End of Standart lot as we know it

[sutomcat]

Sorry, guys, I could've done better with specifics.

First, of course, "no one's losing any spots" means "no one's losing any spots in this round of construction." SU's going to build on all those blocks in the next 20 years. But SU's going to have a spot-for-spot replacement as part of this ESF construction.

SU's not interested in selling any land. They agreed to the swap because ESF wanted an SU-owned block closer to its own campus (the east end of Standart) and SU liked the ESF-owned block closer to its campus (the block with the apartment houses on it, directly east of Fine). So they'll trade. But SU's keeping the rest of Standart. And it'll have temporary parking on the Raynor/Stadium/Standart/Henry lot after those houses are demolished.

Regarding the southern half of the ESF lot with landscaping and such, that refers to the southeastern corner of the Standart lot, close to ESF's new dorm and their physical plant building. ESF is first going to build on the northwestern corner of its portion of the Standart lot (where the intersection of Standart and Henry would be if Henry extended through the parking lot). Eventually they'll build a second phase directly to the east. It'll be a thin building that fronts Standart street, only covering about a third of the lot. The southern portion will get landscaped (eventually developed, I imagine).

And the whole western half of Standart will remain in SU's control; it'll be surface parking until SU comes up with a use and a financial commitment and moves forward with a new building. Keep in mind that they're committed to keeping a certain number of parking spaces in that neighborhood, though; any new SU building will likely have an underground garage.

Sorry, that was a lot of words. A little bit of drawing on a map would probably make things clearer.

Excellent info Otto, and it certainly makes me feel better, though the western half of the Standart Lot isn't completely usable (the terrain is a little steep near the southwest corner and a big section has never been paved). Perhaps they can spend some money and flatten that area to make the whole area truly usable. That would be a good investment and remove a bottleneck where cars can only head down the hill west toward I-81 on the far north side of the lot today.

 

[TexanMark]

Really? And you think home game attendance is low now...

I thought for sure that you were at last year's USF tailgate. That should've convinced you that open air and late October/November games shouldn't mix. Yes, I know they do it elsewhere... but those people haven't been spoiled for 30+ years.

I agree...Once we get firmly entrenched in the ACC and see how our attendence is trending (I think we'll see a 10% uptick next year assuming DM can get us 5-7 wins) then I think the 10 year plan should be to build a retractable roof stadium with at least 44-50k seats...but engineer it to be able to expand it quickly with another 6-12k seats. Also, consideration should be made to improve a BB layout inside the new stadium. This would be an awesome research project for Architechure students at SU...to come up with some designs.

To me South Campus/Drumlins with an interchange on I-481 and road improvments to other feeder roads makes most sense. Another option if the school continues with a 2nd campus in/near Armory might be to place it somewhere between The Hill and Armory. That would require a huge State/City/University effort but has a high chance of ending ugly when the 24 hr news cycle, politics and Special Interest Groups clash. I have little faith in NY politics.

Finally, the best way for this to proceed is a mix of money...State/School and private. It should be part of a bigger plan to include retail, residential (Dorms, Apartments, Condos) and entertainment.

 

[rrlbees]

I agree...Once we get firmly entrenched in the ACC and see how our attendence is trending (I think we'll see a 10% uptick next year assuming DM can get us 5-7 wins) then I think the 10 year plan should be to build a retractable roof stadium with at least 44-50k seats...but engineer it to be able to expand it quickly with another 6-12k seats. Also, consideration should be made to improve a BB layout inside the new stadium. This would be an awesome research project for Architechure students at SU...to come up with some designs.

To me South Campus/Drumlins with an interchange on I-481 and road improvments to other feeder roads makes most sense. Another option if the school continues with a 2nd campus in/near Armory might be to place it somewhere between The Hill and Armory. That would require a huge State/City/University effort but has a high chance of ending ugly when the 24 hr news cycle, politics and Special Interest Groups clash. I have little faith in NY politics.

Finally, the best way for this to proceed is a mix of money...State/School and private. It should be part of a bigger plan to include retail, residential (Dorms, Apartments, Condos) and entertainment.

They should look to build it in Liverpool.

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[TexanMark]

They should look to build it in Liverpool.

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And a Monorail to put Fayetteville to shame!

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Really? And you think home game attendance is low now...

I thought for sure that you were at last year's USF tailgate. That should've convinced you that open air and late October/November games shouldn't mix. Yes, I know they do it elsewhere... but those people haven't been spoiled for 30+ years.

I don't think a private university can afford a retractable roof palace. Unless my Powerball numbers come in.

 

[orange79]

And a Monorail to put Fayetteville to shame!

I hear those things are awfully loud

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I hear those things are awfully loud

It glides as softly as a cloud.

 

[sutomcat]

I don't think a private university can afford a retractable roof palace. Unless my Powerball numbers come in.

The cost to build an open air stadium like Minnesota just built, and a good sized basketball facility, like NC State recently did, is the same as the cost to build a multi purpose facility with a retractable roof.

When you include real estate requirements, maintenance costs, the ability to use the facility for other purposes (like hosting conventions, Final Fours, major concerts all year long, etc.), ability to tie the facility to privately financed add ons like hotels, a mall, restaurants, etc., it is a no brainer.

I can't imagine Syracuse University ever building an open air stadium for football. You can't justify spending the kind of money it takes to build these things in the first place but you really can't justify spending $300 million (UM's cost $303.3 million) for a facility that will only be used a few times a year.

 

[BlueCurtain]

Lots of space next to the mall where they paved over those lots which will probably sit unused except during holiday shopping season. Would make tailgating and parking much more convenient. It's next to 81 and 690 interchange, and not too far from SU's presence near Armory.

 

[Orangello]

I expect to see an enclosed new facility on South campus within the next ten years. Don't know about the retractable roof as that is pretty darn expensive. I would be fine with a new Dome with AC this time. Wouldn't hold my breath to see a partially public funded project this time around given the long term negative state of NY and City finances.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I think South Campus has to be the place. A ton of room, near the highway, and with all of the students on south, we could actually see a legitimate student tailgating scene, at least for a few months.

How feasible would it be to build a retractable roof stadium the size of the Dome that would be even better than the Dome for bball, sight line-wise. Could you do it? Can't imagine they'd leave the Dome up for too long if theu built a new football stadium, and I don't see them building two state of the art arenas in a small timeframe without major NYS money.




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[OttoMets]

I think South Campus has to be the place. A ton of room, near the highway, and with all of the students on south, we could actually see a legitimate student tailgating scene, at least for a few months.

How feasible would it be to build a retractable roof stadium the size of the Dome that would be even better than the Dome for bball, sight line-wise. Could you do it? Can't imagine they'd leave the Dome up for too long if theu built a new football stadium, and I don't see them building two state of the art arenas in a small timeframe without major NYS money.




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I'll beat a dead horse and note that I hate the idea of a new stadium and any stadium that isn't on campus.

To answer your question, though, a multi-purpose building could have pretty good sightlines for basketball if the football surface were retractable and the basketball court sat 20 or 30 feet beneath it (with both depth and height around the court for more seats - with higher risers - than currently exists in the Dome).

Might be expensive, though.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I'll beat a dead horse and note that I hate the idea of a new stadium and any stadium that isn't on campus.

To answer your question, though, a multi-purpose building could have pretty good sightlines for basketball if the football surface were retractable and the basketball court sat 20 or 30 feet beneath it (with both depth and height around the court for more seats - with higher risers - than currently exists in the Dome).

Might be expensive, though.

I wish we could build on campus too, but the school is going to do what the school needs to do (build academic buildings), and South is technically still 'campus', and is close enough where people can treck over to main/Marshall St for pre- and post-game stuff. Plus tailgating would be unbelievable better, and students would actually be able to be a part of that, more-so than just some kids grilling on their lawns on Euclid.

 

[OttoMets]

I wish we could build on campus too, but the school is going to do what the school needs to do (build academic buildings), and South is technically still 'campus', and is close enough where people can treck over to main/Marshall St for pre- and post-game stuff. Plus tailgating would be unbelievable better, and students would actually be able to be a part of that, more-so than just some kids grilling on their lawns on Euclid.

I never understand the argument that tailgating would be better (though everyone does seem to share it). Some people would be closer together (as in, less scattered than today's Mt. Olympus/East Adams/Skytop/Manley/Fine arrangement), right? Just not sure how much of an improvement that is. Do people currently lament the difficulty in "tailgate-hopping"? And regarding the improvement for students, is grilling on your lawn on Lambreth better than grilling on your lawn on Euclid? Seems kind of the same. Maybe I'm missing something.

And access would be an enormous problem. Skytop's part of "campus" in that the university owns the land and some students live there, but it's out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded on two sides by private land (with no street connections) and on one side by another neighborhood with paltry street connections. No one's walking there (except for the relative handful of students who live on south and maybe some local fans who live around Barry Park and Sherman Park). So 50,000 people are going to drive cars to an SU game on Colvin/Nottingham/Lancaster/481. People think traffic is a pain now; they are going to lose their minds. Single-point freeway access to a big stadium has never worked anywhere (setting aside for a moment the engineering and financial hurdle of building a freeway exit).

Not doubting anyone's predictions about who's building what and where, but Skytop is as poor a location as the west side of campus is. People expecting improvements in certain areas are going to end up disappointed.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'll beat a dead horse and note that I hate the idea of a new stadium and any stadium that isn't on campus.

To answer your question, though, a multi-purpose building could have pretty good sightlines for basketball if the football surface were retractable and the basketball court sat 20 or 30 feet beneath it (with both depth and height around the court for more seats - with higher risers - than currently exists in the Dome).

Might be expensive, though.

A retractable roof isn't good enough ... now you want a retractable floor too?

 

[OttoMets]

A retractable roof isn't good enough ... now you want a retractable floor too?

It's especially ridiculous, because I'd be quick to say "What're you, nuts? Retractable roof, who's paying for that? Crazy!"

But the retractable floor, now that's a pretty sweet idea. I'd chip in.

 

[TexanMark]

It's especially ridiculous, because I'd be quick to say "What're you, nuts? Retractable roof, who's paying for that? Crazy!"

But the retractable floor, now that's a pretty sweet idea. I'd chip in.

Will we get the pony rides out at South Campus too?

To answer the tailgating question: If Cuse does it right, they will have plenty of grassy areas w/trees to spread out over and hopefully some comfort stations that include indoor plumbing...plus bigger lots in tailgating is generally better.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I never understand the argument that tailgating would be better (though everyone does seem to share it). Some people would be closer together (as in, less scattered than today's Mt. Olympus/East Adams/Skytop/Manley/Fine arrangement), right? Just not sure how much of an improvement that is. Do people currently lament the difficulty in "tailgate-hopping"? And regarding the improvement for students, is grilling on your lawn on Lambreth better than grilling on your lawn on Euclid? Seems kind of the same. Maybe I'm missing something.

And access would be an enormous problem. Skytop's part of "campus" in that the university owns the land and some students live there, but it's out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded on two sides by private land (with no street connections) and on one side by another neighborhood with paltry street connections. No one's walking there (except for the relative handful of students who live on south and maybe some local fans who live around Barry Park and Sherman Park). So 50,000 people are going to drive cars to an SU game on Colvin/Nottingham/Lancaster/481. People think traffic is a pain now; they are going to lose their minds. Single-point freeway access to a big stadium has never worked anywhere (setting aside for a moment the engineering and financial hurdle of building a freeway exit).

Not doubting anyone's predictions about who's building what and where, but Skytop is as poor a location as the west side of campus is. People expecting improvements in certain areas are going to end up disappointed.

Tailgating would be better because there would be much more room to do it, people would all generally be in the same area, and it probably wouldn't be nearly as expensive/competitive to get a decent space near the stadium.

 

[Upstate]

As awesome as a 50,000 seat outdoor stadium sounds...it's just so nice to be warm during late-fall football games.

 

[rocklloyd]

It glides as softly as a cloud.

Was hoping we could dust of the gondola plan some politician floated several years ago. N

 

[OttoMets]

Green space and more availability would be nice.