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[OttoMets]

Yeah...I’d say if anything he’s underrated. The guy averaged like 18 ppg on 60% shooting and was a strong defender. Maybe he couldn’t do as many things well as some of our other great guards/wings, but he was absolutely elite at what he did do well and he played to his strengths. Bottom line is he was extremely effective.

At 6'4"!

Maybe I'm biased, but again, this speaks to just how talented Stevie was. A lot of Syracuse players are short and can't shoot. Only a tiny handful overcome that to produce such numbers.

 

[realorange]

At 6'4"!

Maybe I'm biased, but again, this speaks to just how talented Stevie was. A lot of Syracuse players are short and can't shoot. Only a tiny handful overcome that to produce such numbers.

And it helped that he had a 44 inch vertical! As a bonus, he was also the smartest (best student) on the team.

 

[tbonezone]

twice voted second team all big east. (by the coaches not the SU fans) . awarded the VIC HANSON medal of excellence 2007 *. BIG EAST scholar athlete of the year 1990. i think he studied journalism.

* footnote . Thompson, a Syracuse alum, will be the 25th recipient of the award given annually for outstanding contributions to college basketball. In his four seasons with the Orange, 1986-1990, Thompson tallied 1,956 points, seventh best in school history, and played in a school record 144 games. The Orange qualified for the NCAA Championship Tournament in each of his four years.

 

[RF2044]

At 6'4"!

Maybe I'm biased, but again, this speaks to just how talented Stevie was. A lot of Syracuse players are short and can't shoot. Only a tiny handful overcome that to produce such numbers.

[and probably more like 6-1, really -- which makes his aerial forays even more impressive]

 

[RF2044]

You can criticize him for recency bias, but to me it seems most posters glorify the old days.

Yes, you can list the stars on the team and it sounds impressive - things like giving out career stats or NBA success for players like Pearl, DC, Seikaly, etc. It is impressive. But it doesn't tell the whole story either. Most of these top players weren't in the same class. Siekaly was a below average center for his first two and half years. Thompson is criminally overrated by Orange fans. And the rampant excusing of excusing poor FT shooting, like it's separate from the evaluation of the overall quality of the team is baffling. On the contrary, FT shooting should be used as an indicator of the overall strength of outs

In another 10 years the idea the story about the '12 team having the McD AA Rak on the bench and the first round draft pick of MCW as the fourth guard will grow more legendary to this generation.

Nonsense. DC was the #1 pick in the draft. Billy Owens was the #3 pick in the draft. Sherman Douglas broke the all time NCAA assists record--in three years. Those weren't just players, they were all time program greats. The talent / versatility of that group is not being overstated -- at all.

Glorifying the old days? More like setting the record straight.

 

[MSOrange]

You can criticize him for recency bias, but to me it seems most posters glorify the old days.

Yes, you can list the stars on the team and it sounds impressive - things like giving out career stats or NBA success for players like Pearl, DC, Seikaly, etc. It is impressive. But it doesn't tell the whole story either. Most of these top players weren't in the same class. Siekaly was a below average center for his first two and half years. Thompson is criminally overrated by Orange fans. And the rampant excusing of excusing poor FT shooting, like it's separate from the evaluation of the overall quality of the team is baffling. On the contrary, FT shooting should be used as an indicator of the overall strength of outs

In another 10 years the idea the story about the '12 team having the McD AA Rak on the bench and the first round draft pick of MCW as the fourth guard will grow more legendary to this generation.

Sarge, I like you but I have to say there is not much I agree with in this post. Seikaly may not have been his peak his first two years but he still averaged 8 ppg /6 rebs as a freshman and 10 ppg/8 rebs as a sophomore. There have been many seasons, we'd love to have that out of the center position.

Don't understand how you can consider Thompson criminally overrated. No he wasn't a good 3 point shooter or free throw shooter but he sure was efficient at what he did do if he was able to rack up over 1900 points with a 56% field percentage.

I do agree that free throw percentage really hurt those teams.

 

[tbonezone]

not that it means anything but for comparison HAK your all BE conference selections :
Andy Rautins (2nd team) , Brandon Triche (3rd team), Wes Johnson (1st team), Arinze Onuaku (x), Rick Jackson (2nd team) .
Derrick Coleman (1st team 3x, 3rd ), Sherman Douglas (1st team 3x), Billy Owens (1st team 2x), Stevie Thompson (2nd team 2x),
Dave Johnson (1st team,2nd team).
does give you some perspective as to how dominant they were in the league during their time on the hill. but times do change.

(footnote. arinze would end his career as syracuse 2nd all-time worst free throw shooter 39.48 %. sorry HH.)

 

[FrancoPizza]

Nonsense. DC was the #1 pick in the draft. Billy Owens was the #3 pick in the draft. Sherman Douglas broke the all time NCAA assists record--in three years. Those weren't just players, they were all time program greats. The talent / versatility of that group is not being overstated -- at all.

Glorifying the old days? More like setting the record straight.

Exactly. The only way you could compare the eras is if we had a simulator that could project an SU team with a senior MCW, a senior Fab Melo, and a senior Waiters. Or project win-loss records if DC and Owens left after their 1st year. The maturity gap between 18-19 year old freshmen and 22-year old seniors makes comparing across eras nonsensical.

 

[tbonezone]

wes,andy ,brandon, arinze and jax all played like 4 0r even 5 years ?

 

[sufandu]

been showing a lot of orange past few days. yesterday uconn and today the hoyas. feb 1989 on air right now.
derrick coleman, billy owens, stevie thompson, sherm douglas and dave johnson on the court together right now. most talented orange quintet ever to put 10 sneakers on the same court ? all were fantastic players .

Yeah, JB had the recruiting working like a machine at that point. I think the sanctions we had shortly after all of that really changed the trajectory of the program. Imagine if Jamal Mashburn and Jalen Rose had followed on the heels of Owens.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Sarge, I like you but I have to say there is not much I agree with in this post. Seikaly may not have been his peak his first two years but he still averaged 8 ppg /6 rebs as a freshman and 10 ppg/8 rebs as a sophomore. There have been many seasons, we'd love to have that out of the center position.

Don't understand how you can consider Thompson criminally overrated. No he wasn't a good 3 point shooter or free throw shooter but he sure was efficient at what he did do if he was able to rack up over 1900 points with a 56% field percentage.

I do agree that free throw percentage really hurt those teams.

MS - those number you are quoting for Seikaly are quite pedestrian. We're pretty much getting that out of our center combo now, and this team had been thought to be in the running for JB's worst ever. Fab was a legitimate stud, BE DPOY, and a first round pick.

The problem with Thompson is he was not a 3. At 6 foot he sucked at the back of the zone. Not that it mattered to much to those teams back then because D was pretty much an afterthought, a rest period before they got cranked up on the offensive side again.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

twice voted second team all big east. (by the coaches not the SU fans) . awarded the VIC HANSON medal of excellence 2007 *. BIG EAST scholar athlete of the year 1990. i think he studied journalism.

* footnote . Thompson, a Syracuse alum, will be the 25th recipient of the award given annually for outstanding contributions to college basketball. In his four seasons with the Orange, 1986-1990, Thompson tallied 1,956 points, seventh best in school history, and played in a school record 144 games. The Orange qualified for the NCAA Championship Tournament in each of his four years.

I think B Triche played more games.

 

[tbonezone]

At 6 foot he sucked at the back of the zone. Not that it mattered ...

cuz we played a lot of pressure the ball MTM ! and during that game at least he played out top a lot.
and 5 boards and 2 steals a game over 3 years. that's not sucks in capitals. played great defense !

 

[BuffOrange]

Why did that uber-talented 1989 team only go 10-6 in a relatively underwhelming Big East that year? Honestly curious, I was only 7 years old.

Good question and some good responses. I'm only slightly older & feel like this time period is the genesis behind the "JB just recruits & rolls the ball out" theory that my Father and lots of guys his age have. How did we get blown out by Uconn the following year in the BET is another thing I always wonder, looking at the rosters I have no idea.

Of course as I get older I've realized stuff happens and this era that felt like an eternity was actually a 4 year blip 88-91. Recruiting has never really been as good and we've had some great seasons but the underachieving label has stuck for a lot of casual/outside observers. I think I agree with Otto that 2010 JB was a better coach but also those teams were probably unlucky.

On a sidenote I've never been a "root for team that beat you" guy but I find it mildly annoying that Illinois team lost to freaking Michigan. We totally woulda been favored to win it all if we won that game right?

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Nonsense. DC was the #1 pick in the draft. Billy Owens was the #3 pick in the draft. Sherman Douglas broke the all time NCAA assists record--in three years. Those weren't just players, they were all time program greats. The talent / versatility of that group is not being overstated -- at all.

Glorifying the old days? More like setting the record straight.

I'm not arguing that those weren't good teams, I'm saying posters are selling the '12 squad short. Dion was #4, MCW was lottery, and Fab was a first rounder.

The old teams were exciting and somewhat easy to build up based on offensive stats, but they had their warts. Spaced out stars, very little depth, substitution out of foul necessity only.

The zone D seemed more designed to provide a rest and help keep the stars out of foul trouble as apposed to the weapon it has been in several of the recent years.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Good question and some good responses. I'm only slightly older & feel like this time period is the genesis behind the "JB just recruits & rolls the ball out" theory that my Father and lots of guys his age have. How did we get blown out by Uconn the following year in the BET is another thing I always wonder, looking at the rosters I have no idea.

Of course as I get older I've realized stuff happens and this era that felt like an eternity was actually a 4 year blip 88-91. Recruiting has never really been as good and we've had some great seasons but the underachieving label has stuck for a lot of casual/outside observers. I think I agree with Otto that 2010 JB was a better coach but also those teams were probably unlucky.

On a sidenote I've never been a "root for team that beat you" guy but I find it mildly annoying that Illinois team lost to freaking Michigan. We totally woulda been favored to win it all if we won that game right?

I think the "JB rolls the ball out" theory is only with the very old now. The NC and a couple of runs to the FF with lesser talent has discarded that for most.

I think recruiting had resurfaced to mega levels just prior to our second sanctions. We were even getting McD AA centers.

The hope is JB is putting together a third entry into the top team/era argument . This years underrated group is adding studs Carey and Bazley. With JB adding Buddy it sends a loud message that he is going to be here another 4 years. Should be a good run coming up.

 

[tbonezone]

well dion did make 3rd team ALL BE and 6th man/yr . fab and mcw never got the all conference honors. all good.
(tho michael carter williams shooting numbers (39.8fg/30.4 deep) were worse than stevie's (56/30.2).
derrick, billy and sherm all became consensus 1st and 2nd team all americans and stephen received honorable mention.
now i put to you earlier that there may have been better teams . open to debate. but that collection of talent sharing the court together against georgetown at USAIR was simply quite remarkable. 5 of our best ever on the court together. and yes we lost 61 -54.

 

[Shawn91111]

That '89 team gets my vote as the most talented [pound-for-pound] team in program history.

This

 

[SWC75]

I think the "JB rolls the ball out" theory is only with the very old now. The NC and a couple of runs to the FF with lesser talent has discarded that for most.

I think recruiting had resurfaced to mega levels just prior to our second sanctions. We were even getting McD AA centers.

The hope is JB is putting together a third entry into the top team/era argument . This years underrated group is adding studs Carey and Bazley. With JB adding Buddy it sends a loud message that he is going to be here another 4 years. Should be a good run coming up.

It would be the 4th era. Don't forget Louie and Bouie, when we went 100-18 in four years and rose as high as #2 in the country. I'm glad there is such an argument.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Damn. Stevie is going to be 5'7" by the end of this thread.

 

[Sherman20]

Why did that uber-talented 1989 team only go 10-6 in a relatively underwhelming Big East that year? Honestly curious, I was only 7 years old.

View attachment 116902

the Big East was not underwhelming that year. Gtown was great and Seton Hall made the national title game. Every team in the conference was solid. There was only 1 team with an overall losing record. The conference played a round robin schedule, so road losses were inevitable. This was at a time when most of the best players did at least 3 years of college before heading to the NBA. The talent in CBB was off the charts. There were some also chemistry issues on that SU team in the middle of that season that eventually got fixed.

 

[Sherman20]

Just curious--and I don't mean this in a disrespectful manner-- how old are you? Because the opinion you're expressing makes me guess that you weren't around to see the 1989 team.

That team made the elite 8, and came close to making the final four. They were the best TEAM we've had--not just a collection of talented, individual components--even if the record alone doesn't establish that. And that's a pretty poor barometer to base everything on, given how different the college game is now compared to what it was then, when you had stars staying 3 and sometimes all 4 years.

And I love the 2012 squad. And the 2010 squad.

But when you weren't around to see DC, you don't know what he was. Or how incredible Sherman Douglas was. Or how superlatively talented Billy Owens was. And how versatile that group was, and how well they did just about everything other than shoot threes. Holy smokes -- hard to believe that was nearly 30 years ago.

Exactly. Three of the guys on that 1989 team have their jerseys retired in the Dome. There are only 10 jerseys in SU history hanging in the rafters.

 

[Sherman20]

Good question and some good responses. I'm only slightly older & feel like this time period is the genesis behind the "JB just recruits & rolls the ball out" theory that my Father and lots of guys his age have. How did we get blown out by Uconn the following year in the BET is another thing I always wonder, looking at the rosters I have no idea.

Of course as I get older I've realized stuff happens and this era that felt like an eternity was actually a 4 year blip 88-91. Recruiting has never really been as good and we've had some great seasons but the underachieving label has stuck for a lot of casual/outside observers. I think I agree with Otto that 2010 JB was a better coach but also those teams were probably unlucky.

On a sidenote I've never been a "root for team that beat you" guy but I find it mildly annoying that Illinois team lost to freaking Michigan. We totally woulda been favored to win it all if we won that game right?

Yes, if we had gotten by Illinois, we would have won the title. We had beaten Seton Hall 2 or 3 times that season already, and we were flat out better than Michigan. Illinois was a bad matchup for us because they could match our athleticism. We were the better team, I think, but we lost that game in very close fashion—some missed free throws and failing to block out on a free throw attempt at the end. They had a bit of a home crowd advantage in the Midwest, and I believe Sherm was battling a nagging injury. For me, it’s still the most heartbreaking loss besides the 1987 title game.

 

[Eric15]

Exactly. Three of the guys on that 1989 team have their jerseys retired in the Dome. There are only 10 jerseys in SU history hanging in the rafters.

The 2003 team will have three retired jerseys once Melo, Warrick and GMac are all retired.

I'm just nowhere close to being convinced that the 1989 team (with it's poor outside shooting, no bench, poor free throwing, chemistry issues as you said, and 8 losses) was a better cohesive unit than 2003, 2010 or 2012.

I feel like you're being too dismissive of the 89 Michigan team, also. They had the best player in college basketball in Glen Rice, and a lot of other talented guys like Loy Vaught, Rumeal Robinson and Terry Mills.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Exactly. Three of the guys on that 1989 team have their jerseys retired in the Dome. There are only 10 jerseys in SU history hanging in the rafters.

The problem with using retired jerseys or career statistics is that it favors the old teams.

The prime time, extremely good, players on today's era teams will not be here 4 years. Fab, Dion, and McW are all very good players.