Duke Postgame Thread

[Irishsecra1]

I thought the defense played ok in the first half.
But our offense did nothing and the defense found themselves on the field an awful lot.
And they began to lose heart and just stopped competing
They were put in awful positions by the offense over and over.
I think with Angeli we win. At the very least it would have been really close.

You have to feel for Angeli, standing on the sideline, feeling helpless and desperately wanting to get on the field and right the ship.

 

[anomander]

Our running scheme is a lot like Dino’s. Too many vanilla inside runs, hoping to bust it. Not sure we have much else in the playbook since we haven’t seen it thus far.

It’s almost like this years team. No consistency. You’ll get some big runs, and then get absolutely stoned or get called for holding. Would almost be better if you could consistently get 4 ypc. Can’t figure it out how inconsistent it is.

As far as passing, not sure if this was the case or not, but it seemed we didn’t use the middle of the field as much with slants and crossing routes because it’s easier to be picked off. Seemed they were working the sidelines and from the hashes to sidelines a la Dino’s where they refused to use the middle of the field. No Villari, and none of the big plays that mostly came from the middle of the field. I actually fell asleep in the 2nd half but i might go back and watch some of the first half to see what Duke’s defense was playing.

 

[Scooch]

But we’re still only in the first half of year two of a major rebuild under Fran Brown.

I’m not sure I agree. Fran inherited a 6-6 team with some talent. Several of those guys are on NFL rosters now. Yes, he has dramatically upgraded the overall depth of the program and improved our athleticism in some units. But this was not a total rebuild.

And honestly that’s not really how college football works anymore. Not that one should expect instant greatness, but it’s not the world of 5 year rebuilds either.

Regardless that’s not why we lost today. We lost because we have a VERY QB dependent offense and the QB today was dreadful. Plus our D is rarely stout enough to win a game on their own, and today they outright collapsed.

It alright, it happens. There will be better days. I just done think today has much to do with rebuilding.

 

[dasher]

Tommy could make good throws but it was running an effective offense that hampered him. Rickie looks to be the same , and it would be better to try the Freshman Carney, then letting Rickie out there again.

Just 3 weeks ago, the board wanted Angeli out and Collins in.

 

[baggerbob]

I get what you're saying - even Greg Paulus completed 2/3 of his passes and we stunk.
But this kid was rattled, had a handful of truly awful plays. And still wound up with 24 completions for about 8 yards per catch. Not terrible; that's workable.

He threw for about 150 yards in the 2nd half. He had several nice passes to Ross, and 2 or 3 good ones to JRS. He hit the TEs for a couple nice pickups. He wasn't as awful as 5 interceptions. Bad game, but he did make plays.

3 points is a bad game, there is no way to sugarcoat it. You can't play at this level and have a QB score 3 points in 60 minutes.
You give him the first 20 minutes next week and if he turns it around fine.
If he doesn’t you make a change otherwise you might lose the entire team.

 

[atlanticuse]

Yeah, he had a couple of nice passes. But horrific turnovers. And that cost us early momentum. We never recovered from a hole. Truth be told - there's too much broken with this young man.

1) Loopy throws, then hard passes.
2) Didn't eat the ball, exposing his RB to injury (at bare minimum, loss of yards).
3) Telegraphed nearly all of his passes - he's like a high school QB.
4) He's slow.
5) Attempted the Lamar Leap, exposing himself to injury.
6) Decision-making was suspect.

Can coaching fix it? Unlikely.

 

[Sammy407]

If we lose to SMU, I say we bring back the Villaricat offense and have at it!

 

[IthacaMatt]

It’s almost like this years team. No consistency. You’ll get some big runs, and then get absolutely stoned or get called for holding. Would almost be better if you could consistently get 4 ypc. Can’t figure it out how inconsistent it is.

As far as passing, not sure if this was the case or not, but it seemed we didn’t use the middle of the field as much with slants and crossing routes because it’s easier to be picked off. Seemed they were working the sidelines and from the hashes to sidelines a la Dino’s where they refused to use the middle of the field. No Villari, and none of the big plays that mostly came from the middle of the field. I actually fell asleep in the 2nd half but i might go back and watch some of the first half to see what Duke’s defense was playing.

We did early, and it went well. As we fell behind, we went to the backs a lot and to the sidelines a lot. I don't think the sidelines are any more "safe" than throwing over the middle - if you short arm a ball to the flats, it's a Pick 6.

I switched over to watching soccer after the first couple drives of the 2nd half.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Truth be told - there's too much broken with this young man. ...

Can coaching fix it? Unlikely.

It was his FIRST START. Geez, go take a walk and get some air.

 

[IthacaMatt]

3 points is a bad game, there is no way to sugarcoat it. You can't play at this level and have a QB score 3 points in 60 minutes.
You give him the first 20 minutes next week and if he turns it around fine.
If he doesn’t you make a change otherwise you might lose the entire team.

Yep. 3 points will never get it done.

They aren't going to replace him in the early part of the 2nd quarter, and if you meant 30 minutes / first half, I think that unless we are down 4 scores, he'll stay in there.

We don't have great options on the bench. They have to see if they can make it work. They won't give up as fast as the fans want them to.

 

[Lukeyloo]

Not sure why so much of the conversation is about the defense. Duke’s offense is good, they were going to put up points.

The problem here is the inability for Rickie to produce winning plays. This is was an offense whose lowest point total in was game was 26 pts under Angeli. Rickie couldn’t lead the team to a single touchdown against a mediocre to bad Duke defense.

The completions that Rickie threw, even the easy ones, were often off target and off time. He does not process quickly and doesn’t see the field well. He throws a lot of balls that are going to get guys crushed. We have to make some major changes in the offense if we’re going to stick with Rickie.

 

[Lukeyloo]

Yep. 3 points will never get it done.

They aren't going to replace him in the early part of the 2nd quarter, and if you meant 30 minutes / first half, I think that unless we are down 4 scores, he'll stay in there.

We don't have great options on the bench. They have to see if they can make it work. They won't give up as fast as the fans want them to.

Rex fricken Culpepper would’ve put up more points today.

 

[Cuse On 3]

Well, Antoine is an absolute beast

 

[Surfan06001]

Just put Angeli in a walking boot and let him ride

 

[sufan59]

Not sure why so much of the conversation is about the defense. Duke’s offense is good, they were going to put up points.

The problem here is the inability for Rickie to produce winning plays. This is was an offense whose lowest point total in was game was 26 pts under Angeli. Rickie couldn’t lead the team to a single touchdown against a mediocre to bad Duke defense.

Even the completions that Rickie threw, even the easy ones, were often off target and off time. He does not process quickly and doesn’t see the field well. He throws a lot of balls that are going to get guys crushed. We have to make some major changes in the offense if we’re going to stick with Rickie.

I like this take, yeah we would love to have a lockdown defense. But we should’ve known that we are a streaky defense and Duke was going to get their fix. The issue is we usually get our fix even on an off day, we got none of it today.

 

[baggerbob]

Yep. 3 points will never get it done.

They aren't going to replace him in the early part of the 2nd quarter, and if you meant 30 minutes / first half, I think that unless we are down 4 scores, he'll stay in there.

We don't have great options on the bench. They have to see if they can make it work. They won't give up as fast as the fans want them to.

You really don't know that until they actually play. We know Rickie hasn't shown the ability to make plays, and unless something good happens early next week, it will get worse before it gets better.

 

[sufan59]

You really don't know that until they actually play. We know Rickie hasn't shown the ability to make plays, and unless something good happens early next week, it will get worse before it gets better.

As coach said though we scored 3 points today it can’t get much worse.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not sure why so much of the conversation is about the defense. Duke’s offense is good, they were going to put up points.

The problem here is the inability for Rickie to produce winning plays. This is was an offense whose lowest point total in was game was 26 pts under Angeli. Rickie couldn’t lead the team to a single touchdown against a mediocre to bad Duke defense.

Even the completions that Rickie threw, even the easy ones, were often off target and off time. He does not process quickly and doesn’t see the field well. He throws a lot of balls that are going to get guys crushed. We have to make some major changes in the offense if we’re going to stick with Rickie.

He is going to start next week, whether you like it or not,

It's a 5 month season, and you have to develop players, not just replace them.

And you don't throw them away after 1 game. There is a locker room of young men who make up this team. That's not what these coaches stand for.

None of these guys are disposable - to the coaches, or to each other. These guys, most of them, are friends. You pull for each other. You are all trying to get better.

 

[baggerbob]

As coach said though we scored 3 points today it can’t get much worse.

The only way it could be worse is if we got a safety for 2 pts or a shutout of 0.

 

[tbonezone]

As coach said though we scored 3 points today it can’t get much worse.

okay it gets worse. my neighbor is a duke grad.

 

[Chip]

Embarrassing performance. Coming off a huge win, big home crowd and just completely laid an egg.

They either fix this starting next week or we’re about to see another iteration of 3-9 because QB1 got hurt.

 

[PAcuse]

I’m not sure I agree. Fran inherited a 6-6 team with some talent. Several of those guys are on NFL rosters now. Yes, he has dramatically upgraded the overall depth of the program and improved our athleticism in some units. But this was not a total rebuild.

And honestly that’s not really how college football works anymore. Not that one should expect instant greatness, but it’s not the world of 5 year rebuilds either.

Regardless that’s not why we lost today. We lost because we have a VERY QB dependent offense and the QB today was dreadful. Plus our D is rarely stout enough to win a game on their own, and today they outright collapsed.

It alright, it happens. There will be better days. I just done think today has much to do with rebuilding.

Yeah, but saying Fran didn’t inherit a rebuild because some guys went to the NFL is like saying you don’t need a new kitchen because you own a good knife. A couple of nice pieces don’t mean the whole thing was ready to cook.

I get your point about QB play but long-term, the rebuild matters. Fix the foundation and the bad Saturdays hurt less.

Sure, you can go out and spend a ton of money on players and look ‘good’ overnight. But the foundation of Syracuse football is broken. Fran has to rebuild that, not just the roster.

I never said we lost tonight because of the rebuild. All I’m saying is losses like this will happen. We’re trending in the right direction with Fran.

 

[Scooch]

Yeah, but saying Fran didn’t inherit a rebuild because some guys went to the NFL is like saying you don’t need a new kitchen because you own a good knife. A couple of nice pieces don’t mean the whole thing was ready to cook.

I get your point about QB play but long-term, the rebuild matters. Fix the foundation and the bad Saturdays hurt less.

Sure, you can go out and spend a ton of money on players and look ‘good’ overnight. But the foundation of Syracuse football is broken. Fran has to rebuild that, not just the roster.

I never said we lost tonight because of the rebuild. All I’m saying is losses like this will happen. We’re trending in the right direction with Fran.

I just can’t agree with your analogy. Last year LeQuint Allen was a Dino guy. Trebor Pena was a Dino guy. Oronde Gadsden, Darrell Gill, Dan Villari, Justin Baron, Marlowe Wax, Alijah Clark, Jayden Bellamy, Derek McDonald, Jack Stonehouse… all Dino recruits. That’s not just one good knife in a dilapidated kitchen.

Now, Fran’s hiring kept most of them at SU when I suspect most would have bolted had Dino been retained. And of course he brought in McCord who was by farrrrr the biggest reason we won 10 games last year.

I’m not criticizing Fran at all. He nailed it. But the cupboard was not bare. He had a lot to work with, and added some great guys to take that over the top.

This wasn’t Marrone taking over for Robinson.

 

[atlanticuse]

It was his FIRST START. Geez, go take a walk and get some air.

see you in a couple weeks.
(he played last week and wasn't great either)

 

[sufandu]

I get what you're saying - even Greg Paulus completed 2/3 of his passes and we stunk.
But this kid was rattled, had a handful of truly awful plays. And still wound up with 24 completions for about 8 yards per catch. Not terrible; that's workable.

He threw for about 150 yards in the 2nd half. He had several nice passes to Ross, and 2 or 3 good ones to JRS. He hit the TEs for a couple nice pickups. He wasn't as awful as 5 interceptions. Bad game, but he did make plays.

Two questions:

1. Don't you really need it to be more like at least 8 yards per attempt to be considered good?

2. How many of the second half yards were due to Duke playing soft so that they could just keep the clock going and not give up something stupid deep? I'm not trying to be contrary. I actually didn't watch the second half. If the offense was that much better, shouldn't we have scored?