Edinger

[qdawgg]

Some people want these kids to add 40 lbs of muscle (LOL), get faster and still be fresh at the end of the season.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I don’t think Edinger is an issue. To me, its our rest/recovery (along with roster/load management). That includes facilities such as Cryotherapy, infrared Sauna, Float Tanks, Normatec etc… take a look at Clemson’s facility for recovery. It’s a whole center dedicated to this.

Now I’ve had conversations with SU about implementing a facility like this. They are scared to death of Cryotherapy and the liability that comes with it. Which I find ridiculous.

In short, we need a Football Performance Recovery Center with the tools I listed above. This also includes a “Director of Football Athletic Recovery” or something along those lines. Sports Recovery is just as important as Strength and Conditioning in todays game.

I think the lack of recovery treatment options is the biggest contributing factor.

I got the sense from some folks who used to be involved with the program we were (are?) more like Rachel Phelps Cleveland Indians.

 

[kcsu]

Im sure the wolverine knows what hes doing.
The post on the recovery equipment is spot on. I also think that we should be placing a big emphasis on our practice habits, player rotation, special team use of key players and equipment. Knee braces, bands ect

 

[RandomGuy]

Some people want these kids to add 40 lbs of muscle (LOL), get faster and still be fresh at the end of the season.

LOL!! A complete newb CAN gain a lot of muscle. The guys that have been lifting for years? Arogon NATURAL lean muscle mass model says an experienced lifter can gain .25% to .50% of muscle a month. A 200lber, can 1/2 lbs to 1 lbs muscle a month. Now take out 4 or 5 months for the season. 4lbs to 8lbs MAX for 8 months. Only 10 years to add that 40lbs for guys that genetically gain less mass.

 

[qdawgg]

LOL!! A complete newb CAN gain a lot of muscle. The guys that have been lifting for years? Arogon NATURAL lean muscle mass model says an experienced lifter can gain .25% to .50% of muscle a month. A 200lber, can 1/2 lbs to 1 lbs muscle a month. Now take out 4 or 5 months for the season. 4lbs to 8lbs MAX for 8 months. Only 10 years to add that 40lbs for guys that genetically gain less mass.

Yeah, some people just have no clue and comment like they do.

 

[Cuse4455]

Some people want these kids to add 40 lbs of muscle (LOL), get faster and still be fresh at the end of the season.

25lbs for our DL is very doable

 

[qdawgg]

25lbs for our DL is very doable

You know best…..

 

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, some people just have no clue and comment like they do.

Yeah. SnC can't do miracles. Can a kid that's never lifted add 20lbs of muscle? Yes. The problem is, that he probably wouldn't be a D1 football player, because he would have had his clock CLEANED through all of HS.

For our HS players? They start lifting in 8th grade- year round - for 5 years. But only if they want a chance to play.

 

[qdawgg]

Yeah. SnC can't do miracles. Can a kid that's never lifted add 20lbs of muscle? Yes. The problem is, that he probably wouldn't be a D1 football player, because he would have had his clock CLEANED through all of HS.

For our HS players? They start lifting in 8th grade- year round - for 5 years. But only if they want a chance to play.

Yeah what people don’t understand when you’re at that level. It’s not about adding more muscle per say. It’s about getting that muscle to do more than it could before. Build up more muscle endurance, lactate threshold levels, etc - depending on the athlete and what position they play.

 

[rrlbees]

I still can’t get over this photo. Where isn’t there a muscle?

 

[RandomGuy]

i

Yeah what people don’t understand when you’re at that level. It’s not about adding more muscle per say. It’s about getting that muscle to do more than it could before. Build up more muscle endurance, lactate threshold levels, etc - depending on the athlete and what position they play.

Right. I have no doubt that cuse4455 felt he added 20 lbs of muscle. I'm also guessing 1st year. (Where massive gains CAN occur - and right on, for your success. It changes.)

Look at bees pic of Tucker. Coach E certainly helped sculpt that, but if you don't think Mr. Sean Tucker worked his ARSE off for that? For YEARS, before he ever came to Cuse? I'm sorry. Thats not a 3 or 4 year effort. That started when he was 13. Its why he's here- just like the others.

I AM biased towards coach E. I know what he does. As a nearly 50 year old man, he can do things with his body that nary a single 17 year old kid can. Beyond impressive. I've watched him blowing 17 year old kids minds.

Old school is slow twitch. He adds fast twitch. His black belt experience has him applying that power in 3 dimensions, for maximum force. . He's unlocking hips - (if you have a HS player? You should have started here- when they were 13) He's a GOOD SnC coach. Players respect him. Again. I'm biased. I'm not scapegoating him.

Turf is a prob for injuries...

Having less 4 and 5 stars? Your prolly gonna work your 1's more to develop them. Doesn't help your 2's. Dunno the answer here. What is too much?

I've been down to the facility a handful of times. I dunno if it was an off day- so I'm not passing judgement. I watched some players eating tortilla chips(repeatedly) with refried beans? It looked pretty gross. I wouldnt serve that. It didnt seem kitchen staff was there, so be it. It looked crap enough, that I asked why they were eating it? (I'm a VERY picky eater - i'll GLADLY spend 8 hours on a meal if its good.) They told me it was better than anything else... ;-(


I can ASSURE you. I can feed a 300lbs lineman a healthy meal. A 4lbs HEALTHY chicken ceasar salad? They freakin' love it- if you buy good ingredients. I've feed many Cuse lineman fresh, healthy seafood, right off the boat- from fresh caught Atlantic boat, driven directy to Cuse. About $120 a pan. (Not asking Cuse to do this. It's prohibitively expensive. I live 600 feet from salt water, and routinely caught 80lbs plus of fresh seafood a year- Cuse seafood is Gross by comparison - sorry. ) I just dont know why they don't offer fresh turkey wrap's (or whatever) and leave those tortilla chips and refried beans as a "best" choice... yuck.

Good nutrition is expensive. (My guess as to why we lack) When my big arse kid comes home? My grocery bill goes up $300 a week. And that's for the cheap stuff. Thsts ONE kid.

If you want your kids fueled by healty fish, nuts, and other protiens? You should probably get it for them.

 

[Cusefan69]

I hope everyone knows that I am not a fire everyone person, I am actually fine if we keep Babers, maybe a bit resigned to it. However, I can tell you that someone I trust a lot and who is level headed about things told me from firsthand knowledge that a LOT of players parents are not happy and are very concerned with S&C/nutrition and all the injuries in this program. Whether the kids of these parents agree I don’t know but it is a concern and I know Wildhack has been hearing about it. This is a problem, and it needs to be addressed

So two thoughts. First it is good that ADJW is hearing it. Sometimes you prioritize dollars certain places but if there are loud and persistent enough voices priorities can be adjusted. Second ADJW has shown seemingly significant willingness to address priorities. There's been multiple examples. So perhaps some new items of focus this offseason.

 

[RandomGuy]

So two thoughts. First it is good that ADJW is hearing it. Sometimes you prioritize dollars certain places but if there are loud and persistent enough voices priorities can be adjusted. Second ADJW has shown seemingly significant willingness to address priorities. There's been multiple examples. So perhaps some new items of focus this offseason.

If you primarily offer just breakfast? Maybe add lunch? Maybe add dinner, and skip the chik filet and Tullys? What are you saying?

Eggs are cheap. For the kids that can't eat breakfast(providing the university allows them to eat on the bus to class?) Why not pack grab n go bags based on each kids nutritional goals? (Like every FCS school) A group grabs A bags, B group B bags, C group C bags; etc... If a kid can't get to lunch? Throw in a lunch A,B,C, or D lunch bag. And for the love of God, please mix it up so the kid would rather not eat his shoe, or starve. Control their nutrition, instead of pretending they will(while they pay for it.) What we've been doing.

Wanna give 'em a chik filet cheat nght? (They like chik filet) Make em earn it.

An old, sexist saying, is the way to a man's heart is through his stomache. Its not without merit. Now try doing that with healthy food. Its gonna COST you. (I know this intimately) You gotta work your arse off to present that in a way that a kid will down 5,000 calories.. (or whatever their needs are) Half arsing doesnt work.

Bees? Can you please confirm my dining frustrations in Cuse? I prolly sent you 50 pics of the food I serve at home... that was the decadent stuff, and I struggled to find any decent food in Cuse(from my home perspective) I've got a hundred more pics of the healthy stuff... Food is IMPORTANT.

If they want the players to have healthy nutrition, they need to step up their game. Rob is great behind the grill, for breakfast in an attempt to serve em something different for breakfast, but only so much he can do.

Sincerely hope the new(finally) nutritionist adds some decent food. It's going to COST the university to feed it's players. I would MUCH prefer he eats his meals, EVERY night, so he can address the application of his menu. Hint. He's gonna get bored real quick$$$, and the players that eat twice as much as him; have LONG been OUT. Best of luck to him.

There is a silly line in a greenday song, about when masturbation has lost its fun... I'm not going to address that. But if you think that good food isn't supremely important? You're !(king CRAZY.

 

[FloridaFan]

i

Right. I have no doubt that cuse4455 felt he added 20 lbs of muscle. I'm also guessing 1st year. (Where massive gains CAN occur - and right on, for your success. It changes.)

Look at bees pic of Tucker. Coach E certainly helped sculpt that, but if you don't think Mr. Sean Tucker worked his ARSE off for that? For YEARS, before he ever came to Cuse? I'm sorry. Thats not a 3 or 4 year effort. That started when he was 13. Its why he's here- just like the others.

I AM biased towards coach E. I know what he does. As a nearly 50 year old man, he can do things with his body that nary a single 17 year old kid can. Beyond impressive. I've watched him blowing 17 year old kids minds.

Old school is slow twitch. He adds fast twitch. His black belt experience has him applying that power in 3 dimensions, for maximum force. . He's unlocking hips - (if you have a HS player? You should have started here- when they were 13) He's a GOOD SnC coach. Players respect him. Again. I'm biased. I'm not scapegoating him.

Turf is a prob for injuries...

Having less 4 and 5 stars? Your prolly gonna work your 1's more to develop them. Doesn't help your 2's. Dunno the answer here. What is too much?

I've been down to the facility a handful of times. I dunno if it was an off day- so I'm not passing judgement. I watched some players eating tortilla chips(repeatedly) with refried beans? It looked pretty gross. I wouldnt serve that. It didnt seem kitchen staff was there, so be it. It looked crap enough, that I asked why they were eating it? (I'm a VERY picky eater - i'll GLADLY spend 8 hours on a meal if its good.) They told me it was better than anything else... ;-(


I can ASSURE you. I can feed a 300lbs lineman a healthy meal. A 4lbs HEALTHY chicken ceasar salad? They freakin' love it- if you buy good ingredients. I've feed many Cuse lineman fresh, healthy seafood, right off the boat- from fresh caught Atlantic boat, driven directy to Cuse. About $120 a pan. (Not asking Cuse to do this. It's prohibitively expensive. I live 600 feet from salt water, and routinely caught 80lbs plus of fresh seafood a year- Cuse seafood is Gross by comparison - sorry. ) I just dont know why they don't offer fresh turkey wrap's (or whatever) and leave those tortilla chips and refried beans as a "best" choice... yuck.

Good nutrition is expensive. (My guess as to why we lack) When my big arse kid comes home? My grocery bill goes up $300 a week. And that's for the cheap stuff. Thsts ONE kid.

If you want your kids fueled by healty fish, nuts, and other protiens? You should probably get it for them.

I call dibs on coming over for dinner at your place. Lol

 

[shu 49]

As I have talked about before, diet is 60 percent or more of the equation. U can’t build muscle without at least 1 gram protein per lb of body weight. All good food is expensive. If u put sht in u get sht out. It’s not rocket science. What is rocket science is the actual training part. Each kid is different in their weak spots. They should be tested and each person should be charted with their weaknesses and how to improve that. As an examole, in hs I had a kid with extremely tight hamstrings. I slowed down his leg curls and upped his hypers, plus added stretching for his hips and hams and after 3 months no more pulled hammys. The lifting is def the science. It should be as close to football stuff as possible. Do a heavy band squat for 2 reps and then within30 sec go do a 25 yd sprint. Ur fast twitch receptors are ready and willing to fire. Anyways, we gotta fix the nutrition period. Also s+c coaches may have to change stuff like no more sprinting on turf. Do all training on grass. Anything that may help.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

As I have talked about before, diet is 60 percent or more of the equation. U can’t build muscle without at least 1 gram protein per lb of body weight. All good food is expensive. If u put sht in u get sht out. It’s not rocket science. What is rocket science is the actual training part. Each kid is different in their weak spots. They should be tested and each person should be charted with their weaknesses and how to improve that. As an examole, in hs I had a kid with extremely tight hamstrings. I slowed down his leg curls and upped his hypers, plus added stretching for his hips and hams and after 3 months no more pulled hammys. The lifting is def the science. It should be as close to football stuff as possible. Do a heavy band squat for 2 reps and then within30 sec go do a 25 yd sprint. Ur fast twitch receptors are ready and willing to fire. Anyways, we gotta fix the nutrition period. Also s+c coaches may have to change stuff like no more sprinting on turf. Do all training on grass. Anything that may help.

I hope you and other knowledgeable posters send a message to Wildhack about these issues.

 

[RandomGuy]

I hope you and other knowledgeable posters send a message to Wildhack about these issues.

They do all that type of stuff. If they need more $$ for nutrition? Ok then.

 

[kcsu]

I still can’t get over this photo. Where isn’t there a muscle?

View attachment 222343

The earlobe looks like it could use a few more reps

 

[HRE Otto IV]

i

Right. I have no doubt that cuse4455 felt he added 20 lbs of muscle. I'm also guessing 1st year. (Where massive gains CAN occur - and right on, for your success. It changes.)

Look at bees pic of Tucker. Coach E certainly helped sculpt that, but if you don't think Mr. Sean Tucker worked his ARSE off for that? For YEARS, before he ever came to Cuse? I'm sorry. Thats not a 3 or 4 year effort. That started when he was 13. Its why he's here- just like the others.

I AM biased towards coach E. I know what he does. As a nearly 50 year old man, he can do things with his body that nary a single 17 year old kid can. Beyond impressive. I've watched him blowing 17 year old kids minds.

Old school is slow twitch. He adds fast twitch. His black belt experience has him applying that power in 3 dimensions, for maximum force. . He's unlocking hips - (if you have a HS player? You should have started here- when they were 13) He's a GOOD SnC coach. Players respect him. Again. I'm biased. I'm not scapegoating him.

Turf is a prob for injuries...

Having less 4 and 5 stars? Your prolly gonna work your 1's more to develop them. Doesn't help your 2's. Dunno the answer here. What is too much?

I've been down to the facility a handful of times. I dunno if it was an off day- so I'm not passing judgement. I watched some players eating tortilla chips(repeatedly) with refried beans? It looked pretty gross. I wouldnt serve that. It didnt seem kitchen staff was there, so be it. It looked crap enough, that I asked why they were eating it? (I'm a VERY picky eater - i'll GLADLY spend 8 hours on a meal if its good.) They told me it was better than anything else... ;-(


I can ASSURE you. I can feed a 300lbs lineman a healthy meal. A 4lbs HEALTHY chicken ceasar salad? They freakin' love it- if you buy good ingredients. I've feed many Cuse lineman fresh, healthy seafood, right off the boat- from fresh caught Atlantic boat, driven directy to Cuse. About $120 a pan. (Not asking Cuse to do this. It's prohibitively expensive. I live 600 feet from salt water, and routinely caught 80lbs plus of fresh seafood a year- Cuse seafood is Gross by comparison - sorry. ) I just dont know why they don't offer fresh turkey wrap's (or whatever) and leave those tortilla chips and refried beans as a "best" choice... yuck.

Good nutrition is expensive. (My guess as to why we lack) When my big arse kid comes home? My grocery bill goes up $300 a week. And that's for the cheap stuff. Thsts ONE kid.

If you want your kids fueled by healty fish, nuts, and other protiens? You should probably get it for them.

We need to speak in generalities otherwise we would have posts that make SWC's posts look brief. Even this will be long. Also "it depends" is going to be applied a lot. In reality nothing can be applied across the board.

Kids 18-22 are going to add natural bulk. Not necessarily muscle but size. Doesn't matter if you are an athlete or some kid playing video games all day. They are still kids and growing. And I would also say the kids are generally speaking, novice lifters. They are nowhere near their peak physically. A kid 18-22 can add muscle at a higher rate than a man 28-32. Yes, that 18-22 year old kid has likely been lifting for 3-6 years, but they are usually well short of their potential and will make gains at a much faster rate.

Plus how many kids will have had a dedicated S&C coach in HS? Maybe in Texas and Florida but most in the Northeast are more likely to have a meathead OL coach giving bodybuilding style workout which has no application to football. Or the kids will be running corners for conditioning which also has zero application.

On top of that how many kids just play football. Again more likely in Florida or Texas but less likely in the Northeast. You are going to have multi sport kids who play year round. So chances are they haven't been strength training anywhere near full capacity.

That being said the S&C coach has about 3 months to make gains. The kids shouldn't be trying to get stronger or add muscle from August through December. January through March is available but then in April you have Spring ball which will scale things back. May through July the kids are off campus, it is entirely on them.

So generally speaking a kid adding 5-6 lbs of muscle a year is pretty good. But like I said before they should also be adding natural bulk. And again it depends. Certain positions will be closer to that 5-6 lbs while others will be further away. Same with a Freshman vs a Senior.

As to nutrition, most kids do not eat enough calories. Ideally they would be eating clean and have no need for supplements. But in reality that rarely happens. So a kid not eating clean and hitting their caloric goals is something you have to put up with. Additionally having them use "fast food" protein and greens shakes is needed. If you want an 18-22 year old to make gains, in most cases they are going to need to eat dirty to get there.

Generally speaking the S&C coach should be trying to make the kids bigger, stronger, and faster. But that too depends on one's position. The closer you are pre snap to the ball, the more important being bigger is, and less important being fast is. The further away from the ball the more important being fast is, and the less important being bigger is. And even on top of that a WR should be training slightly different than a CB. The positions have different physical needs.

You need both fast and slow twitch in football. If you are only training fast twitch you will be more likely to get hurt on the field. Bruce Lee was a physical freak. But that does not apply to football. If you have a team of 100 Bruce Lees you will never win a game. Just being explosive isn't enough. Some sports, sure. But football has physical impacts over and over again.

The game of football has changed. Exercise science has changed. So the old school way is very dated. But at the same time going to the other extreme is just as bad. Will Hicks trained for explosiveness. Back then it wasn't a priority, but let's not act like he was trying to build bodybuilders.

Exercise selection is also important. Power cleans are great but they probably shouldn't be used more than once every 2-3 weeks. The risk is not worth the added reward. They are other exercises that can be used. Overhead pressing should be used minimally. It is just not worth it. This all applies to other exercises as well.

Then we get to the issue of 18-22 year olds ego lifting. A S&C coach cannot micro manage all 100 players. Kids that age are a lot more likely to ego lift, especially a competitive athlete. So the risk of injury in the gym, which sometimes is not realized until you get on the field, will always be high. I would bet some of our injuries are gym related. But again that might not be of any fault of the S&C coach.

Our kids compared to other ACC teams are small. Some of that is recruiting smaller kids. If you are starting behind you will stay behind. But at the same time we have kids you look like they haven't gotten any bigger over the last 3-4 years. That should NOT happen.

SU used to be great at getting DBs bigger and making them LBs, and making and making LBs into DLmen. Other schools have had success making WRs in TEs, and TEs into Ts. It was part of what closed the recruiting gap.

I have no clue what Edinger is doing. What I do know is that we are small and get injured a lot (that being said being small leads to more injuries). These issues could have 0.0% to do with his programing. But we should review to make sure that is the case.

 

[dan7800]

I am not saying that any posters are wrong, but is there any evidence that shows SU consistently has more players hurt than our P5 peers? This would be challenging because there is no obvious, robust statistical set that one could use to measure things like this. At least none that I can think of. For example, Schrader is hurt but we can't quantify "how hurt".

Edit: What's in this thread could help, but I don't see it being the definitive answer.

How do we compare injury wise with other teams.

https://www.covers.com/sport/football/ncaaf/injuries

syracusefan.com

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I am not saying that any posters are wrong, but is there any evidence that shows SU consistently has more players hurt than our P5 peers? This would be challenging because there is no obvious, robust statistical set that one could use to measure things like this. At least none that I can think of. For example, Schrader is hurt but we can't quantify "how hurt".

Edit: What's in this thread could help, but I don't see it being the definitive answer.

How do we compare injury wise with other teams.

https://www.covers.com/sport/football/ncaaf/injuries

syracusefan.com

On the O side of the ball are we really any different? OL will have injuries because they are colliding over and over again. RBs/WRs can get hurt from contact. QBs get hurt all the time. Off the top of my head BC, Pitt, Miami, Louisville, NC State, Wake have had their QB miss some time due to injury.

On the D side of the ball I think it has to do with our size. Our DL is the size of LBs. Our LBs are the size of Ss. When you are going up against an OL significantly bigger and even RBs that are bigger than you, the chances of injury go up.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know how anyone is supposed to evaluate strength and conditioning coaches.

I'm not saying it's not important - people have a tendency to downplay the importance of things that aren't measurable like play calling

but how am I supposed to know what is genetically possible for these players or what their progress actually is?

For basketball, it's pretty clear that so many of those players put in very little effort in the weight room, there are minimum results that any old washed up person could get with decent diet and training, much less a kid in college who can devote his life to it

I do know that the whole S&C sideline hype man tough guy act that you see in a million programs now is pretty goofy.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don't know how anyone is supposed to evaluate strength and conditioning coaches.

I'm not saying it's not important - people have a tendency to downplay the importance of things that aren't measurable like play calling

but how am I supposed to know what is genetically possible for these players or what their progress actually is?

For basketball, it's pretty clear that so many of those players put in very little effort in the weight room, there are minimum results that any old washed up person could get with decent diet and training, much less a kid in college who can devote his life to it

I do know that the whole S&C sideline hype man tough guy act that you see in a million programs now is pretty goofy.

bring back HICKS!!

 

[Cusefan69]

If you primarily offer just breakfast? Maybe add lunch? Maybe add dinner, and skip the chik filet and Tullys? What are you saying?

Eggs are cheap. For the kids that can't eat breakfast(providing the university allows them to eat on the bus to class?) Why not pack grab n go bags based on each kids nutritional goals? (Like every FCS school) A group grabs A bags, B group B bags, C group C bags; etc... If a kid can't get to lunch? Throw in a lunch A,B,C, or D lunch bag. And for the love of God, please mix it up so the kid would rather not eat his shoe, or starve. Control their nutrition, instead of pretending they will(while they pay for it.) What we've been doing.

Wanna give 'em a chik filet cheat nght? (They like chik filet) Make em earn it.

An old, sexist saying, is the way to a man's heart is through his stomache. Its not without merit. Now try doing that with healthy food. Its gonna COST you. (I know this intimately) You gotta work your arse off to present that in a way that a kid will down 5,000 calories.. (or whatever their needs are) Half arsing doesnt work.

Bees? Can you please confirm my dining frustrations in Cuse? I prolly sent you 50 pics of the food I serve at home... that was the decadent stuff, and I struggled to find any decent food in Cuse(from my home perspective) I've got a hundred more pics of the healthy stuff... Food is IMPORTANT.

If they want the players to have healthy nutrition, they need to step up their game. Rob is great behind the grill, for breakfast in an attempt to serve em something different for breakfast, but only so much he can do.

Sincerely hope the new(finally) nutritionist adds some decent food. It's going to COST the university to feed it's players. I would MUCH prefer he eats his meals, EVERY night, so he can address the application of his menu. Hint. He's gonna get bored real quick$$$, and the players that eat twice as much as him; have LONG been OUT. Best of luck to him.

There is a silly line in a greenday song, about when masturbation has lost its fun... I'm not going to address that. But if you think that good food isn't supremely important? You're !(king CRAZY.

DJ indicated that there was allot of frustration from the parents around SnC and nutrition and the AD was hearing it. My point was we also know that the AD has found ways to commit more resources to the program in recent years so perhaps the uproar from the parents may help drive some change. Exactly what that change is I don’t know. Maybe a football only Nutritionist? Maybe better or more recovery facilities? Not sure. I would defer to those who know more on the subject and who could with knowledge frame perhaps the ”gaps” we have today on the SnC and nutrition side.

 

[RandomGuy]

We need to speak in generalities otherwise we would have posts that make SWC's posts look brief. Even this will be long. Also "it depends" is going to be applied a lot. In reality nothing can be applied across the board.

Kids 18-22 are going to add natural bulk. Not necessarily muscle but size. Doesn't matter if you are an athlete or some kid playing video games all day. They are still kids and growing. And I would also say the kids are generally speaking, novice lifters. They are nowhere near their peak physically. A kid 18-22 can add muscle at a higher rate than a man 28-32. Yes, that 18-22 year old kid has likely been lifting for 3-6 years, but they are usually well short of their potential and will make gains at a much faster rate.

Plus how many kids will have had a dedicated S&C coach in HS? Maybe in Texas and Florida but most in the Northeast are more likely to have a meathead OL coach giving bodybuilding style workout which has no application to football. Or the kids will be running corners for conditioning which also has zero application.

On top of that how many kids just play football. Again more likely in Florida or Texas but less likely in the Northeast. You are going to have multi sport kids who play year round. So chances are they haven't been strength training anywhere near full capacity.

That being said the S&C coach has about 3 months to make gains. The kids shouldn't be trying to get stronger or add muscle from August through December. January through March is available but then in April you have Spring ball which will scale things back. May through July the kids are off campus, it is entirely on them.

So generally speaking a kid adding 5-6 lbs of muscle a year is pretty good. But like I said before they should also be adding natural bulk. And again it depends. Certain positions will be closer to that 5-6 lbs while others will be further away. Same with a Freshman vs a Senior.

As to nutrition, most kids do not eat enough calories. Ideally they would be eating clean and have no need for supplements. But in reality that rarely happens. So a kid not eating clean and hitting their caloric goals is something you have to put up with. Additionally having them use "fast food" protein and greens shakes is needed. If you want an 18-22 year old to make gains, in most cases they are going to need to eat dirty to get there.

Generally speaking the S&C coach should be trying to make the kids bigger, stronger, and faster. But that too depends on one's position. The closer you are pre snap to the ball, the more important being bigger is, and less important being fast is. The further away from the ball the more important being fast is, and the less important being bigger is. And even on top of that a WR should be training slightly different than a CB. The positions have different physical needs.

You need both fast and slow twitch in football. If you are only training fast twitch you will be more likely to get hurt on the field. Bruce Lee was a physical freak. But that does not apply to football. If you have a team of 100 Bruce Lees you will never win a game. Just being explosive isn't enough. Some sports, sure. But football has physical impacts over and over again.

The game of football has changed. Exercise science has changed. So the old school way is very dated. But at the same time going to the other extreme is just as bad. Will Hicks trained for explosiveness. Back then it wasn't a priority, but let's not act like he was trying to build bodybuilders.

Exercise selection is also important. Power cleans are great but they probably shouldn't be used more than once every 2-3 weeks. The risk is not worth the added reward. They are other exercises that can be used. Overhead pressing should be used minimally. It is just not worth it. This all applies to other exercises as well.

Then we get to the issue of 18-22 year olds ego lifting. A S&C coach cannot micro manage all 100 players. Kids that age are a lot more likely to ego lift, especially a competitive athlete. So the risk of injury in the gym, which sometimes is not realized until you get on the field, will always be high. I would bet some of our injuries are gym related. But again that might not be of any fault of the S&C coach.

Our kids compared to other ACC teams are small. Some of that is recruiting smaller kids. If you are starting behind you will stay behind. But at the same time we have kids you look like they haven't gotten any bigger over the last 3-4 years. That should NOT happen.

SU used to be great at getting DBs bigger and making them LBs, and making and making LBs into DLmen. Other schools have had success making WRs in TEs, and TEs into Ts. It was part of what closed the recruiting gap.

I have no clue what Edinger is doing. What I do know is that we are small and get injured a lot (that being said being small leads to more injuries). These issues could have 0.0% to do with his programing. But we should review to make sure that is the case.

Yeah, its difficult to paint with a broad brush. I know how it works in our NE state. Our HS athletic director also chairs the state committee, and many of his policies have been adopted statewide.

We have a dedicated sports medicine contractor on staff- that is also certified at SnC..This is to keep meathead coaches from hurting the kids, and keep kids lifting safe.. Minor injury treatments can be also be done in school.

Multi sports athletes don't need Gym class. Instead? Schools offer weight training class, DURING school. As an alternative, so kids can lift year round- and no. You don't have to be an athlete. Its ok if you just want to get jacked- with supervision. I mean - its good to be fit.

Most of the larger schools have adopted those policy recommendations. I understand that those policies can be cost prohibitive for smaller schools- but thats how it works in my state.