, Maryland and Yale come to mind first. Maybe the Orange don't have a player with 50+ assists, but between Curry and Rhefuss I think you can still have a team that has strong facilitators.

Ultimately, I think it will come down to who has improved the most in the offeseason. If an attackman does indeed come back and blow the socks off the coaches, then Dordevic might be best served staying at midfield. But again, I have a hard time thinking two of the before mentioned group are going to come back and be ready to contribute starting-unit numbers.

 

[Abclaxfan]

Reading through comments and having hard time disagreeing with anyone. I honestly don't know what the right or wrong answer is in regards to what to do with the attack next year. However, I'm in favor of moving Dordevic down to the attack for the following reasons - I don't necessarily trust the current reserve attackmen on roster (Cook, Berkman, Seebold), I think Dordevic's game translates pretty well to the attack position, and I don't think the offense can afford to have two of the top six players on the bench for extended periods of time. I totally understand the arguments against moving him, but I just feel like we need the best players on the field for the longest amounts of time. It is great to have a depth on the second midfield line, but in crunch time you can only play six guys. I'm also in favor of moving Buttermore to the first line, I think he is just too talented to play with the second unit. I like Lipka but can't help but feel he missed a lot of opportunities last year, especially since he was matched up with the teams' sixth best defender.

One concern I have is that you are loading the attack with "play maker" types. The unit still lacks a true quarterback. However, you could argue a lot of very good offenses last year did not have a quarterback and still put up very good numbers last year - Virginia, Maryland and Yale come to mind first. Maybe the Orange don't have a player with 50+ assists, but between Curry and Rhefuss I think you can still have a team that has strong facilitators.

Ultimately, I think it will come down to who has improved the most in the offeseason. If an attackman does indeed come back and blow the socks off the coaches, then Dordevic might be best served staying at midfield. But again, I have a hard time thinking two of the before mentioned group are going to come back and be ready to contribute starting-unit numbers.

I agree 100%. The biggest thing is if someone is going to step up from the shadows. Cook played decent amount at both attack and midfield and looks to replace one of the missing attack spots but he definitely still has to earn it. We all know Seebold was highly touted coming out of high school and has one goal in two years. Berkman broke all Florida scoring records. Hill/Aburn could potentially replace Voigt if Desko wants a finisher. There’s also a few freshmen attack coming in that are kind of under the radar. I think this summer is huge for all the attack to take their games to the next level and improve and prove themselves as starters because if they don’t then we'll be in trouble or they won’t play.

On another note I’m a huge fan of Buttermore and I think he needs to be on the field as much as possible. I loved it this past year when he played with the first line because he never got the pole and always abused short sticks. If Dordevic moves to attack I think the first line of Curry Trimboli and Buttermore would cause match up nightmares.

 

[sholokov2]

Reading through comments and having hard time disagreeing with anyone. I honestly don't know what the right or wrong answer is in regards to what to do with the attack next year. However, I'm in favor of moving Dordevic down to the attack for the following reasons - I don't necessarily trust the current reserve attackmen on roster (Cook, Berkman, Seebold), I think Dordevic's game translates pretty well to the attack position, and I don't think the offense can afford to have two of the top six players on the bench for extended periods of time. I totally understand the arguments against moving him, but I just feel like we need the best players on the field for the longest amounts of time. It is great to have a depth on the second midfield line, but in crunch time you can only play six guys. I'm also in favor of moving Buttermore to the first line, I think he is just too talented to play with the second unit. I like Lipka but can't help but feel he missed a lot of opportunities last year, especially since he was matched up with the teams' sixth best defender.

One concern I have is that you are loading the attack with "play maker" types. The unit still lacks a true quarterback. However, you could argue a lot of very good offenses last year did not have a quarterback and still put up very good numbers last year - Virginia, Maryland and Yale come to mind first. Maybe the Orange don't have a player with 50+ assists, but between Curry and Rhefuss I think you can still have a team that has strong facilitators.

Ultimately, I think it will come down to who has improved the most in the offeseason. If an attackman does indeed come back and blow the socks off the coaches, then Dordevic might be best served staying at midfield. But again, I have a hard time thinking two of the before mentioned group are going to come back and be ready to contribute starting-unit numbers.

I think the discussion of Dordevic's position is based on a questionable premise. It depends on the notion that he is completely recovered from his injury and back to his pre injury athletic abilities. Think Conrad, who did not fully return to form until about half way through this season. It took him almost a season and a half to recover his agility and speed, and I believe his offensive confidence. Remember some of our past attacks who returned from knee injuries. They were not the same players until at least one full season back in the lineup. I would leave Dordevic out of prospective first teamers until we watch him through next preseason.

 

[ivorytower]

Not a knee injury. He'll be fine

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

The question of his position was brought up initially by someone who seemed to have inside information from the player or coaching staff.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I think the discussion of Dordevic's position is based on a questionable premise. It depends on the notion that he is completely recovered from his injury and back to his pre injury athletic abilities. Think Conrad, who did not fully return to form until about half way through this season. It took him almost a season and a half to recover his agility and speed, and I believe his offensive confidence. Remember some of our past attacks who returned from knee injuries. They were not the same players until at least one full season back in the lineup. I would leave Dordevic out of prospective first teamers until we watch him through next preseason.

Conrad didn't take a season and a half to get back to 100%. He was hurt against SU in early May 2018 and by the time we saw him again pretty much exactly a year later he was pretty close to 100%.

 

[Zepharus]

did dordevic grow up playing attack and get switched to middie at Syracuse ?

I think it's easier for a lifelong attackman to move up to the midfield than it is for a life long midfielder to drop down and play attack. It's not plug and play imo. Kids groomed at attack have spent their whole lives playing against long sticks and they've developed certain skills because of it. Inherent skills, instinctual skills. I typically don't see these things when dropping a lifelong middie down. Middies have grown up alley dodging and to then ask them to play behind cage and with one hand against a 6 foot pole is a little different animal. Some kids are elite and can handle it, some don't adjust all that great.

I'd rather we just recruit attackman and midfielders rather than move kids around.

BINGO My son played attack exclusively until they needed depth for his HS team and he struggled for a short time playing middie mostly based on stamina,, but he figured it our relatively quickly as the skills translated better up top and he was used to clearing poles. I watched the opposite happen to a kid they stuck on attack. Dude was LOST, as it looked like he couldn't play lacrosse. He couldn't get past poles and looked below avg, not to mention he was visibly uncomfortable taking hits from poles that middies just aren't used to (my kid says he cant even feel the hits to his arms anymore , he so used to it ). When on Midfield he was a stud. He struggled so much they switched him back... Dodging from X and working from behind the cage isn't instinctually for a natural middie at all.

 

[ivorytower]

Perhaps the case but Moore made switch and excelled. View potential switch similar to an inverted middy. It's Refhus role at X but Dord can dodge from behind with his speed and juking abilities whether in close or further out. Dordevic has experience at attack so would not be foreign and he's built for contact akin to Krauss. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[DoctahLexus]

In the end we know zero about the recovery time and how fast it takes to actually feel like your normal self again without knowing a good deal more about the specifics of the injury and his medical history. I feel more nervous about him getting another injury sometime during the season, than the possibility of him not fully recovering in a year, since he was said to be good to go before injuring it again before Colgate. It's tempting to think "Grant Ament recovered from his foot injury and looked 100% this year" but there are a large number of factors that could be different with Dordevic. The only thing we really know is that he is highly motivated and hard working. I am sure he has not/will not slack off in his discipline during the rehab process.

 

[JeremyCuse]

In the end we know zero about the recovery time and how fast it takes to actually feel like your normal self again without knowing a good deal more about the specifics of the injury and his medical history. I feel more nervous about him getting another injury sometime during the season, than the possibility of him not fully recovering in a year, since he was said to be good to go before injuring it again before Colgate. It's tempting to think "Grant Ament recovered from his foot injury and looked 100% this year" but there are a large number of factors that could be different with Dordevic. The only thing we really know is that he is highly motivated and hard working. I am sure he has not/will not slack off in his discipline during the rehab process.

Well I think you have to look at Dordevic's injury as totally separate from Conrads or other lax injuries. Conrad for example tore his ACL which obviously is completely different from a foot injury that appears to be somewhat chronic in nature. Trying to correlate the two is impossible as there two separate injuries and did not occur at the same time. Dordevic was hurt well before the season started and despite what was reported was never close to being "good to go" before he "re-injured" it. With most foot injuries that ultimately require surgery or in Dordevic's case a second surgery its usually a a year before they get back to or at least close to pre-injury status. You see these types of injuries a lot ie Sammy Watkins Julio Jones etc. Fracture or foot injury that teams believes surgery isn't indicated and then almost always after a few weeks or months it comes out that surgery is needed and said players season is over.

The concern with Dordevic is that he has had foot injuries before and has undergone as I understand it several surgeries. Doesn't mean he can't be at 100% by this January or that he won't have another injury to it in his career here but its definitely something to think about. I think the best best is to assume Dordevic at this current pace should at least be close to 100% by the start of his next season but will take sometime to get back into playing shape etc.