Even though I suspected this, it's still a kick in the boys

[Millhouse]

What were you expecting, 4 wide spread as the base offense?

what does anyone expect hackett to say? how many coaches install new offenses with senior QBs?

 

[JeremyCuse]

What were you expecting, 4 wide spread as the base offense?

How about an offense that can actually score a touchdown without a 19 play marathon that stalls inside the 10 and we have to kick a field goal. Or an offense that can actually put up 20+ points against BE opponents.

 

[JeremyCuse]

that definition of insanity is weird. It's so common that no one thinks about what a dopey cliche that is. Doing the same thing gives different results all the time, especially in sports.

you guys are completely stupid if you think Marrone is going run the same offense with hunt or broyld. They're spinning nassib's return as they should.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Hunt is still light years away and Brolyd isnt playing Quaterback here, so what were going to open the playbook up next year with a true Frosh QB who loses his top 2 WR? Do you really think the offense is somehow going to turn into Michigans once we get a mobile QB?

 

[Millhouse]

Hunt is still light years away and Brolyd isnt playing Quaterback here, so what were going to open the playbook up next year with a true Frosh QB who loses his top 2 WR? Do you really think the offense is somehow going to turn into Michigans once we get a mobile QB?

I said they will run a different offense.

I didn't say they'd run more plays. They might run less.

They might not turn into michigan's offense but they might run the QB much more, throw deep more, and throw fewer short passes if their next qb is mobile, throws a good deep ball but is too inexperienced to run a complicated short passing offense.

They are running an offense built around the things that Nassib can do well. Everyone yells that the offense isn't good enough. But that's because Nassib doesn't do enough things well.

Why in the hell would Marrone keep recruiting mobile qbs if his ideal QB is one that isn't a runner? The smart guys here think his ideal offense is built around a guy he inherited and not the guys he recruited.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I said they will run a different offense.

I didn't say they'd run more plays. They might run less.

They might not turn into michigan's offense but they might run the QB much more, throw deep more, and throw fewer short passes if their next qb is mobile, throws a good deep ball but is too inexperienced to run a complicated short passing offense.

They are running an offense built around the things that Nassib can do well. Everyone yells that the offense isn't good enough. But that's because Nassib doesn't do enough things well.

Why in the hell would Marrone keep recruiting mobile qbs if his ideal QB is one that isn't a runner? The smart guys here think his ideal offense is built around a guy he inherited and not the guys he recruited.

Your post makes a lot of sense and I agree some different plays would be called with a mobile QB but if Marrone feels hemmed in by Nassib why not bring in a JUCO by now or give Hunt some legitimate run in the preseason? Also even if what you say is true (which by the way I think it could be), there no reason we have to keep with the same odd bunch formations, TE drags, and 4 WR sets that include a RB, a FB and sometimes a TE split out in the formation. Nassib might not be able to do a lot of things well but at least give him 4 freeking WR's in a 4 WR set.

 

[GoSU96]

I think some of this article is coach speak BS. If you have read reports of people watching practice there has been some attempts at changing tempo. The offensive has caught the defense unprepared by rushing to the line a few times. Rhame and guys from Scout have respected Marrone's request to not disclose formations. So who knows if there have been any changes. Marrone holds everything close to the vest, I can't believe he would allow Hackett to discuss changes with ESPN Big East blogger.

There's not a whole lot they can run that we haven't seen in the past.

There will be the base 2 wide, 1 Tight, TB and either another TE or FB.

Then it's about trading out for personnel groupings. 2nd TE/FB for 3rd WR.

4 receiver sets with either 3 wide/1 Tight or 4 Wide.

The wrinkle this year is Broyld as a second RB instead of the FB as a split back when they go to the gun for the zone read series. I don't see him lining up as the TB in the I or as a single back when the QB is under center.

Broyld will be used pretty much like a wing back, which means he might line up anywhere.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Your post makes a lot of sense and I agree some different plays would be called with a mobile QB but if Marrone feels hemmed in by Nassib why not bring in a JUCO by now or give Hunt some legitimate run in the preseason? Also even if what you say is true (which by the way I think it could be), there no reason we have to keep with the same odd bunch formations, TE drags, and 4 WR sets that include a RB, a FB and sometimes a TE split out in the formation. Nassib might not be able to do a lot of things well but at least give him 4 freeking WR's in a 4 WR set.

That's the thing to me. The choices made with the offense can't all hinge on Nassib.

 

[Millhouse]

That's the thing to me. The choices made with the offense can't all hinge on Nassib.

why not?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What were you expecting, 4 wide spread as the base offense?

No, I wasn't expecting any change actually, either by scheme or production.

Doesn't mean I like hearing about it though.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

why not?

So, for one example, we're so underwhelmed by Nassib's ability that we kick instead of going for the TD with 6 inches to goal?

 

[Millhouse]

So, for one example, we're so underwhelmed by Nassib's ability that we kick instead of going for the TD with 6 inches to goal?

this thread is about the actual offensive philosophy.

if you want to change the subject of your own thread to choosing to kick instead of hand off, that's fine with me, i'll agree with you. but you're still changing the subject.

 

[Chip]

that definition of insanity is weird. It's so common that no one thinks about what a dopey cliche that is. Doing the same thing gives different results all the time, especially in sports.

you guys are completely stupid if you think Marrone is going run the same offense with hunt or broyld. They're spinning nassib's return as they should.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Depends on how you define the "same offense". All of the things that you would do with an athletic QB are already in this offense. We already have spread option in here, we ran it about 5-10 times last year so we obviously practice it. We throw deep all the time, or at least we send WRs deep all the time. We just don't complete any of them right now. Checkdowns to TE's and RB's will still be there, we just might not have to check down as much with a new QB. The fullback role is pretty much being phased out, I know we have Myles Davis but he was recruited as a LB and moved. Not like we're out there trying to find the next Rob Konrad.

Hackett and Marrone won't need to overhaul anything for a new QB. They'll just be doing more reps with other parts of their already installed offense.

 

[Millhouse]

Depends on how you define the "same offense". All of the things that you would do with an athletic QB are already in this offense. We already have spread option in here, we ran it about 5-10 times last year so we obviously practice it. We throw deep all the time, or at least we send WRs deep all the time. We just don't complete any of them right now. Checkdowns to TE's and RB's will still be there, we just might not have to check down as much with a new QB. The fullback role is pretty much being phased out, I know we have Myles Davis but he was recruited as a LB and moved. Not like we're out there trying to find the next Rob Konrad.

Hackett and Marrone won't need to overhaul anything for a new QB. They'll just be doing more reps with other parts of their already installed offense.

I don't like their kitchen sink approach. If you're not going to run something much, don't waste the time practicing it. Practice time is precious and there are big fixed costs to working on nassib read option. They're probably thinking ahead to 2013 by practicing it in 2011 and 2012. Very tough balance between white knuckling now, practicing efficiently for the current year while still keeping any eye on the future without having to scrap everything and starting over (wasting the younger players' time)

Explains why guys like Rodriguez say it and take a big bath in year one.

Marrone thought they needed to win immediately to get any talent. The downside of that is that in later years you'll have either spent players' time on an old offense or you'll stick with an offense longer than you might like.

 

[Rocco]

This offense can work. The players are an upgrade from last year and Ryan has yet another year to master the O. Bunch of pessimists. We haven't even seen one quarter yet! Give me a break.

 

[Chip]

I don't like their kitchen sink approach. If you're not going to run something much, don't waste the time practicing it. Practice time is precious and there are big fixed costs to working on nassib read option. They're probably thinking ahead to 2013 by practicing it in 2011 and 2012. Very tough balance between white knuckling now, practicing efficiently for the current year while still keeping any eye on the future without having to scrap everything and starting over (wasting the younger players' time)

Explains why guys like Rodriguez say it and take a big bath in year one.

Marrone thought they needed to win immediately to get any talent. The downside of that is that in later years you'll have either spent players' time on an old offense or you'll stick with an offense longer than you might like.

I don't disagree with any of that. The only silver lining is that since this stuff is in there, we shouldn't have to deal with a giant transition next year. So early on in a coach's tenure, that plan is a problem. But we got through it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

this thread is about the actual offensive philosophy.

if you want to change the subject of your own thread to choosing to kick instead of hand off, that's fine with me, i'll agree with you. but you're still changing the subject.

I'm suggesting that the decision to kick in that situation is part of the offensive philosophy. I'm not changing the subject at all.

I cannot buy that the formation choices, molasses ass tempo choice, personnel choices all occur because of Nassib. When Hackett was hired Marrone said they were of the same philosophical offensive mind. You really think that conversation started with "So hey, we can't do anything for the next couple of years that we really want because we have this unbelievably limited QB, so what do you think we should do in the meantime?" Really?

You've said coaches pick something and run with it and hope it works. That's why we threw the bubble screen all over year one. I think Marrone and Hackett are no different. Nassib will be done, and the offense isn't changing.

I really hope I'm wrong and we see something worth watching this year, but I don't think our zebras are changing their stripes.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm suggesting that the decision to kick in that situation is part of the offensive philosophy. I'm not changing the subject at all.

I cannot buy that the formation choices, molasses ass tempo choice, personnel choices all occur because of Nassib. When Hackett was hired Marrone said they were of the same philosophical offensive mind. You really think that conversation started with "So hey, we can't do anything for the next couple of years that we really want because we have this unbelievably limited QB, so what do you think we should do in the meantime?" Really?

You've said coaches pick something and run with it and hope it works. That's why we threw the bubble screen all over year one. I think Marrone and Hackett are no different. Nassib will be done, and the offense isn't changing.

I really hope I'm wrong and we see something worth watching this year, but I don't think our zebras are changing their stripes.

i really think that

 

[OttoinGrotto]

i really think that

We all have our own ways of coping I guess.

 

[CIL]

Uuuuugggggghhhhhhhhhh.

Hackett said that the offensive system will remain the same from the past couple of years, the unit will try to present more different formations this season to keep defenses honest. A lot of that is a result of having an experienced quarterback in Ryan Nassib, who is entering his third year as a starter and can read defenses much better.

Here's the rest - http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/id/35222/checking-in-with-syracuse-oc-nathaniel-hackett

So, basically, if what Hackett is saying is true, last year the goal was to be multiple, and this year the goal is to be multiple... er?

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

Don't you even start with the "Well, the one variable that hasn't changed is Nassib, maybe once we're relived of that burden Marrone will run the offense he really wants" crap, Millhouse.

The offense might not change. The tempo will. Northwestern is a "multiple offense" as well. We are headed in that direction.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The offense might not change. The tempo will. Northwestern is a "multiple offense" as well. We are headed in that direction.

Here's hoping.

 

[Jake]

My only comment here is that I would LIVID if they changed the offense this year with a 5th year QB. He's been in the system 3 years. Give him a chance to excell his senior year.

 

[Millhouse]

My only comment here is that I would LIVID if they changed the offense this year with a 5th year QB. He's been in the system 3 years. Give him a chance to excell his senior year.

well, if you happen to think the offense sucks, keeping it doesn't give him a chance to excel his senior year.

and who cares what's best for just him? the team is what matters.

 

[billsin01]

well, if you happen to think the offense sucks, keeping it doesn't give him a chance to excel his senior year.

and who cares what's best for just him? the team is what matters.

Here's what I don't get about saying "Nassib blows, not DM's fault":

1) Why hasn't anyone else gotten any snaps? I mean, if Nassib really stinks that bad how in the world does it not make sense for other kids to play at least some snaps (especially since the staff is open to this approach, obviously).

2) If Nassib's that bad and the backups are that much worse, then where has the JUCO qb help been? I know we were involved with Marve (the miami transfer) and maybe one other kid, but no one has arrived on campus. I mean, if you're stuck with an awful QB and you are well aware of just how important QBs are to offensive success, shouldn't you be making your way to every junior college campus in america?

3) If neither 1 nor 2 make sense, then why not Bailey as QB in the wildcat 75% of the time and recruiting someone like him to replace him when he's gone? This year it's Broyld. I mean you're mitigating risk by not throwing at all (as opposed to throwing quick slants and passes in the flat b/c your QB blows), you're getting your "best" players on the field and you're "protecting" your defense (which was I guess part of the goal last season). Seriously -- wildcat, triple option, wishbone ...

It just makes no sense to me that DM thinks Nassib is that incompetent but calmly runs him out there for every snap for three years.

 

[billsin01]

The offense might not change. The tempo will. Northwestern is a "multiple offense" as well. We are headed in that direction.

My only comments here, and these aren't directed specifically at CIL but just in general, is that "multiple" is not an offense. It just isn't. It is a way to describe every single offense ever developed that intended to use any sort of deception. I mean, every single team in FBS and FCS tries to be "multiple" enough to attack you in a variety of ways and "nimble" enough to attack you at wherever you have weaknesses defensively.

Sure, some offenses run most of the time and others pass. But they all try to be "multiple".

So I don't really care what offense we run, I suppose, I just worry that we seem to define ourselves by the following three terms: multiple, execution, no mistakes. The first term we covered, the second is fine to stress but, again, it's not an offense. The third is great but I wonder if we sometimes err on the side of being exceedingly cautious.

Overall -- just give me an identity. If you want to call the offense multiple, fine. I'll cringe when I hear it, but I'll live with it. But do something well. Period. That's it.

 

[Millhouse]

Here's what I don't get about saying "Nassib blows, not DM's fault":

1) Why hasn't anyone else gotten any snaps? I mean, if Nassib really stinks that bad how in the world does it not make sense for other kids to play at least some snaps (especially since the staff is open to this approach, obviously).

2) If Nassib's that bad and the backups are that much worse, then where has the JUCO qb help been? I know we were involved with Marve (the miami transfer) and maybe one other kid, but no one has arrived on campus. I mean, if you're stuck with an awful QB and you are well aware of just how important QBs are to offensive success, shouldn't you be making your way to every junior college campus in america?

3) If neither 1 nor 2 make sense, then why not Bailey as QB in the wildcat 75% of the time and recruiting someone like him to replace him when he's gone? This year it's Broyld. I mean you're mitigating risk by not throwing at all (as opposed to throwing quick slants and passes in the flat b/c your QB blows), you're getting your "best" players on the field and you're "protecting" your defense (which was I guess part of the goal last season). Seriously -- wildcat, triple option, wishbone ...

It just makes no sense to me that DM thinks Nassib is that incompetent but calmly runs him out there for every snap for three years.

loeb and kinder are worse. there aren't that many juco qbs and I think he wants to have a passing offense.