Elmore and Benson | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Elmore and Benson

He is going to move up on the line and give offense a two tight look.

btw he caught two swing passes in practice on Friday
Putting the ball in Elmores hands is a wasted down. The only time you want to use him is when it is least expected. Goal line or short yardage let him leak through the line but other than that he is a lead blocker not a pass catching TE or a running back.
 
Putting the ball in Elmores hands is a wasted down. The only time you want to use him is when it is least expected. Goal line or short yardage let him leak through the line but other than that he is a lead blocker not a pass catching TE or a running back.
I didn’t say feature him as a runner, what he brings in the ability to change looks is huge

That being said how he was moving on Friday I’d say wasted down is too strong. He can make plays in spots
 
I've wondered why they don't use Elmore as a TE. He's proven immensely versatile and he clearly blocks. Maybe he can't catch a ball to save his life but one would think there could be some serious shenanigan's on the Oline with him there.

There was ONE game where they threw him 2 swing passes, and he dropped them both.

And then they never tried it again.

However - he was WIDE OPEN and woulda picked up some decent yardage, so clearly the concept is valid, assuming he can hang onto the ball.
(he made the classic mistake of turning to look where he was gonna run, before having 100% secured the catch - that’s coachable, for sure)

I remember Clay Cleveland was a blocking FB for us, who pretty much never, ever got the rock.
… except for the 6 passes he caught one year, 2 of which went for TD’s near the goal line.
They never saw it coming.
 
I didn’t say feature him as a runner, what he brings in the ability to change looks is huge

That being said how he was moving on Friday I’d say wasted down is too strong. He can make plays in spotsI
Understood agree on spots but his primary strength is as a lead blocker. If we can sneak him out once in awhile great. As to running the ball maybe if plays tailback and we bring in the hawaiian kid as a lead blocker but other than that let the backs handle the carries
 
How many valuable hb get switched to to OL

The value needs to be compared to the value of the WR now on the the sideline
What? You just answered your own question. He was moved to OL out of neccessity and because of his value as a blocker. The role of a HB is different from a wr. No one thinks a HB should be playing the whole game. You put them in certain packages and formations you feel you have an advantage in. Any good offense runs multiple sets. You can't just run 2x2 wr sets the whole game. Have to run multiple sets and formations to create angles and match ups you like against that defense.
 
You have to understand how formations and personnel groups manipulate defenses. Its not as simple as adding a skill guy on the field. You can create mix matches or cause a defense to make mistakes just with tempo and formations. I dont understand how people want SU to run the ball better but want to devalue what Elmore brings to the run game. I like the personnel match up of Elmore vs that extra LB in the box. It becomes old iso football but the LB's won't know which one of them will be Elmore's target because of the zone and gap concepts they use.
 
Last edited:
I love being an armchair genius...Well, maybe the blind squirrel finding an acorn analogy is more appropriate for me.
8
You have to understand how formations and personnel groups manipulate defenses. Its not as simple as adding a skill guy on the field. You can create mix matches or cause a defense to make mistakes just with tempo and formations. I dont understand how people want SU to run the ball better but want to devalue what Elmore brings to the run game. I like the personnel match up of Elmore vs that extra LB in the box. It becomes old iso football but the LB's won't know which one of them will be Elmore's target because of the zone and gap concepts they use.
Still would like a formation with Tucker, Elmore, QB under center, Mang, Benson, and Harris in the slot. You could power run, throw over the Middle, or go deep. You could run a lot of other plays with that grouping.
 
I blame concussions from the coaches playing days
mostly because like SU they dont think they can handle the pressure sets consistently without the threat of the extra blocker.. if SU goes 4 wide with 1 back that means teams can go cover Zero and put 7 in the box and we have to beat it.. who do you trust for SU to beat the 1-1 coverage , harris if he can get off the line. But we need to also block 7 if they do that and we havent shown we can block 3 yet.

Now if another WR shows he can handle the 1-1 suddenly it makes teams think about pressure so maybe they go cover 2 and suddenly its 5 in the box with 5 blockers and if the oline does its job teams have to throw the 6th into the box and now the cover 1 with 2 threats is a tough D to run

the best thing about the 3-3-5 is that it lets us cover guys from spots the Offense cant see and yet still play man or zone. you get a Pass rush DL in the mix and it really can be good.
 
mostly because like SU they dont think they can handle the pressure sets consistently without the threat of the extra blocker.. if SU goes 4 wide with 1 back that means teams can go cover Zero and put 7 in the box and we have to beat it.. who do you trust for SU to beat the 1-1 coverage , harris if he can get off the line. But we need to also block 7 if they do that and we havent shown we can block 3 yet.

Now if another WR shows he can handle the 1-1 suddenly it makes teams think about pressure so maybe they go cover 2 and suddenly its 5 in the box with 5 blockers and if the oline does its job teams have to throw the 6th into the box and now the cover 1 with 2 threats is a tough D to run

the best thing about the 3-3-5 is that it lets us cover guys from spots the Offense cant see and yet still play man or zone. you get a Pass rush DL in the mix and it really can be good.
I think Harris has incredible talent. But I’m not sure his strength is beating 1v1 coverage. I think it’s running with the ball after he catches it. Creating separation has been a problem for our WRs for a few years now. I’m hoping a couple of the young guys will make this happen.
 
mostly because like SU they dont think they can handle the pressure sets consistently without the threat of the extra blocker.. if SU goes 4 wide with 1 back that means teams can go cover Zero and put 7 in the box and we have to beat it.. who do you trust for SU to beat the 1-1 coverage , harris if he can get off the line. But we need to also block 7 if they do that and we havent shown we can block 3 yet.

Now if another WR shows he can handle the 1-1 suddenly it makes teams think about pressure so maybe they go cover 2 and suddenly its 5 in the box with 5 blockers and if the oline does its job teams have to throw the 6th into the box and now the cover 1 with 2 threats is a tough D to run

the best thing about the 3-3-5 is that it lets us cover guys from spots the Offense cant see and yet still play man or zone. you get a Pass rush DL in the mix and it really can be good.
Yup, it’s not about preferences. It’s about numbers and match ups. Its based on what you do well and what the defense is trying to take away from you. Hopefully we can take advantage of the numbers and make teams pay this year. Good post.
 
You have to understand how formations and personnel groups manipulate defenses. Its not as simple as adding a skill guy on the field. You can create mix matches or cause a defense to make mistakes just with tempo and formations. I dont understand how people want SU to run the ball better but want to devalue what Elmore brings to the run game. I like the personnel match up of Elmore vs that extra LB in the box. It becomes old iso football but the LB's won't know which one of them will be Elmore's target because of the zone and gap concepts they use.
I think there are easier ways to get the lb out of the box than having an extra big guy trying to kill him
 
If we can't block and Elmore is key to dealing with extra linebackers in the box, wake me up in 2022 and don't be surprised that this year is terrible too

The whole point of going to a Baylor offense was because there are easier ways to make space for guys who can score than this

Namely throw the ball sideways to an uncovered fast guy
 
I think there are easier ways to get the lb out of the box than having an extra big guy trying to kill him
Again, no one is saying you keep the same personnel the whole game. You mix it up like every other team does. With 21 personnel there will be 8 offensive players against 6 or 7 guys in the box. We can block that against most teams. Elmore is blocking LB's that are 30 pounds lighter. If we pass the ball well we might get 5 man boxes. Its a numbers game more than anything. We can kill teams with run or pass based on what they are trying to take away. Our best offense (2018) was good at both. We need that this year.
 
Last edited:
If we can't block and Elmore is key to dealing with extra linebackers in the box, wake me up in 2022 and don't be surprised that this year is terrible too

The whole point of going to a Baylor offense was because there are easier ways to make space for guys who can score than this

Namely throw the ball sideways to an uncovered fast guy
You think last years offense was messed up because we had a FB on a few plays?

I think what we need and may have this year is:

1. A functional offensive line
2. A camp where we installed some things that make the Baylor offense work again

The combo of a bad OL and the system becoming widespread enough to be a known commodity along with no camp to riff on it creatively made 2020 a dumpster fire. It wasn't Elmore.

What Go is advocating for in the OP is using the some of the same principles that made Baylors O click alongside players who can shift into different spots without the defense subbing.

I think that's what's needed - an evolved Baylor offense that's less predictable. Benson and Elmore are guys who can offer that.
 
I think Harris has incredible talent. But I’m not sure his strength is beating 1v1 coverage. I think it’s running with the ball after he catches it. Creating separation has been a problem for our WRs for a few years now. I’m hoping a couple of the young guys will make this happen.
That's why my suggestion with Elmore, Tucker, Mang, Benson. and Harris would be great. Cross Harris and Mang across the Middle, and Benson down sideline ,or toss to Tuker in the flat.
 
You think last years offense was messed up because we had a FB on a few plays?

I think what we need and may have this year is:

1. A functional offensive line
2. A camp where we installed some things that make the Baylor offense work again

The combo of a bad OL and the system becoming widespread enough to be a known commodity along with no camp to riff on it creatively made 2020 a dumpster fire. It wasn't Elmore.

What Go is advocating for in the OP is using the some of the same principles that made Baylors O click alongside players who can shift into different spots without the defense subbing.

I think that's what's needed - an evolved Baylor offense that's less predictable. Benson and Elmore are guys who can offer that.
I already said why last year was terrible. We don't need to evolve the Baylor offense to replace the width of the formation with width of hybrid fullbackguards
 
The whole point of going to a Baylor offense was because there are easier ways to make space for guys who can score than this

Namely throw the ball sideways to an uncovered fast guy
whole point of going to Baylor offense was what? Baylor was a top 10 rushing team during Briles era. They ran the ball my man. It’s called veer and shoot because it’s a mix of power running with the vertical pass game. # 3 rushing team in the nation in 2015. They didn’t do that running single back sets all game.

 
Last edited:
I already said why last year was terrible. We don't need to evolve the Baylor offense to replace the width of the formation with width of hybrid fullbackguards

you are missing the point, that personal group allows you to still spread the field by moving benson around but can load up in short yardage, Tucker has shown that he can be the fourth guy in the pattern in the flat or wheels

you can go no huddle and be multiple without substituting, you want to run bubbles throw Elmore out there to block on one side, better than nykiem being out in front
 
Where's the speed, where are the playmakers? We don't have any -- we never do. I expect another ugly year from the offense, would love to be proven wrong
 
Where's the speed, where are the playmakers? We don't have any -- we never do. I expect another ugly year from the offense, would love to be proven wrong
You may be better served by checking the Alabama roster
 

Forum statistics

Threads
171,888
Messages
4,980,685
Members
6,020
Latest member
OldeOstrom

Online statistics

Members online
232
Guests online
2,987
Total visitors
3,219


...
Top Bottom