Euro 2020

[Orangezoo]

I recently picked up his PSG 4th kit (that pink and purple authentic Jordan kit is a thing of beauty… and I don’t like PSG). But for all he can do, and not judging the PK, I think he’s at least a touch overrated.

It's crazy how good Kante has been for Chelsea yet has been really ordinary this tourney for the French.

 

[creatorsgam]

It's crazy how good Kante has been for Chelsea yet has been really ordinary this tourney for the French.

Different gaffer, different system, different teammates… I posted earlier, international and club aren’t exactly mirror reflections.

 

[Orangezoo]

Different gaffer, different system, different teammates… I posted earlier, international and club aren’t exactly mirror reflections.

No doubt. It's been pretty night and day though. That said gotta put some of this on coaching.

 

[upperdeck]

how do al these power teams screw games up in one weekend.

 

[creatorsgam]

This ESPN studio is so low energy.
Between the host and Frenchmen, Tim Howard they are boring.
This an exciting match show some damn energy.

Now that my excitement has died down a bit, you bring up a good, larger point: ESPN’s pundits, although I do enjoy their analyses, are quite buttoned-up and dry.

 

[OrangeFoo]

He’s been there at times, but not often enough for United.

Conversely, Bruno Fernandes hasn’t influenced this tournament anywhere close to what he has done in the EPL, where he has been among the best since his arrival.

International and club really are different games.

Difference, at least with Fernandes, is Portugal is set up to play around Ronaldo and Fernandes has no clue what to do because I'm sure forcing the ball to one player goes against all of his instincts.

I think the issue with Pogba is that he is a tweener at the EPL level. He’s not defensive enough and doesn‘t have the workrate to be a destroyer and he’s not creative enough consistently to be a true 6. With France he has Kante to cover for him and he has time on the ball since most teams won’t press France too hard.

 

[DeGrozz]

Difference, at least with Fernandes, is Portugal is set up to play around Ronaldo and Fernandes has no clue what to do because I'm sure forcing the ball to one player goes against all of his instincts.

I think the issue with Pogba is that he is a tweener at the EPL level. He’s not defensive enough and doesn‘t have the workrate to be a destroyer and he’s not creative enough consistently to be a true 6. With France he has Kante to cover for him and he has time on the ball since most teams won’t press France too hard.

I think it's spot on with Pogba. You get more space and time on the ball in the international game. Defensive lines hold much deeper and most teams drop off and contain rather than pressure and try to force errors. You just don't have enough time to set up a complex and cohesive defensive unit to play as aggressively as they do at the club level for most international games/tournaments.

Interestingly enough, I think it's probably the same reason that Kante isn't standing out in this tournament the same way he does in club ball.

 

[creatorsgam]

Difference, at least with Fernandes, is Portugal is set up to play around Ronaldo and Fernandes has no clue what to do because I'm sure forcing the ball to one player goes against all of his instincts.

I think the issue with Pogba is that he is a tweener at the EPL level. He’s not defensive enough and doesn‘t have the workrate to be a destroyer and he’s not creative enough consistently to be a true 6. With France he has Kante to cover for him and he has time on the ball since most teams won’t press France too hard.

I think it's spot on with Pogba. You get more space and time on the ball in the international game. Defensive lines hold much deeper and most teams drop off and contain rather than pressure and try to force errors. You just don't have enough time to set up a complex and cohesive defensive unit to play as aggressively as they do at the club level for most international games/tournaments.

Interestingly enough, I think it's probably the same reason that Kante isn't standing out in this tournament the same way he does in club ball.

Great posts. Completely agree.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think it's spot on with Pogba. You get more space and time on the ball in the international game. Defensive lines hold much deeper and most teams drop off and contain rather than pressure and try to force errors. You just don't have enough time to set up a complex and cohesive defensive unit to play as aggressively as they do at the club level for most international games/tournaments.

Interestingly enough, I think it's probably the same reason that Kante isn't standing out in this tournament the same way he does in club ball.

Insightful point on Kante and the lack of pressing at the international level. One of my concerns with Berhalter is he is pushing a pretty intense press that will work against the minnows but not against legit teams. I doubt he’ll ever have time to put in a cohesive system.

 

[creatorsgam]

Defensive lines hold much deeper and most teams drop off and contain rather than pressure and try to force errors.

Spain traditionally holds a high line… and without the right players for the system, we all saw how that went today.

 

[DeGrozz]

Insightful point on Kante and the lack of pressing at the international level. One of my concerns with Berhalter is he is pushing a pretty intense press that will work against the minnows but not against legit teams. I doubt he’ll ever have time to put in a cohesive system.

It's funny you say that.

I had originally typed out a couple sentences on how I think this fits in with Dest's early struggles with his defensive responsibilities, but didn't want to hijack the thread.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Tremendous offensive player but he doesn’t even try to help defending.
He is the soccer equivalent of James Harden. Mbappe flops too much.
Mbappe should be subbed off when his team has a lead to defend their lead.
He needs to improve a little more all-around.

Interesting points on Mbappe. He seems like a great player, but he needs to add another level of intensity to his game if he wants to get to the Ronaldo/Messi levels. Also I'm so sick and tired of the sneering, disrespectful attitude that players bring to the arena... I thought it was just NBA players but Mbappe does it too. You don't see Messi or Ronaldo do that.

 

[OrangeFoo]

It's funny you say that.

I had originally typed out a couple sentences on how I think this fits in with Dest's early struggles with his defensive responsibilities, but didn't want to hijack the thread.

Oh right.. this isn't the USMNT thread. My bad... I forgot we have more than one soccer thread on this board. Now that's progress.

 

[DeGrozz]

Interesting points on Mbappe. He seems like a great player, but he needs to add another level of intensity to his game if he wants to get to the Ronaldo/Messi levels. Also I'm so sick and tired of the sneering, disrespectful attitude that players bring to the arena... I thought it was just NBA players but Mbappe does it too. You don't see Messi or Ronaldo do that.

Mbappe was better at 19 than Cristiano was at 22.

You don't judge a great white on how well it rides a bicycle. You don't judge the second greatest young talent ever on how they play a soft press.

 

[creatorsgam]

Mbappe was better at 19 than Cristiano was at 22.

You don't judge a great white on how well it rides a bicycle. You don't judge the second greatest young talent ever on how they play a soft press.

Plays in Ligue 1. Has the potential, but not quite apples and oranges here.

 

[DeGrozz]

Plays in Ligue 1. Has the potential, but not quite apples and oranges here.

That's an old school mentality.

Over a goal/game at 19 in a top-5 league, and still running that rate. Scorer in a World Cup Final -- two other game winners in a World Cup. 4X to 5X the number of UCL goals as CR7 at the same age.

It's not even close what those two have accomplished at this point in their career.

 

[creatorsgam]

That's an old school mentality.

Completely reasonable mentality. Nobody’s career should be defined at 19 or 22.

Domestic league and longevity mean something. Top 5 league is great, but there a big drop off from EPL/La Liga to Bundesliga/Serie A. Then Ligue 1… it isn’t a farmers league but the competition isn’t the same as the aforementioned. Playing week after week in England or Spain doesn’t compare.

He has compiled stats playing with a phenomenal surrounding cast, yet still no easy task. I love his talent and he should be crowned if he can live up to the hype… but he has work to do.

We’ve been a bit spoiled with Ronaldo/Messi. Those talents don’t just pop up but the expectations have been placed on him. Not fair for Kylian.

As a pure finisher? Haaland is better right now.

 

[DeGrozz]

Domestic league and longevity mean something. Top 5 league is great, but there a big drop off from EPL/La Liga to Bundesliga/Serie A. Then Ligue 1… it isn’t a farmers league but the competition isn’t the same as the aforementioned. Playing week after week in England or Spain doesn’t compare.

I'm not going to say I disagree with you about this, but I think that I judge leagues differently than you.

I think that you can say the top of each league probably ranks the way you put them. I also think the bottom of the EPL and La Liga are worse than the Bundesliga and Ligue 1.

I think watching the bottom half of the EPL is brutal compared to some of the other leagues around Europe and the EPL and La Liga are overrated based on the strength of the cream of the crop.

Either way, I don't want to hijack this thread. I also share your love for Haaland -- it'll just be weird/difficult to judge him amongst the all-timers when he'll only have a club career.

I enjoy your posts.

 

[creatorsgam]

I'm not going to say I disagree with you about this, but I think that I judge leagues differently than you.

I think that you can say the top of each league probably ranks the way you put them. I also think the bottom of the EPL and La Liga are worse than the Bundesliga and Ligue 1.

I think watching the bottom half of the EPL is brutal compared to some of the other leagues around Europe and the EPL and La Liga are overrated based on the strength of the cream of the crop.

Either way, I don't want to hijack this thread. I also share your love for Haaland -- it'll just be weird/difficult to judge him amongst the all-timers when he'll only have a club career.

I enjoy your posts.

Yeah well the joke is on me, because the “Kylian Mbappe isn’t quite as good as you say he is” take is a strange hill to die on.

Seems like he is looking for a move to Madrid. Liverpool also a player here? If he does there what he’s done at PSG, we will be watching and taking about him over the next decade as one of the greats.

 

[creatorsgam]

Waiting for the these team sheets to drop…

 

[creatorsgam]

Not many changes, as expected. Grealish starting on the bench for England and Gnabry not in Germany’s starting XI.

Leroy Sane also starts on the bench for Germany, which given his current form isn’t a surprise.

 

[CanadianSU]

Waiting for the these team sheets to drop…
View attachment 202888

I know right! I am anxious to see if we go for Sydorchuk or Stepanenko at CDM!

(Jk)

 

[creatorsgam]

I know right! I am anxious to see if we go for Sydorchuk or Stepanenko at CDM!

(Jk)

Hoping for another epic day of soccer. Both games!

 

[creatorsgam]

Able to get a few moments of the game with the sound off (for now). England seem a bit tight and have some nerves?

 

[creatorsgam]

England really picked it up after the quarter-hour mark.

At least I can watch the second half, and with volume. Streaming on my phone, but it’s better than nothing.