ESPN article on which ACC programs have the most to offer recruits

[IthacaMatt]

Really?

Because who's trying to go to Indiana now. 95% of their success came under one coach.

What did Duke do before Coach K? NC State at one point was the 2nd best program in the ACC after UNC.

Kid's weren't climbing up hills to go play for Billy Gillespie.

The only school on that list that have had real sustained success under multiple coaches is UNC and Kansas. We will see how UNC does under Hubert.

I will say one thing that does not matter is the weather. If the weather decided who was good at sports Arizona State and Miami would be dominating.

Indiana - nope. They won 2 NCAA Tournament championships before Bobby Knight. Branch McCracken was the legendary coach there for more than 25 years. Since Bobby Knight, they have made another Final Four, plus 3 more Sweet 16's.

Duke made 3 Final Fours plus an Elite 8 before Coach K. Plus Bill Foster built some pretty good teams with Mike Gminski, Gene Banks and Jim Spanarkal right before Coach K got the job.

UCLA has had 5 coaches since John Wooden retired. Jim Harrick won a national championship, Steve Lavin made 5 straight Sweet 16's, and Ben Howland made 3 straight Final Fours.

So, say what you want to, but programs that gain that national pedigree / reputation have an easier time re-climbing the mountain after the "main" head coach is gone. I believe we also fit that profile.

 

[chugg21]

All these so-called rankings have a recency bias even if the article suggests otherwise. It's just how our primitive brains work. Would anyone have debated that we were tier 2 following our program's run from 09-14? Heck if anything I'd bet many would suggest we should be in the tier 1 discussion.

I was trying to blend prestige along with recent success. Probably forgor to add Texas to tier 2. Mostly because of money.

Indiana - nope. They won 2 NCAA Tournament championships before Bobby Knight. Branch McCracken was the legendary coach there for more than 25 years. Since Bobby Knight, they have made another Final Four, plus 3 more Sweet 16's.

Duke made 3 Final Fours plus an Elite 8 before Coach K. Plus Bill Foster built some pretty good teams with Mike Gminski, Gene Banks and Jim Spanarkal right before Coach K got the job.

UCLA has had 5 coaches since John Wooden retired. Jim Harrick won a national championship, Steve Lavin made 5 straight Sweet 16's, and Ben Howland made 3 straight Final Fours.

So, say what you want to, but programs that gain that national pedigree / reputation have an easier time re-climbing the mountain after the "main" head coach is gone. I believe we also fit that profile.

Can tack another one on for Cronin at UCLA too.

 

[Chip]

Tier 1

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think this will change a lot in the NIL era. Kids are gonna want to go to colleges that offer them the best opportunities to brand themselves and make money. That will be schools with big rabid fan bases and elite national brands. Syracuse certainly fits that bill, more so than a school like Baylor or even a program like Virginia.

I think it'll even out more than you think.

Players will need to make small fish-big pond vs big fish-small pond decisions.

Being the #1 in a college only town could be a whole lot better than being down the program pecking order in a city with professional athletes.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I understand to live - but I went to college in Oneonta. There were fun bars that you went to with your friends. I couldn't have asked for more. Are most high school seniors really worried about whether there's a good school system in Manlius or if there's a farmer's market or a thriving food scene?

Of course high school seniors don’t give a crap about that stuff. Come on man.



It’s the hiking trails and symphony bringing them in.

 

[Day2]

Weather is more of an issue for Syracuse when recruiting against fellow ACC schools that have the advantage of Southern climates. It’s not an issue for Big 10 schools because they’re all on equal footing when they’re recruiting against each other because they all have the same relative climate.

Another reason why I would have preferred a move to the Big 10.

 

[SBU72]

University of Minnesota has a tunnel system to get around campus, though, so there's that.

40 years ago I went to a week long seminar at the school of Mines at UofM. Back then it seemed like a HUGE campus (considering I went to Bona with under 3k students!) I was told many students need bikes just to get from arts classes to science classes. Then there was the bridge that crossed the Mississippi (?), 100's of ft high and 1/4 mile long. Had a covered walk for winter time. Couldn't imagine having to kake that trek in January!

 

[SBU72]

Think the hope is that we hold onto the tier 2 status that keeps us among the top dozen or so programs and those types of jobs only come open so often. Things get a little muddier down in tier 3 which probably adds another dozen schools. Think my breakdown looks something like this...

Tier 1
Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Kansas

Tier 2
UCLA
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Indiana
Villanova
Gonzaga
Syracuse
Ohio State
Michigan State
Michigan
UCONN

Think SU makes 2nd tier because of the length of that group. It certainly isn't a ranking ing that group so the cut off is arbitrary.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Think SU makes 2nd tier because of the length of that group. It certainly isn't a ranking ing that group so the cut off is arbitrary.

We are a top 10-15 job in the country according to the people involved in the sport. Every survey over the past 15 years has shown this.

 

[richard levy]

When they asked Stevie Thompson about the winter weather in Syracuse, he replied, "it doesn't snow in the Carrier Dome"

 

[SBU72]

We are a top 10-15 job in the country according to the people involved in the sport. Every survey over the past 15 years has shown this.

The proof will be seen in a few (?) years. I hope you're right. If the school decides to go with one of the assistants, I hope they make/announce that decision soon so said person could really push the recruiting.

 

[Sherman20]

Indiana - nope. They won 2 NCAA Tournament championships before Bobby Knight. Branch McCracken was the legendary coach there for more than 25 years. Since Bobby Knight, they have made another Final Four, plus 3 more Sweet 16's.

Duke made 3 Final Fours plus an Elite 8 before Coach K. Plus Bill Foster built some pretty good teams with Mike Gminski, Gene Banks and Jim Spanarkal right before Coach K got the job.

UCLA has had 5 coaches since John Wooden retired. Jim Harrick won a national championship, Steve Lavin made 5 straight Sweet 16's, and Ben Howland made 3 straight Final Fours.

So, say what you want to, but programs that gain that national pedigree / reputation have an easier time re-climbing the mountain after the "main" head coach is gone. I believe we also fit that profile.

100 percent. Why do keep people keep repeating that talking point? Syracuse basketball will be fine post Boeheim.

 

[Sherman20]

For a long time I have been voicing my opinion that SU is not the destination program for either players or coaches. And usually I get dumped on for it. If as pointed out in the op, SU may be just a tier 3 program in some opinions, why am I wrong? If SU can't seriously compete against the top 4 recruiting schools in the league, how can SU attract the top level coaching people think will replace JB?

You get dumped on for it because you’re wrong.

 

[Sherman20]

Think the hope is that we hold onto the tier 2 status that keeps us among the top dozen or so programs and those types of jobs only come open so often. Things get a little muddier down in tier 3 which probably adds another dozen schools. Think my breakdown looks something like this...

Tier 1
Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Kansas

Tier 2
UCLA
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Indiana
Villanova
Gonzaga
Syracuse
Ohio State
Michigan State
Michigan
UCONN

Gonzaga and Virginia shouldn’t be anywhere near this list.

 

[Alsacs]

For a long time I have been voicing my opinion that SU is not the destination program for either players or coaches. And usually I get dumped on for it. If as pointed out in the op, SU may be just a tier 3 program in some opinions, why am I wrong? If SU can't seriously compete against the top 4 recruiting schools in the league, how can SU attract the top level coaching people think will replace JB?

Syracuse isn’t a little rinky dink small catholic school in Olean, NY like St. Bonaventure.

The fanbase is there to support for basketball and the access to talent will be there to succeed after Jim Boeheim.
Tier 3 program?
Okay.
Look at the top 10 most profitable division 1 basketball programs.
Syracuse is top 5.
The basketball program is not a tier 3 program.

This fanbase thinks only Jim Boeheim can be successful at Syracuse that simply hasn’t been proven.
The next HC is unlikely to come close to the success that Jim Boeheim had but programs similar to Syracuse have had to replace legends and they haven’t become tier 3 programs.

Syracuse won’t be recruiting like Kentucky or Duke but we can recruit as a top 4 program.
Maybe having a 76 year old HC has something to do with our recruiting.
Put Mike Hopkins in there he will recruit.

Also you don’t even need to recruit like duke or Kentucky to be top 4 consistently in conference.

 

[chugg21]

Gonzaga and Virginia shouldn’t be anywhere near this list.

Hard disagree. Both are found in the top 5-10 consistently for years now should probably be on it. Gonzaga is now getting top 10 recruits regularly as well. If neither of them are a top 15 job at this point then you should probably let us all know how to build our time machines too.

 

[SBU72]

Syracuse isn’t a little rinky dink small catholic school in Olean, NY like St. Bonaventure.

The fanbase is there to support for basketball and the access to talent will be there to succeed after Jim Boeheim.
Tier 3 program?
Okay.
Look at the top 10 most profitable division 1 basketball programs.
Syracuse is top 5.
The basketball program is not a tier 3 program.

This fanbase thinks only Jim Boeheim can be successful at Syracuse that simply hasn’t been proven.
The next HC is unlikely to come close to the success that Jim Boeheim had but programs similar to Syracuse have had to replace legends and they haven’t become tier 3 programs.

Syracuse won’t be recruiting like Kentucky or Duke but we can recruit as a top 4 program.
Maybe having a 76 year old HC has something to do with our recruiting.
Put Mike Hopkins in there he will recruit.

Also you don’t even need to recruit like duke or Kentucky to be top 4 consistently in conference.

Alls I say is that fans can claim anything about what the attractiveness of the program is. The past few years recruiting has NOT been at even a tier 3 level much less tier 2. How many times since joining the ACC, has SU finished top 4 in the conference much less consistently. Again it can been claimed that the program is tier 2 level attractiveness for coaching but that hasn't been proven for over 40 years. Even assistants are in house products so their "quality" is a relatively unknown. I really would like SU to attract top recruits and the next coach but until it happens its only viewing the program through orange tinted glasses.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

I have lived in several areas of the country ranging from coast to coast. When asked about my original home many people instantly know about Syracuse basketball. While the city of Syracuse is a bit obscure to most I have met, they still know about Syracuse Basketball. The Big East Years and the Carrier Dome have embossed on many many people in this nation the image of a prominent and legendary sports program.
Syracuse Basketball will be fine as long as 25,000 to 33,000 fans find their way up to The Hill for Syracuse BB ! I also think a nod to ESPN is in order, as ESPN played such an important part in both the
evolution of the Big East, and hence Syracuse BB !
I am not worried about the future of the program. While I am not the biggest JB fan, I respect what he helped build. I think the SU BB program will survive the passing of the JB era, and continue to be one of the prominent BB programs in this nation, if the NCAA & the NBA do not destroy the goose that laid the golden egg first !
So, yes at least in my opinion the BB program is indeed legendary !

 

[DCUNITED13]

Who does not like a White Christmas. Listen, its the April May numbers that always bothered me. Let It Snow.

There's no doubt that winters can be difficult here, at times. But some opposing coaches exaggerate how bad our weather is.

View attachment 200719

 

[GonzoInMD]

Who does not like a White Christmas. Listen, its the April May numbers that always bothered me. Let It Snow.

The first year I lived in Denver, it snowed the weekend after Labor Day and the weekend before Memorial Day. At least the snow in Syracuse usually stays in its proper season. And Syracuse knows how to take care of snow, unlike when I lived in the DC area where the schools shut down over 2 inches of snow.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Alls I say is that fans can claim anything about what the attractiveness of the program is. The past few years recruiting has NOT been at even a tier 3 level much less tier 2. How many times since joining the ACC, has SU finished top 4 in the conference much less consistently. Again it can been claimed that the program is tier 2 level attractiveness for coaching but that hasn't been proven for over 40 years. Even assistants are in house products so their "quality" is a relatively unknown. I really would like SU to attract top recruits and the next coach but until it happens its only viewing the program through orange tinted glasses.

No it isn't. The people in the sport who do this stuff disagree with you.

And even at our worst we have been to 3 sweet 16's, a FF, and are still getting top 40 recruiting classes in the past 5-7 years. That is us at our WORST. This stuff averages out.

And I know people think Virginia is great, but they are winning games with recruits ranked lower than us in many cases.

 

[SBU72]

No it isn't. The people in the sport who do this stuff disagree with you.

And even at our worst we have been to 3 sweet 16's, a FF, and are still getting top 40 recruiting classes in the past 5-7 years. That is us at our WORST. This stuff averages out.

And I know people think Virginia is great, but they are winning games with recruits ranked lower than us in many cases.

My argument is not the effectiveness of the recruiting, the final results u point out are good, but is SU 2nd tier in attractiveness. I just say that if they are then the staff is not taking full advantage of it and if they are aren't taking advantage then there is no proof of being 2nd tier only opinion. The same can be said about searching for a new coach. Until the school actually attracts the highest level of coaching for the next coach, its only opinion.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My argument is not the effectiveness of the recruiting, the final results u point out are good, but is SU 2nd tier in attractiveness. I just say that if they are then the staff is not taking full advantage of it and if they are aren't taking advantage then there is no proof of being 2nd tier only opinion. The same can be said about searching for a new coach. Until the school actually attracts the highest level of coaching for the next coach, its only opinion.

Based on who we are involved with in 2022 and who we signed this year(Benny/Swider) and the guys we lost I am not that concerned about recruiting as others.

 

[SBU72]

Based on who we are involved with in 2022 and who we signed this year(Benny/Swider) and the guys we lost I am not that concerned about recruiting as others.

After seeing the recent articles I would like to agree with you, but again the proof is if they actually get them. If they are truly tier 2, then actually getting a good share of them shouldn't be a problem.