ESPN ACC position rankings: Defensive line

[bnoro]

Valid points.

I counter with Steven was not surrounded by top tier talent on the line, at linebacker and DBs. Steven clearly has a larger hill to climb and when the whole DL is presumed NFL caliber talent, each individual should have great stats. In a lesser line, teams will run away from standouts providing less opportunities to display their full talents.

In comparing a unit, yes, Syracuse should be marked down in comparison. Praising an individual from a top level DL does allow for comparison to that individual, the picture must be taken en toto.

I state the above to reiterate that the real analysts, the ones that work for the NFL teams, will know how good a player really is.

I think Steven is a good player but he's vastly overrated by this board because his father is on it.

You literally just put the entire defense down to build up one player, including our two excellent linebackers who are infinitely more important to the defense. Which is ridiculous.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Valid points.

I counter with Steven was not surrounded by top tier talent on the line, at linebacker and DBs. Steven clearly has a larger hill to climb and when the whole DL is presumed NFL caliber talent, each individual should have great stats. In a lesser line, teams will run away from standouts providing less opportunities to display their full talents.

In comparing a unit, yes, Syracuse should be marked down in comparison. Praising an individual from a top level DL does allow for comparison to that individual, the picture must be taken en toto.

I state the above to reiterate that the real analysts, the ones that work for the NFL teams, will know how good a player really is.

Really strange post

 

[money3189]

Our defense needs to improve in all phases. I watch 3 - 4 games a week. Over and over again. We were not good. Zaire is the only defender that would start for any ACC team.

 

[djorange1989]

Considering our defense was an across the board trainwreck we can't expect any of the units to be rated anywhere but low. All we need to worry about is the O and D both improving and I believe both will.

 

[HtownOrange]

I think Steven is a good player but he's vastly overrated by this board because his father is on it.

You literally just put the entire defense down to build up one player, including our two excellent linebackers who are infinitely more important to the defense. Which is ridiculous.

No, I didn't put down the entire defense. As has been pointed out, the defense was weak last year, for many reasons. I addressed a specific point regarding whether Steven's numbers were comparable to a competitor that was well praised publicly. You made valid arguments that the other player, Christmas (see post #22) may not have gotten as many plays to rack up numbers. I countered with the fact that the Syracuse D was weak, there was not an elite cadre of players surrounding Steven, as there was with Christmas. To this point, the discussion was factual and respectful.

I have been very supportive of this team over the years. I admit the defense was weak and that a new system, many young players and many injuries will make for a bad defense. This does not translate in to putting down the entire defense, it is stating facts. You appear to agree with me, see post 23, "We were also a 4-8 team with the worst defense in the ACC." By your own standard, you "literally just put the entire defense down".

As to the two linebackers being "infinitely more important", "infinitely" is an overstatement, but I can respect your opinion. I respect Franklin and I hope he shines well enough to get a shot at playing on Sundays. The kid seems like a leader in every way (future coach or similar accomplishment?). I believe that some players can be more important or a key to a defense (or offense), I still believe that it takes 11 players working together to fully execute any scheme, and that opposing teams will take a play towards towards what they believe to be the weakest link(s). (See HCDB, the whole offense is designed to exploit the weakest link on any given play - even if it is the best player who happens to be out of position)

We can disagree while maintaining some level of decorum, tat is what makes this board great. We are not Rutgers or UConn.

 

[Ish88888]

I think Steven is a good player but he's vastly overrated by this board because his father is on it.

You literally just put the entire defense down to build up one player, including our two excellent linebackers who are infinitely more important to the defense. Which is ridiculous.

Don't agree, our interior DL was solid last year. We never got gashed on the inside. The A and B Gaps were defended, teams simply went over the top and beat us. Also, the function of DTs is to eat up OLman and overall our lbs were lacking in picking up the pieces.

 

[bnoro]

Don't agree, our interior DL was solid last year. We never got gashed on the inside. The A and B Gaps were defended, teams simply went over the top and beat us. Also, the function of DTs is to eat up OLman and overall our lbs were lacking in picking up the pieces.

I never said our interior DL wasn't solid. Read my post.

 

[bcubs9497]

I think Steven is a good player but he's vastly overrated by this board because his father is on it.

You literally just put the entire defense down to build up one player, including our two excellent linebackers who are infinitely more important to the defense. Which is ridiculous.

I think Steven is a good player but he's vastly overrated by this board because his father is on it.

You literally just put the entire defense down to build up one player, including our two excellent linebackers who are infinitely more important to the defense. Which is ridiculous.

Hnmmmm....

 

[RMH44]

I never said our interior DL wasn't solid. Read my post.

Maybe not, but because you misread a post, you felt compelled to single out a player that is a part of the interior DL.

I'm not sure if you enjoyed slamming the player or his father more? Really bad form.

 

[bcubs9497]

Maybe not, but because you misread a post, you felt compelled to single out a player that is a part of the interior DL.

I'm not sure if you enjoyed slamming the player or his father more? Really bad form.

I was wondering if he's married to Andrea...

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I'm not sure if you enjoyed slamming the player or his father more? Really bad form.

Nowhere did he say Clark is a bad player or say anything negative about him other than essentially, "I don't think he's an elite player." He also didn't insult his father, other than pointing out the traditional phenomenon of people taking a special interest in players that have parents who post here.

Bcubs is a valued member of the community, but that doesn't mean we have to be reverent to Clark. Especially when the first line of Bnoro's post was, "I think Clark is a good player."

 

[money3189]

To bnoro credit, saying a player or group is over rated is not saying they arent solid. I think most would agree that our interior is solid but I don't think you can say we are top 5 ACC. We don't show any evidence of that. If we are gonna be critical of the coaches we also have to expect a lot from the players. I do understand the DE's have to do their job in order for the interior to make plays. Lets see what happens this year. Clark, Slayton, Samuels, Williams comes back with alot of experience. I expect them to be alot better. We can't just blame the coaches.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Maybe not, but because you misread a post, you felt compelled to single out a player that is a part of the interior DL.

I'm not sure if you enjoyed slamming the player or his father more? Really bad form.

Another weird post. He didn't slam anybody.

Bnoro has contributed more to the football board with regards to recruiting over the years than practically everyone here.

The obsession some have with family members of players is really weird.

 

[baggerbob]

To bnoro credit, saying a player or group is over rated is not saying they arent solid. I think most would agree that our interior is solid but I don't think you can say we are top 5 ACC. We don't show any evidence of that. If we are gonna be critical of the coaches we also have to expect a lot from the players. I do understand the DE's have to do their job in order for the interior to make plays. Lets see what happens this year. Clark, Slayton, Samuels, Williams comes back with alot of experience. I expect them to be alot better. We can't just blame the coaches.

As for saying our linebackers are good, that doesn't show in the ability to stop the run for the past 2 years. Even when we had Thompson and Raymon we were being run over. Take out the Rhode Island game from 2015, and everyone averaged almost 5.5 yards per carry. Franklin and Bennett make a lot of tackles, but most of the time get carried more yards after the initial hit. We need linebackers like Smith, and Hogue who stopped running backs.

 

[RMH44]

Another weird post. He didn't slam anybody.

Bnoro has contributed more to the football board with regards to recruiting over the years than practically everyone here.

The obsession some have with family members of players is really weird.

Well, I'm sure there are many here that think his recruiting contributions are vastly over rated but keep it themselves.

I have many opinions regarding players that I'd never express here because, IMO, it would show poor taste on my part. Same could be said for the inside information I get regularly. Point is...some things are better left unsaid.

Additionally, there are ways to convey a point of view without coming across like a complete DB. Know-it-alls are annoying enough, add the typical condescending tone of many of his posts and it becomes obnoxious.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I have many opinions regarding players that I'd never express here because, IMO, it would show poor taste on my part. Same could be said for the inside information I get regularly. Point is...some things are better left unsaid.

So it's improper to say that one feels a player is good but not elite?

 

[bcubs9497]

So it's improper to say that one feels a player is good but not elite?

Not at all. That's his opinion. Not gospel, however, by any means.

 

[money3189]

As for saying our linebackers are good, that doesn't show in the ability to stop the run for the past 2 years. Even when we had Thompson and Raymon we were being run over. Take out the Rhode Island game from 2015, and everyone averaged almost 5.5 yards per carry. Franklin and Bennett make a lot of tackles, but most of the time get carried more yards after the initial hit. We need linebackers like Smith, and Hogue who stopped running backs.

Your right a lot their tackles are made down the field after initial contact but I watch a lot of film on Zaire. He has instincts just as good as any of those LB's you mentioned. He had 10 TFL's. Its hard to get those against ACC offenses. If we had stronger DE's to bracket in ball carriers. Zaire would have even more tackles within the LOS. Keep in mind the competition level Hogue, Smith and Spruill played in the old Big East.

 

[money3189]

Well, I'm sure there are many here that think his recruiting contributions are vastly over rated but keep it themselves.

I have many opinions regarding players that I'd never express here because, IMO, it would show poor taste on my part. Same could be said for the inside information I get regularly. Point is...some things are better left unsaid.

Additionally, there are ways to convey a point of view without coming across like a complete DB. Know-it-alls are annoying enough, add the typical condescending tone of many of his posts and it becomes obnoxious.

I think we all kinda hold back because we don't want to come across as bashing a kid. At the same time its pretty normal to get critical at times when you follow a team as much as we do. This is a forum, so its suppose to stay here. Im fine with it as long as its not constant negativity on a particular player. Bashing publicaly is when I have a problem with it.

 

[bnoro]

Well, I'm sure there are many here that think his recruiting contributions are vastly over rated but keep it themselves.

I have many opinions regarding players that I'd never express here because, IMO, it would show poor taste on my part. Same could be said for the inside information I get regularly. Point is...some things are better left unsaid.

Additionally, there are ways to convey a point of view without coming across like a complete DB. Know-it-alls are annoying enough, add the typical condescending tone of many of his posts and it becomes obnoxious.

There's an ignore button if you don't like what I have to say.

 

[bnoro]

I think we all kinda hold back because we don't want to come across as bashing a kid. At the same time its pretty normal to get critical at times when you follow a team as much as we do. This is a forum, so its suppose to stay here. Im fine with it as long as its not constant negativity on a particular player. Bashing publicaly is when I have a problem with it.

I don't think I've ever bashed a player on this board. Nor did I bash Steven. I think he's a good player like I've said. I'd love for him to make the next step and become an All-ACC player for us. I root for all our players equally.

Just because Mr. Clark is on the board doesn't mean I'm going to agree with everything he says, and I'm glad he realizes this as well and we can have a civilized discussion on these boards. If he has an issue with something I'm saying I have no problem discussing further, and I respect his opinions.

 

[RMH44]

There's an ignore button if you don't like what I have to say.

Exactly the answer I expected. Btw, it's more about how you say things rather than what you say...but then again, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

 

[bnoro]

Exactly the answer I expected. Btw, it's more about how you say things rather than what you say...but then again, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

You misinterpret my bluntness as condescending tone.

 

[money3189]

I don't think I've ever bashed a player on this board. Nor did I bash Steven. I think he's a good player like I've said. I'd love for him to make the next step and become an All-ACC player for us. I root for all our players equally.

Just because Mr. Clark is on the board doesn't mean I'm going to agree with everything he says, and I'm glad he realizes this as well and we can have a civilized discussion on these boards. If he has an issue with something I'm saying I have no problem discussing further, and I respect his opinions.

I didnt think you said anything wrong. I wasnt talking about anyone in particular. I was just stating what I wouldnt want this board to become. I feel the exact same as you. If you are gonna be a parent on this forum, your gonna have to hear the good and the bad. Its the risk you take. and BCubs doesnt mind that. Its other posters who feel like they have to protect or sugar coat their thoughts on steven because of his father. It shouldnt be that way. There has been discussions about several players and recruits that I have a relationship with. I don't personally like to talk about them on this board because of those reasons. I don't want people to hold back their thoughts because they are worried about offending me.

 

[bcubs9497]

I didnt think you said anything wrong. I wasnt talking about anyone in particular. I was just stating what I wouldnt want this board to become. I feel the exact same as you. If you are gonna be a parent on this forum, your gonna have to hear the good and the bad. Its the risk you take. and BCubs doesnt mind that. Its other posters who feel like they have to protect or sugar coat their thoughts on steven because of his father. It shouldnt be that way. There has been discussions about several players and recruits that I have a relationship with. I don't personally like to talk about them on this board because of those reasons. I don't want people to hold back their thoughts because they are worried about offending me.

Only time it bothers me is when it's done in a DB kind of way; it's disrespectful. Besides, I already know what the coaches think of him as a player. They're the ones that really count, I suppose.