End of Standart lot as we know it

[cuseguy]

But moving a bit north

Didn't we already know this was coming?

http://dailyorange.com/2012/09/su-parking-lot-to-house-academic-building/

 

[sutomcat]

But moving a bit north

Didn't we already know this was coming?

http://dailyorange.com/2012/09/su-parking-lot-to-house-academic-building/

We did. The lot moving a block north actually makes it a little more convenient for people walking to and from the Dome; it is one less block to walk now.

However, the Standart Lot is twice the size of the replacement lot. SU already owned and paved over the land west of the new lot (this is the famous Fine Lot).

I think traffic flow out of the lot after games end will be a lot more problematic. The Standart Lot had two exits; one on Standart Street and one on Fineview Place. It was possible to get to Fineview and bypass the glut of cars that go west down Van Buren and Raynor. With the new setup, we will lose half the parking spaces we had and this will not be possible. I hope they allow people to exit the new lot on Standart and Raynor, where from Standart you would go around the old Standart lot heading east to Stadium Place, then south on Stadium Place, west on Oakland St and finally north on Fineview.

Brace yourself for significant delays...this, coupled with the other 2 lost parking lots, is going to make a major impact on traffic patterns. Especially for basketball. Especially during the winter when space is often lost in lots because of excess snow build up.

 

[orangesox44]

Yes. According to the article in the paper yesterday the houses in between standardt and stadium lots are coming down to make a parking lot for all the cars from standardt. At least they're keeping some lots up there for now. I had heard that all of the lots are coming out of there eventually.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/college_of_envrionmental_scien.html

They paved a parking lot and put up paradise.

Hopefully they're smart enough to demolish the houses for parking BEFORE starting construction.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Hopefully they're smart enough to demolish the houses for parking BEFORE starting construction.

LOL yeah Syracuse would never screw something like that up......

 

[OttoMets]

ESF only aquired half the Standart lot. SU still owns the western half and will use it for surface parking.

No one's losing any spots.

 

[JeremyCuse]

ESF only aquired half the Standart lot. SU still owns the western half and will use it for surface parking.

No one's losing any spots.

Otto thanks man your insight has been great with this situation.. One point though in that article Extreme noted the person from ESF indicated they were going to utilize the second half to do landscape and I think a Marsh or something, you positive SU is keeping it?

 

[cuseguy]

ESF only aquired half the Standart lot. SU still owns the western half and will use it for surface parking.

No one's losing any spots.

Sure about that?

This is all I could get out of the story. Doesn't say anything about surface parking?

The building will take up only about half of the lot. The southern half of the lot will be landscaped with a variety of trees, plants, a marsh and walkways.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Sure about that?

This is all I could get out of the story. Doesn't say anything about surface parking?

The building will take up only about half of the lot. The southern half of the lot will be landscaped with a variety of trees, plants, a marsh and walkways.

LOL smart minds think alike.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The building will take up only about half of the lot. The southern half of the lot will be landscaped with a variety of trees, plants, a marsh and walkways.

Why would a Forrestry school plant a lot of trees?

 

[TexanMark]

We did. The lot moving a block north actually makes it a little more convenient for people walking to and from the Dome; it is one less block to walk now.

However, the Standart Lot is twice the size of the replacement lot. SU already owned and paved over the land west of the new lot (this is the famous Fine Lot).

I think traffic flow out of the lot after games end will be a lot more problematic. The Standart Lot had two exits; one on Standart Street and one on Fineview Place. It was possible to get to Fineview and bypass the glut of cars that go west down Van Buren and Raynor. With the new setup, we will lose half the parking spaces we had and this will not be possible. I hope they allow people to exit the new lot on Standart and Raynor, where from Standart you would go around the old Standart lot heading east to Stadium Place, then south on Stadium Place, west on Oakland St and finally north on Fineview.

Brace yourself for significant delays...this, coupled with the other 2 lost parking lots, is going to make a major impact on traffic patterns. Especially for basketball. Especially during the winter when space is often lost in lots because of excess snow build up.

Here is a PDF showing the lots as they are today. Cuse is getting the block between the Fine Lot and Sadler. They appear to be giving up half of Standart (east half closest to the Dome). Otto is in the loop on this...so I feel a little better. However, I see a nasty supply and demand curve coming especially for basketball. If football starts to win again it will be real bad for football too.

Chancy Nancy ought to be getting the train going again from Armory Square. If they had parking agreements down around Armory Square and some lots and build a train ride into it for Basketball and football...I bet it would get used. I would not have a problem moving The Fine Mess to the trolley lot. Destiny might have an even stronger draw now for students and Hill residents and the train use might become less of a drag on gov't resources as ridership increases. Could Syracuse University even think about building or remodeling more buildings downtown as land becomes more scarce on the Hill?

 

[OttoMets]

Sorry, guys, I could've done better with specifics.

First, of course, "no one's losing any spots" means "no one's losing any spots in this round of construction." SU's going to build on all those blocks in the next 20 years. But SU's going to have a spot-for-spot replacement as part of this ESF construction.

SU's not interested in selling any land. They agreed to the swap because ESF wanted an SU-owned block closer to its own campus (the east end of Standart) and SU liked the ESF-owned block closer to its campus (the block with the apartment houses on it, directly east of Fine). So they'll trade. But SU's keeping the rest of Standart. And it'll have temporary parking on the Raynor/Stadium/Standart/Henry lot after those houses are demolished.

Regarding the southern half of the ESF lot with landscaping and such, that refers to the southeastern corner of the Standart lot, close to ESF's new dorm and their physical plant building. ESF is first going to build on the northwestern corner of its portion of the Standart lot (where the intersection of Standart and Henry would be if Henry extended through the parking lot). Eventually they'll build a second phase directly to the east. It'll be a thin building that fronts Standart street, only covering about a third of the lot. The southern portion will get landscaped (eventually developed, I imagine).

And the whole western half of Standart will remain in SU's control; it'll be surface parking until SU comes up with a use and a financial commitment and moves forward with a new building. Keep in mind that they're committed to keeping a certain number of parking spaces in that neighborhood, though; any new SU building will likely have an underground garage.

Sorry, that was a lot of words. A little bit of drawing on a map would probably make things clearer.

 

[OttoMets]

Here is a PDF showing the lots as they are today. Cuse is getting the block between the Fine Lot and Sadler. They appear to be giving up half of Standart (east half closest to the Dome). Otto is in the loop on this...so I feel a little better. However, I see a nasty supply and demand curve coming especially for basketball. Chancy Nancy better be getting the train going again from Armory Square.

You and I have discussed the train thing a bit in the past; it's a great idea.

One stumbling block (in addition to the stumbling blocks that led to its cancellation in the first place): the city sold the Jefferson Street train station to a private company about a year ago. It's office space now. So if service re-starts, someone's going to need to construct a place to board the train on the Armory end.

Seemed a short-sighted decision by Syracuse.

 

[cuseguy]

Funny, though. Last time I parked in the Fine Lot for the Northwestern game, there really weren't that many gameday/tailgate people in that lot. Always seemed like that lot was full of tailgaters. Now it's full of students who are just parking there because they have nowhere else to park. Seems like they moved some people over to the Standart Lot once those people realized they couldn't park in the Fine Lot. So, when they say those lots have sold out, that's really a half-truth. Just wish SU had a better parking situation around the dome. They're trying to get people to come to the games, but the game-day atmosphere/parking has become one of the issues hurting attendance.

 

[cuseguy]

Sorry, guys, I could've done better with specifics.

First, of course, "no one's losing any spots" means "no one's losing any spots in this round of construction." SU's going to build on all those blocks in the next 20 years. But SU's going to have a spot-for-spot replacement as part of this ESF construction.

SU's not interested in selling any land. They agreed to the swap because ESF wanted an SU-owned block closer to its own campus (the east end of Standart) and SU liked the ESF-owned block closer to its campus (the block with the apartment houses on it, directly east of Fine). So they'll trade. But SU's keeping the rest of Standart. And it'll have temporary parking on the Raynor/Stadium/Standart/Henry lot after those houses are demolished.

Regarding the southern half of the ESF lot with landscaping and such, that refers to the southeastern corner of the Standart lot, close to ESF's new dorm and their physical plant building. ESF is first going to build on the northwestern corner of its portion of the Standart lot (where the intersection of Standart and Henry would be if Henry extended through the parking lot). Eventually they'll build a second phase directly to the east. It'll be a thin building that fronts Standart street, only covering about a third of the lot. The southern portion will get landscaped (eventually developed, I imagine).

And the whole western half of Standart will remain in SU's control; it'll be surface parking until SU comes up with a use and a financial commitment and moves forward with a new building. Keep in mind that they're committed to keeping a certain number of parking spaces in that neighborhood, though; any new SU building will likely have an underground garage.

Sorry, that was a lot of words. A little bit of drawing on a map would probably make things clearer.

Thanks, makes more sense now. I had my map in front of me as I was reading your description, so it was easy to picture.

 

[TexanMark]

You and I have discussed the train thing a bit in the past; it's a great idea.

One stumbling block (in addition to the stumbling blocks that led to its cancellation in the first place): the city sold the Jefferson Street train station to a private company about a year ago. It's office space now. So if service re-starts, someone's going to need to construct a place to board the train on the Armory end.

Seemed a short-sighted decision by Syracuse.

Ouch...must of forgot that...wow...kinda stupid. well not the end of the world but something can be worked around. The old train station was nice and awesome to have clean, indoor rest rooms when tailgating in the trolley lot.

 

[OttoMets]

Thanks, makes more sense now. I had my map in front of me as I was reading your description, so it was easy to picture.

That map helps; one thing that jumps out at me: SU has a really underutilized piece of property where the Dome TV deck is (at the north end of Hendricks Field, on the uphill end of Sadler.

Seems like a great spot for a garage, with some Dome storage and a new TV deck on top of it. Access may be tough, but parking garage access at sports venues is always something of a hassle.

I suppose they can't justify the cost, though.

Speaking of cost, it's unfortunate that so many parking spots are taken by students who live in Campus West. It's incomprehensible how little students pay for such prime spots, especially considering the University's push to be "green." I would think the school would want to disincentivize car storage and use by students. At the very least, you'd think they'd be asked to pay market rate for the privilege of such close-in spots.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You and I have discussed the train thing a bit in the past; it's a great idea.

One stumbling block (in addition to the stumbling blocks that led to its cancellation in the first place): the city sold the Jefferson Street train station to a private company about a year ago. It's office space now. So if service re-starts, someone's going to need to construct a place to board the train on the Armory end.

Seemed a short-sighted decision by Syracuse.

And the trolly parking lot is now full of sewage treatment storage tanks.

 

[TexanMark]

And the trolly parking lot is now full of sewage treatment storage tanks.

All of it? I though about half the lot was still there? Guess I need to do a pub crawl again in Armory and reintroduce myself.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

All of it? I though about half the lot was still there? Guess I need to do a pub crawl again in Armory and reintroduce myself.

Can't drive through the tunnel anymore; it's fenced off due to the construction.

Maybe you can get there from Sadie's Place?

 

[TexanMark]

Can't drive through the tunnel anymore; it's fenced off due to the construction.

IIRC that is temporary and about half the lot would revert back to a parking lot. I think it would be fascinating to see what long term land use plan the University has near Armory Square.

 

[rrlbees]

None of it matters. Eventually there won't be any lots except a couple small student lots since football will go to south campus.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OrangeXtreme]

None of it matters. Eventually there won't be any lots except a couple small student lots since football will go to south campus.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

I wouldn't have a problem with a nice 55,000 seat outdoor stadium similar to Minnesota's.

I would be upset with outdoor LAX in February. Unless the Dome would still be available for use if necessary.

 

[orange79]

I wouldn't have a problem with a nice 55,000 seat outdoor stadium similar to Minnesota's.

I would be upset with outdoor LAX in February. Unless the Dome would still be available for use if necessary.

Interesting question - would they build a new FB stadium but keep the Dome for BB and Lax (and FH, prob)? Takes a lot of money to keep up the Dome, especially as it ages.

 

[Moontan]

I wouldn't have a problem with a nice 55,000 seat outdoor stadium similar to Minnesota's.

Really? And you think home game attendance is low now...

I thought for sure that you were at last year's USF tailgate. That should've convinced you that open air and late October/November games shouldn't mix. Yes, I know they do it elsewhere... but those people haven't been spoiled for 30+ years.