Dungey as the #2

[RF2044]

Lets reserve Dungey for 2019 because he might be really good? Crazy. You will still have 3 years of really qb play if he is with 3 years to find a replacement. Crazy

Actually, its not crazy at all. What is the likelihood that this kid is ready to play at a high level as a true frosh? Expecting him to be ready is what's crazy.

There are a lot of people jumping to serious conclusions based upon some ambiguous statements from the coaches.

Let's see what Hunt can do in the new offense before penciling someone else in as his replacement. And I'm not huge on Hunt's upside. I AM on Dungey's, but hate to see a year squandered. Somebody mentioned Drew Allen above--know how we got into that situation? Because we lacked depth and talent at QB after Nassib, and had to resort trying to catch lightning in a bottle to overcome that deficiency. And now people want to squander a year of a potential stud QBs career? That's what's really crazy.

If this kid is better than Hunt, and ready to play unlike the vast majority of incoming true frosh QBs, then by all means play him and start him. But I think a far more likely outcome is that Hunt will prove to be adequate in the new system, Dungey--if he gets any playing time beyond a few token snaps--will see those snaps in the first 2 or 3 games of the season, and that's about it, and that Dungey will prove to not be ready for prime time, like most true frosh QBs.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Lets reserve Dungey for 2019 because he might be really good? Crazy. You will still have 3 years of really qb play if he is with 3 years to find a replacement. Crazy

It's not just that. It's also preserve Dungey's redshirt season this year because most true freshman QBs simply aren't ready.

Look everybody, the odds are not in Dungey's favor that he will make an impact as a true freshman quarterback on a team with other talent questions. They just aren't. You want to say he bucks the odds, that's fine, I'm saying I'd rather leave the door open for a longer future because odds are he's not as ready now despite all of our excitement. I just am not convinced he'll play enough to really help improve. If he does play enough, fine, I'm on board.

We lost Washington, ie the future. That went public. Now we're hearing all this stuff about Dungey. I'm not saying one encouraged the other, but if I put my tinfoil hat on just right, there sure has been a convenient change in conversation about the program all of a sudden.

 

[Millhouse]

Actually, its not crazy at all. What is the likelihood that this kid is ready to play at a high level as a true frosh? Expecting him to be ready is what's crazy.

There are a lot of people jumping to serious conclusions based upon some ambiguous statements from the coaches.

Let's see what Hunt can do in the new offense before penciling someone else in as his replacement. And I'm not huge on Hunt's upside. I AM on Dungey's, but hate to see a year squandered. Somebody mentioned Drew Allen above--know how we got into that situation? Because we lacked depth and talent at QB after Nassib. Squandering a year of a potential stud QBs career is what's crazy.

If this kid is better than Hunt, and ready to play unlike the vast majority of incoming true frosh QBs, then by all means play him and start him. But I think a far more likely outcome is that Hunt will prove to be adequate in the new system, Dungey--if he gets any playing time beyond a few token snaps--will see those snaps in the first 2 or 3 games of the season, and that's about it, and that Dungey will prove to not be ready for prime time, like most true frosh QBs.

I don't expect him to be ready his first year. I think we are going to stink. So rip off the bandaid.

I said it before but if you don't want to play dungey because you think hunt can be better in the new offense, ok

i'll give up 2019 dungey to get 2016 dungey prepared even if 2015 dungey is bad

 

[Millhouse]

It's not just that. It's also preserve Dungey's redshirt season this year because most true freshman QBs simply aren't ready.

Look everybody, the odds are not in Dungey's favor that he will make an impact as a true freshman quarterback on a team with other talent questions. They just aren't. You want to say he bucks the odds, that's fine, I'm saying I'd rather leave the door open for a longer future because odds are he's not as ready now despite all of our excitement. I just am not convinced he'll play enough to really help improve. If he does play enough, fine, I'm on board.

We lost Washington, ie the future. That went public. Now we're hearing all this stuff about Dungey. I'm not saying one encouraged the other, but if I put my tinfoil hat on just right, there sure has been a convenient change in conversation about the program all of a sudden.

no one who wants to play dungey this year is sure he's ready. hunt's not ready. hardly anyone is ready.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let's see what Hunt can do in the new offense before penciling someone else in as his replacement.

Remember, this is supposedly an offense Lester built to play to our players' strengths.

Now I'm expected to buy that Dungey is better suited to it? How could Lester have possibly known that?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

no one who wants to play dungey this year is sure he's ready. hunt's not ready. hardly anyone is ready.

That's a fair take, actually.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It's not just that. It's also preserve Dungey's redshirt season this year because most true freshman QBs simply aren't ready.

Look everybody, the odds are not in Dungey's favor that he will make an impact as a true freshman quarterback on a team with other talent questions. They just aren't. You want to say he bucks the odds, that's fine, I'm saying I'd rather leave the door open for a longer future because odds are he's not as ready now despite all of our excitement. I just am not convinced he'll play enough to really help improve. If he does play enough, fine, I'm on board.

We lost Washington, ie the future. That went public. Now we're hearing all this stuff about Dungey. I'm not saying one encouraged the other, but if I put my tinfoil hat on just right, there sure has been a convenient change in conversation about the program all of a sudden.

I don't believe that a few token snaps is the right thing to do but if he can get him valuable playing time this year and he proves to be the best option for the next 3 years then by all means get on with it. In my opinion, best way to get better is to play in games, plain and simple. I don't care about 2019 in 2015, I just don't.

 

[SUFan44]

Just to give everyone an idea of what other schools do at the QB position.

Tennessee signed 2015 ESPN Top 300 QBs Sheriron Jones, who had offers from FL, AZ, AZ St., and Jauan Jennings (Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, Penn State, + everyone) and another QB Quinten Dormady who had offers from TCU, Oklahoma State & Houston.

They already moved Jennings to WR (sound familiar? [Womack]), and Dormady is the primary backup. Will be interesting to see if either one of them play - my guess is they won't redshirt both.

Here's an article - doesn't sound like Tennessee coaches are worried about 5 years down the line:
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...dormady-ready-whenever-vols-backquart/321331/
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...dormady-ready-whenever-vols-backquart/321331/

But in the future, the received a commitment from 2016 QB Jarrett Guarantano, who incidentally was the top guy on our board for next year. And just received a verbal from the top 2017 QB in the country, Hunter Johnson.

Silly to redshirt to save a kid for 5 years down the line. A lot can happen between now and then.

Pasqualoni was in the same situation and gambled that in 1995 the team around a freshman QB would be good enough to win some games early in the year - it paid off. It may not pay off that well if the same thing happened this time.

A lot of people are forgetting that McNabb wasn't that great at the beginning of 1995 - he made mistakes and the defense carried the team (held UNC to 9 pts., had key INT that set up go-ahead score) and a sound running game with Malcolm Thomas, Rob Konrad & Tebucky Jones. Also lost at home to what ended up being a pretty good East Carolina team. Fumbled late on a center exchange, threw a pick at end of 1st half that changed complexion. He showed signs of being all world, don't think that I forget that, but he also had some growing pains early and had a much more veteran group that had won in prior years to help make the transition more smooth.

Also, McNabb made the choice to come back for his 5th year. He could have easily left for the NFL a year earlier. Would he have been a top 5 pick? Who knows. But the conversation was certainly out there. As I said and many others have said, 4 years is a long, long time.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Remember, this is supposedly an offense Lester built to play to our players' strengths.

Now I'm expected to buy that Dungey is better suited to it? How could Lester have possibly known that?

Oh stop, that is ridiculous. Lester recruited the kid. If you buy into coach speak than I would agree with you. Lester did not recruit Hunt.

I am not saying that Dungey is ready but best way to get him ready for 2016 is to play him in 2015, meaningful playing time

 

[GoSU96]

I don't believe that a few token snaps is the right thing to do but if he can get him valuable playing time this year and he proves to be the best option for the next 3 years then by all means get on with it. In my opinion, best way to get better is to play in games, plain and simple. I don't care about 2019 in 2015, I just don't.

If Shafer isn't in facing "win now" this year, he sure as hell will be next.

He's going to be in career preservation mode and one of the best ways to do that is have your QB of the future with some experience going into next season.

You know who doesn't care about 2019 one bit, Scott Shafer.

If he's worried about that, he isn't getting past next year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't believe that a few token snaps is the right thing to do but if he can get him valuable playing time this year and he proves to be the best option for the next 3 years then by all means get on with it. In my opinion, best way to get better is to play in games, plain and simple. I don't care about 2019 in 2015, I just don't.

We're not in disagreement. If he plays, I want to see him play a lot more than you get out of a customary backup. I'm not calling for a platoon or anything, but he should get meaningful time.

 

[Millhouse]

I took a look at all the drafted QB's in the past 2 NFL drafts to see what other coaches did:

2015:
Winston- RS - Started as a RSFrosh (left early)
Mariota- RS- Started as a RSFrosh (left early)
Garrett Grayson- Played in 4 games as a true frosh starting 3
Sean Mannion- RS- Started as a RSFrosh
Bryce Petty- RS- Started as a RSSoph
Brett Hundley- RS- Started as a RSFrosh (left early)
Trevor Siemian- RS- Started as a RSSoph

2014:
Bortles- RS- Started as RSSoph (left early)
Maziel- RS- Started as RSFrosh (left early) *Won Heisman as a RSFrosh
Bridgewater- Started 8 games as a true frosh
Derek Carr- RS- Started as a RSSoph
Jimmy Garoppolo- Started 8 games as a true frosh
Logan Thomas- RS- Started as RSSoph
Tom Savage- Started 12 games as a true frosh
Aaron Murray- RS- Started as a RSFrosh
AJ McCarron- RS- Started as a RSSoph
Mettenberger- JUCO- Started in 2nd season at LSU
David Fales- RS- Transferred to SJS and started as a RSSoph
Keith Wenning- Started 10 games as a true frosh
Tajh Boyd- RS- Started as a RSSoph
Garrett Gilbert- mop up duty behind Colt McCoy- played all of BCS National Championship game after McCoy was injured on 5th play. Started as a True Soph.

History says redshirt Dungey or start the kid. Lots of these guys RS and then started as RS Frosh so I don't see why everyone thinks he needs token snaps at the end of a few games.

That being said... if they do use him in mop up duty, and the wheels fall off and we lose our 7th game making us ineligible for a bowl. Dungey should start every game from then on.

good qbs usually go to good schools. good schools already have good qbs. so it doesn't surprise me that more NFL qbs sat a year.

we're bad, dungey may be good. no reason to redshirt him just because some other school had tennehill or nick florence or ej manuel

we need a good qb asap. hopefully dungey lets us redshirt a different nfl qb

 

[K Otto XLIV]

If the staff is that high on Dungey then they should plan to use him every week.

RI play him one series in the first half. Once we get up by 19 play him the rest of the game.
Wake one series 1st half. If we get up 19 in the 2nd half play him the rest of the game.
CMU see Wake.
LSU one series first half. If we get down by 19 in the 2nd half play him the rest of the game.
USF, UVA, Pitt see Wake.
FSU, UL, Clemson see LSU.
NC St & BC see Wake.

If we get to 7 losses he should play the entire 2nd half of games.

If Dungey isn't any good then stop playing him earlier in the season. In which case who cares about the redshirt. If he is good then he is prepared to take over next year.

 

[TheCusian]

Remember, this is supposedly an offense Lester built to play to our players' strengths.

Now I'm expected to buy that Dungey is better suited to it? How could Lester have possibly known that?

He personally recruited Dungey?

 

[Cusefan78]

According to most posters here shafer needs to win now and next year. He doesn't care about 2019 let alone 2017. If he's the future and they think they can win with him then get the kid experience. Who is to say their plan isn't to give hunt the start but the minute he's does his usual hunt crap and miss open receivers they put in dungy this year. This staff is under fire and needs to win. If they think dungy can give them wins then they know best and whatever they think ill support.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

According to most posters here shafer needs to win now and next year. He doesn't care about 2019 let alone 2017. If he's the future and they think they can win with him then get the kid experience. Who is to say their plan isn't to give hunt the start but the minute he's does his usual hunt crap and miss open receivers they put in dungy this year. This staff is under fire and needs to win. If they think dungy can give them wins then they know best and whatever they think ill support.

If that is the plan then they should have never made Hunt captain.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He personally recruited Dungey?

OK, so I'm being asked to buy that Lester is such a magical wizard that he was able to design an offense for 2015 that played to Hunt's strengths, while identifying a hidden gem QB very late in the recruiting cycle that is actually a better fit for that same offense?

Look, I'm a Syracuse fan. I can believe a lot of crazy things. This is really stretching it. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it isn't likely.

 

[OttoMets]

Perhaps there's some thought as well that Dungey might be better than Hunt as well...

This is what I've heard.

 

[orangeinohio]

He personally recruited Dungey?

I think in the Dungey thread it said that Lester was the primary recruiter.
I also think I read that Dungey had an Air Force offer so Moreland might have provided the in.

 

[orangeinohio]

OK, so I'm being asked to buy that Lester is such a magical wizard that he was able to design an offense for 2015 that played to Hunt's strengths, while identifying a hidden gem QB very late in the recruiting cycle that is actually a better fit for that same offense?

Look, I'm a Syracuse fan. I can believe a lot of crazy things. This is really stretching it. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it isn't likely.

Totally agree.
Two different types of QBs who both are both fits?

 

[Shenexon]

OK, so I'm being asked to buy that Lester is such a magical wizard that he was able to design an offense for 2015 that played to Hunt's strengths, while identifying a hidden gem QB very late in the recruiting cycle that is actually a better fit for that same offense?

Look, I'm a Syracuse fan. I can believe a lot of crazy things. This is really stretching it. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it isn't likely.

If it works, it could be the sign of a successful offensive system. Having good play from 2 different quarterbacks would be a great problem to have...

 

[Tobias Funke]

Here's my thing: I don't want to see him come in for one series in the fourth quarter and hand off three straight times in mop up duty. There's no benefit to that. If we're up 35-3 on Friday heading into the 4th quarter? I'm fine with giving him the entire 4th quarter. That's legitimate PT. If he gets legitimate playing opportunities this year, I'm fine with burning his redshirt. But don't put him in the game just for the sake of putting him in the game and have him hand it off a few times before yanking him back out.

Reality is that this year i believe that whoever was placed in the second string was going to get meaningful minutes for good reasons early on, and for likely bad reasons near the end of the year. If he goes into 3 games to just hand the ball off i will gladly eat crow, i just dont see that happening.

 

[TheCusian]

OK, so I'm being asked to buy that Lester is such a magical wizard that he was able to design an offense for 2015 that played to Hunt's strengths, while identifying a hidden gem QB very late in the recruiting cycle that is actually a better fit for that same offense?

Look, I'm a Syracuse fan. I can believe a lot of crazy things. This is really stretching it. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it isn't likely.

Ha!

The offense he has installed is not built to Hunt's strengths. He built it at Elmhurst. I think from everything coming out of camp we might surmise that Lester's offense fits Hunt better than Mcit's did. But that doesn't mean that the 2015 offense was designed specifically for Hunt. I don't think it's a jump to say he once he became OC, he then turned his recruiting energy to recruiting a guy that fits his system. He'd be stupid not to.

 

[TheCusian]

Totally agree.
Two different types of QBs who both are both fits?

I don't think they are that different. I think Dungey is as much an athlete as Hunt, has comparable size (though lighter - he is a freshman), has better accuracy, and has learned the offense at a faster rate than anyone since Nassib.

Look at it like this: What would Hunt look like if he got the head part and accuracy to match his size and athleticism?

 

[orangeinohio]

I don't think they are that different. I think Dungey is as much an athlete as Hunt, has comparable size (though lighter - he is a freshman), has better accuracy, and has learned the offense at a faster rate than anyone since Nassib.

Look at it like this: What would Hunt look like if he got the head part and accuracy to match his size and athleticism?

Isn't it accurate to say that Dungey is a pocket passer and Hunt is a mobile, dual threat?

[EDIT: Actually, we haven't seen Dungey on the field yet but I thought this was his profile.]