ESPN's David Hale ranked how he has ACC schools talent by position.

[sdhall01]

It’s not worth it. He is doing kayfabe supporting Shafer.
I get the people who like him because he was kind with time to them or gave them access.
His tenure was a mistake and thankfully we are rectifying that and are in a 3-4 year rebuild.

Yeah, but I need to spend my lunch doing SOMETHING.

 

[CousCuse]

Yeah, but I need to spend my lunch doing SOMETHING.

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I don't think discussing anything in a rational manner is a waste of time. Some people just can't emotionally handle a back and forth without becoming triggered.

 

[Dino2112]

I have np with pour ranking To quote Rick Flair "To be the man,You go to beat the man !"

And SS and Hunt at the time they made you want to believe !!!! but in the end was like waking up next to that chick you picked up at the bar last night . I'd like to think Dino is the shot we need to get rid of the VD she left you with.

 

[OttoMets]

SU was driving to take a commanding lead when Hunt got hurt against Nova, then the game went array. Shafer was committed to implementing an up tempo spread offense and he thought McD could do it. Did you think it would be a easy quick transition to an entirely new style of play? People lost their ship in the first couple of games, and were going all over those guys.

He hired an immature scrub, a fussy child who liked to quote the Bible and drop profanities on the record to journalists. A nitwit whose incompetence drove an actual professional (Pat Perles) out of the program. McDonald's hiring is indefensible.

 

[CousCuse]

He hired an immature scrub, a fussy child who liked to quote the Bible and drop profanities on the record to journalists. A nitwit whose incompetence drove an actual professional (Pat Perles) out of the program. McDonald's hiring is indefensible.

He got another good job though, didn't he. There are a myriad of crazy college football coaches, with all types of different psychosis, I don't think McD was an exception.

 

[ForCuseSake]

He got another good job though, didn't he. There are a myriad of crazy college football coaches, with all types of different psychosis, I don't think McD was an exception.

Another good job? He went from SEC WR coach to ACC OC to ACC WR coach.

I realize coaching career arcs are not always straight shots up the ladder but he’s exactly where he should be.

Far away from debilitating responsibilities like play calling so he no longer freezes up in the box.

Recruiting South Florida for a crappy academic institution so he doesn’t have to take as many risks on borderline recruits as he did at SU.

McFlockit has reached the height of his coaching career and would do well to stay a WR coach until he retires.

He and Pariani are the worst OCs the program has had in 35 years.

 

[CousCuse]

Another good job? He went from SEC WR coach to ACC OC to ACC WR coach.

I realize coaching career arcs are not always straight shots up the ladder but he’s exactly where he should be.

Far away from debilitating responsibilities like play calling so he no longer freezes up in the box.

Recruiting South Florida for a crappy academic institution so he doesn’t have to take as many risks on borderline recruits as he did at SU.

McFlockit has reached the height of his coaching career and would do well to stay a WR coach until he retires.

He and Pariani are the worst OCs the program has had in 35 years.

He made a mistake by taking the OC job at SU where they were going to try to transition to the spread. It's been difficult to accomplish much of anything having such talent disparities. If he had gotten the job at a g5 program that was already running a spread, he could have had a better chance at being successful. As far as how he came off as a person, people come from a lot of different back grounds.

 

[ForCuseSake]

He made a mistake by taking the OC job at SU where they were going to try to transition to the spread. It's been difficult to accomplish much of anything having such talent disparities. If he had gotten the job at a g5 program that was already running a spread, he could have had a better chance at being successful. As far as how he came off as a person, people come from a lot of different back grounds.

I mentioned nothing of how Georgie boy came off as a person.

All anyone needs to know is he was gagging on the headset when calling plays.

His idiotic clash with Perles aside, he literally choked at the biggest responsibility as an OC - play calling.

Shafer had no choice but to demote him. I know you like to take a few goofy positions on this board but don’t die on this hill.

He was the worst.

 

[Alsacs]

He made a mistake by taking the OC job at SU where they were going to try to transition to the spread. It's been difficult to accomplish much of anything having such talent disparities. If he had gotten the job at a g5 program that was already running a spread, he could have had a better chance at being successful. As far as how he came off as a person, people come from a lot of different back grounds.

You are awesome. Pure awesome.
Thank you for the daily troll jobs.
Also Wolfgang tell daddy we don’t miss him.

 

[MSOrange]

I mentioned nothing of how Georgie boy came off as a person.

All anyone needs to know is he was gagging on the headset when calling plays.

His idiotic clash with Perles aside, he literally choked at the biggest responsibility as an OC - play calling.

Shafer had no choice but to demote him. I know you like to take a few goofy positions on this board but don’t die on this hill.

He was the worst.

I'll admit I thought some of his quotes and interviews in the Post Standard were some of the least professional things I've ever read. But you're right - not even considering that. It doesn't matter what offense you are running, his job was to call the plays and he froze up like Cindy Brady on the quiz show.

 

[GoSU96]

He hired an immature scrub, a fussy child who liked to quote the Bible and drop profanities on the record to journalists. A nitwit whose incompetence drove an actual professional (Pat Perles) out of the program. McDonald's hiring is indefensible.

Stop talking about Kool Kid like that. You're just being mean.

 

[TheCusian]

He made a mistake by taking the OC job at SU where they were going to try to transition to the spread. It's been difficult to accomplish much of anything having such talent disparities. If he had gotten the job at a g5 program that was already running a spread, he could have had a better chance at being successful. As far as how he came off as a person, people come from a lot of different back grounds.

Give it up. He was a huge disaster. The talent wasn’t as bad as he made it look. You’re right that he shouldn’t have taken the job.

He threw his HC under the bus. Lots of people from different backgrounds learn how to be a professional.

Ug

 

[OttoMets]

...

Shafer had no choice but to demote him. I know you like to take a few goofy positions on this board but don’t die on this hill.

He was the worst.

This.

CousCous, I love that you stand up for your positions and manage to do it diplomatically. Seriously, that's cool of you. But no need to defend McDonald. He was, in fact, the worst.

 

[CousCuse]

There's an old saying, " If you don't have anything good to say, don'i say anything". I have have a hard time seeing the benefit of bashing ex-coaches, or ex-anything for that matter.

 

[PhatOrange]

He hired an immature scrub, a fussy child who liked to quote the Bible and drop profanities on the record to journalists. A nitwit whose incompetence drove an actual professional (Pat Perles) out of the program. McDonald's hiring is indefensible.

"whose incompetence drove an actual professional (Pat Perles) out of the program"

Would love to know the back story here.

I thought the OLine was good that 1 year under Perles and then he bolted...Shafer had to go hire Joe Adam. SMMFH

 

[OttoMets]

"whose incompetence drove an actual professional (Pat Perles) out of the program"

Would love to know the back story here.

I thought the OLine was good that 1 year under Perles and then Shafer hired Joe Adam. SMMFH

It's been so long and I've repeated it so many times that I can't remember if there was an actual news citation or this was just a board story from an insider. But my memory is that Perles went to Shafer and said "Thanks, but I can't work for this scatterbrain anymore" and took a Canadian or arena football job instead.

And then Joe Adam... I won't dump on him like I do McDonald because there's no evidence that he was a jackass, just a totally unqualified line coach. It really calls Shafer's judgment into question.

 

[elimunelson]

why are people so passionate about HATING Scott Shafer. Guy was wrong guy for the job but was he supposed to not take it. They had no choice but to hire him at the time. Blame Marrone for the exit, not the entrance. The program was just starting to ascend again and the university had no choice but to continue on the path.

The path ended in a fire which we all agree was because Shafer wasn't the right guy for the job. This isn't a Greg Robinson situation where the university had ample opportunities to hire the right guy or retain the guy who was the right guy and made the worst possible selection with the worst possible thought process.

I liked Scott Shafer. I know a few guys from URI who played for him and said he was a hard nosed SOB but fair to the end of the day. Wrong guy to lead SU. I hope he finds success.

 

[OttoMets]

why are people so passionate about HATING Scott Shafer. ...

I don't hate him or any other football coach. I don't even dislike him, and am happy to concede that he was personable, well-intentioned, and more or less decent. I wouldn't go out of my way to criticize him, but I took issue with a couple inaccurate statements and wanted to offer corrections. But if we're sorting out exactly what some of the Shafer gripes are:

1.) A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. The guy said so many silly, meatheaded things. It would've been cute if the team won, but it came across as childish because they were bad. Especially so because he's a visible rep for the brand of an institution of learning. Stuff like his Clemson sideline tirade and some of his weirder press conferences made Syracuse University look bad.

2.) The hiring decisions. I've said it before and I'll word it a little differently this time: 80-odd kids, some of whom had no chance in life but for football, come to SU because of its head football coach and it's his job to put them in the best possible position to succeed in life. Sometimes that's through academics (I wish it were more, but the greedy powers-that-be in college administrations don't care about that as much as I do), sometimes through networks, and once in awhile through professional football. Shafer, through his hires of obviously incompetent, unqualified people like McDonald and Adam, let kids in the last group down. That sounds harsh, but he did. People like Rob Trudo were on track for pro careers under Marrone and got the rug pulled out from under them when their instructors were replaced by amateurs. That's bad.

I also think that Shafer did his damnedest to instill his kids with a set of values that he believed in. That's admirable, terrific, really. Tim Lester is a human being who I have a lot of respect for. From what I heard from players, there were other similar individuals on staff. That's good. In a lot of ways, Shafer was a net positive in the lives of his kids. I just think his mistakes were so glaring that he could and should have done better. And I'd be a little more charitable toward him if not for the bizarre comments surrounding his firing and the cigar business after the game last September. I'm willing to believe that he's a good man and a pro, but come on, act like a grownup and show some class.

 

[ForCuseSake]

why are people so passionate about HATING Scott Shafer. Guy was wrong guy for the job but was he supposed to not take it. They had no choice but to hire him at the time. Blame Marrone for the exit, not the entrance. The program was just starting to ascend again and the university had no choice but to continue on the path.

The path ended in a fire which we all agree was because Shafer wasn't the right guy for the job. This isn't a Greg Robinson situation where the university had ample opportunities to hire the right guy or retain the guy who was the right guy and made the worst possible selection with the worst possible thought process.

I liked Scott Shafer. I know a few guys from URI who played for him and said he was a hard nosed SOB but fair to the end of the day. Wrong guy to lead SU. I hope he finds success.

Actually, the timing of Shafer’s hire was very similar to the Greg Robinson rush job.

SU idiotically fired P after a late December bowl loss. Gerg was officially hired Jan 11, 2005.

Marrone left late and Shafer was officially hired Jan 9, 2013.

Edit - SU actually had more time finding Robinson (P fired Dec 29) than they did replacing Dougie (Hired by Buffalo Jan 7).

Unfortunately for both Scott and Greg they are good men who were poor choices as head football coach at SU. Everything else is just noise.

I think the SS Defense League inspires a fair bit of the SS bashing. Primarily since they sometimes dump on our current coach as a reference point to defend Shafer’s tenure.

 

[TheCusian]

There's an old saying, " If you don't have anything good to say, don'i say anything". I have have a hard time seeing the benefit of bashing ex-coaches, or ex-anything for that matter.

It's not bashing if it's helpful in understanding our past mistakes and our current reality. Diagnoiss is always a part of the solution.

 

[TheCusian]

why are people so passionate about HATING Scott Shafer. Guy was wrong guy for the job but was he supposed to not take it. They had no choice but to hire him at the time. Blame Marrone for the exit, not the entrance. The program was just starting to ascend again and the university had no choice but to continue on the path.

The path ended in a fire which we all agree was because Shafer wasn't the right guy for the job. This isn't a Greg Robinson situation where the university had ample opportunities to hire the right guy or retain the guy who was the right guy and made the worst possible selection with the worst possible thought process.

I liked Scott Shafer. I know a few guys from URI who played for him and said he was a hard nosed SOB but fair to the end of the day. Wrong guy to lead SU. I hope he finds success.

Can't speak for everyone - but I went to bat for the guy here for a long time. He has a lot of admirable qualities and as a DC for FHCDM - was very good. I don't bash him now as a weird vendetta or something (though I'm not a fan of his cigar). It's important to look back and say "what went wrong" and "what didn't work about that HC" ... We have a tendency to just slap "good" and "bad" on HC without context. As with all history, there are differing opinions on this stuff. It's worth arguing about, to an extent.

 

[RF2044]

Ultimately. But right off the bat they laid that turd against Villanova. Then Maryland, then The Idiot Offensive Coordinator going crazy in the booth against Louisville. And so forth.

Shafer had problems with a full roster and he also struggled with injuries. He was not a good head coach (how "not good" he was I'll leave for others to decide) and he made things much worse with his indefensible hires. .

Great summary.

Shafer was a rush hire -- a guy who wasn't qualified, but who was promoted in lieu of conducting a more thorough candidate search ostensibly to maintain program continuity after our impressive bowl win against WVU.

Right, wrong, or indifferent--no judgement--Marrone then proceeded to pilfer the staff, so there was not much "continuity" to carry forward, and the entire purpose behind Gross hiring Shafer in the first place quickly went away. Shafer filled those vacancies with a bunch of his buddies and got the band back together -- some of who weren't qualified for their roles.

I was dead set against Shafer being the guy to replace Marrone -- and remember remarking at the time that his tenure would be defined by how the guy he hired to be his OC performed [there's a reason that McDonald was a career WR coach -- OC was a huge stretch role for him]. We all know how that turned out.

It was exciting when that staff overcame a poor start in year 1 and performed pretty well against peer programs to get back to a bowl, but they came crashing down to earth in year 2 when the Peter Principle exposed their limitations.

Great guy, I think he had a big heart, and he's a decent enough DC. But not everyone has the chops to be head coaching material, and Shafer was "Exhibit A" of that phenomenon.

 

[elimunelson]

Can't speak for everyone - but I went to bat for the guy here for a long time. He has a lot of admirable qualities and as a DC for FHCDM - was very good. I don't bash him now as a weird vendetta or something (though I'm not a fan of his cigar). It's important to look back and say "what went wrong" and "what didn't work about that HC" ... We have a tendency to just slap "good" and "bad" on HC without context. As with all history, there are differing opinions on this stuff. It's worth arguing about, to an extent.

Yeah I was more directing the distorted angst against ALSACS who seems offended by anyone bringing up any remote positives that Shafer had. He was a bad coach. I'm with everyone on that point but I get the hire at the time and i certainly got the firing at the time.

I give the university a pass on it as well b/c the trajectory was upwards when Marrone left. I have and will always disagree with the perception of the direction when Pasqualoni was fired. What we later learned was Pasqualoni was owed a few more years to see if he could work with Gross. It was such a haphazard firing for a guy who is the most successful HC in SU history win %/bowl games wise.

 

[Bayside44]

Oh to play that schedule. Doeren, Clawson, Addazio all in the beginning of their tenures, and a Maryland program that was a mess.

Dino has to play catch up with this side of the ACC. Shafer got to start at the same time. He just went in the other direction.

UMD started a TE at QB. OMG.

 

[orange_in_VA]

Yeah, I'd say it's different. Other than linebacker and Slayton, his defense was ENTIRELY turned over almost immediately.

Someone just pointed this out a couple days ago, but you are wrong. The depth chart that was just released is something like 10 Shafer recruits as 1st string players. Last year it was pretty much the entire 2 deep on both sides of the ball.