Every Four Years...

[bpo57]

Interesting framing. So Syracuse and JW, at the fans urging, signed Dino through the 2024 season. I read some articles today from when he signed. It would appear that there was a bigtime "fan movement " with the hashtag #pay Dino. So those of you that want Dino dumped this season, I think you are out of luck. Read Dick in Michigan's post in the coach or player thread, he is spot on in his inputs. Second, whether you think it should matter or not there is a very real financial impact of the buyout.

Good points. SU is not like an Auburn, T A&M or MIss State that will eat a contract at the drop of a hat.

 

[Entropic]

Emphatically agree 144%.

We need to take the same approach to Dino, that Duke (another program that had to dig out of a decades-long dumpster fire) did with coach Cutcliffe:

View attachment 189606

Coach Cutcliffe is highly regarded, and now an institution at Duke
In spite of 4 straight losing seasons, and then just getting to .500 in the 5th one.
(He’s also in the midst of what is likely going to be his 3rd losing season in the last 5. Duke fans aren’t brandishing pitchforks and torches like our “fans” are.)

Dino *could* be that for us, IF our AD allows him the time to do so.
He’s already had one breakout season, and did so MUCH faster than Cutcliffe did.

Why didn't we take that approach with Grob or Shafer then? They were on the cusp of turning things around too then. Grob just needed a couple more year and things would have been great. /s

 

[721Comstock]

Why didn't we take that approach with Grob or Shafer then? They were on the cusp of turning things around too then. Grob just needed a couple more year and things would have been great. /s

Because there was never any evidence of improvement with either.

Shafer was getting objectively worse as time went on

I’m sure you’re well aware.

Dino’s had positive signs all along:
VaTech upset.
Clemson upset.
10-3 season.

Yes, these last 2 seasons blow.
But at least he’s shown the ability to deliver those highlights - something GERG and FHCSMFS never did.

 

[Entropic]

Because there was never any evidence of improvement with either.

Shafer was getting objectively worse as time went on

I’m sure you’re well aware.

Dino’s had positive signs all along:
VaTech upset.
Clemson upset.
10-3 season.

Yes, these last 2 seasons blow.
But at least he’s shown the ability to deliver those highlights - something GERG and FHCSMFS never did.

Firstly I miss the FHCSMFS acronym. Secondly I thought he was a weak head coach and needed to go back to being a DC. Thirdly, playing devil's advocate here, Dinos biggest achievements were using Shafer's recruits. What has he done since those kids have moved on?

 

[TheCusian]

If you thought Marrone was awesome after he took us to a bowl game his 2nd year (weakest SoS, 2 FCS teams) but can’t seem to give Babers a smidge of a throwaway year in a pandemic where his best 2 (maybe more) players are out - I don’t know what to tell you

 

[Chip]

Why didn't we take that approach with Grob or Shafer then? They were on the cusp of turning things around too then. Grob just needed a couple more year and things would have been great. /s

They never got extensions because they never showed anything that deserved one.

Complicates the transition ($$$).

 

[qdawgg]

If you thought Marrone was awesome after he took us to a bowl game his 2nd year (weakest SoS, 2 FCS teams) but can’t seem to give Babers a smidge of a throwaway year in a pandemic where his best 2 (maybe more) players are out - I don’t know what to tell you

This is one of your favorite posts over the years. Your comparing apples and oranges which you usually harp on others for doing but love doing for some weird reason with Marrone/Babers comparison.

 

[TheCusian]

Firstly I miss the FHCSMFS acronym. Secondly I thought he was a weak head coach and needed to go back to being a DC. Thirdly, playing devil's advocate here, Dinos biggest achievements were using Shafer's recruits. What has he done since those kids have moved on?

I don’t understand this criticism? Are you saying he can’t recruit?

 

[OrangeDW]

Firstly I miss the FHCSMFS acronym. Secondly I thought he was a weak head coach and needed to go back to being a DC. Thirdly, playing devil's advocate here, Dinos biggest achievements were using Shafer's recruits. What has he done since those kids have moved on?

“Using”. Lol. As if they weren’t “his players” by year 3 of his tenure.

 

[TheCusian]

This is one of your favorite posts over the years. Your comparing apples and oranges which you usually harp on others for doing but love doing for some weird reason with Marrone/Babers comparison.

It happens to be true.

Context matters.

 

[dollarbill44]

There's a presidential election...

There's a leap year...

There's a Summer Olympic Games...

Syracuse goes coach shopping...

2004: The fans turned on Coach P after a 107-59-1 record.

2008: The guy who came after Coach P was sent packing.

2012: Marrone bailed on the program for his next dream job.

2015: Shafer was dismissed after 3 years.

2020: Dino is circling the drain right now. He got his 4 years plus one of Shafer's.

Who's the guy who gets fired in 2024?

*Bonus points if you can guess who gets fired in 2028?

Huh, I missed the Olympics?

 

[qdawgg]

It happens to be true.

Context matters.

Right, which is why it’s so confusing to me. They were both hired in to completely different situations yet you still bring Marrone up for some odd reason as if you need to use Marrone as an example to protect HCDB.

 

[Entropic]

I don’t understand this criticism? Are you saying he can’t recruit?

I guess that would be the assumption and the proof is in the pudding. However, I don't think Shafer would have won 10 games in 2018 with the same recruits because he couldn't develop players and offense was an after thought. So while they were Shafer recruits I think Dino got the most out of them with coaching and scheme.

I do take issue with Dinos recruiting but only because I expected more being as personable and passionate with the youth as he is. My bar is much higher than consistently being at the bottom of the conference.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Huh, I missed the Olympics?

Tokyo postponed until 2021.

Something about Godzilla.

 

[SUbear]

“Using”. Lol. As if they weren’t “his players” by year 3 of his tenure.

Thats not the question. Where are his players in years 4 and 5? He has had limited success, none of it with his own recruits. His teams are not solid in the fundamentals and are undisciplined. I do not know how much longer he will be coach, but I have lost faith that he is the guy that can sustain success going forward. I do hope I am proved totally wrong, but I doubt I will be.

 

[OrangeDW]

Thats not the question. Where are his players in years 4 and 5? He has had limited success, none of it with his own recruits. His teams are not solid in the fundamentals and are undisciplined. I do not know how much longer he will be coach, but I have lost faith that he is the guy that can sustain success going forward. I do hope I am proved totally wrong, but I doubt I will be.

it’s just such a weird argument and one that lets me know who has an agenda and who not to take seriously.

You can be seriously concerned with the direction of the program without making excuses for why he actually had the best season at SU in 17 years.

 

[Briancuse]

nope

So 4 losing seasons in 5 years and he's not even in trouble?

 

[Alsacs]

Babers shouldn’t be fired this year unless the team is completely done with this staff.

You don’t keep coaches just to keep them. Results dictate movement.
Marrone wasn’t fired.
Shafer and GRob didn’t deserve 3 and 4 years.

Syracuse football should be doing better there is no doubt about that.

 

[721Comstock]

Firstly I miss the FHCSMFS acronym. Secondly I thought he was a weak head coach and needed to go back to being a DC. Thirdly, playing devil's advocate here, Dinos biggest achievements were using Shafer's recruits. What has he done since those kids have moved on?

Well - FHCSMFS (you’re welcome) couldn’t manage a winning season with the players HE actually recruited.
(Which is why he got canned.)

But - it’s somehow a *negative* that Dino won 10 games with those same players??
mmmkay?
/ insert shrug emoji here.

 

[OrangeDW]

Babers shouldn’t be fired this year unless the team is completely done with this staff.

You don’t keep coaches just to keep them. Results dictate movement.
Marrone wasn’t fired.
Shafer and GRob didn’t deserve 3 and 4 years.

Syracuse football should be doing better there is no doubt about that.

He shouldn’t be fired this year no matter what. This season is stupid and scrubby anyway.

 

[Briancuse]

He shouldn’t be fired this year no matter what. This season is stupid and scrubby anyway.

I'll give him another year. I want 7 wins next year anything short of that and he has to go.

 

[Bulldog04]

Emphatically agree 144%.

We need to take the same approach to Dino, that Duke (another program that had to dig out of a decades-long dumpster fire) did with coach Cutcliffe:

View attachment 189606

Coach Cutcliffe is highly regarded, and now an institution at Duke
In spite of 4 straight losing seasons, and then just getting to .500 in the 5th one.
(He’s also in the midst of what is likely going to be his 3rd losing season in the last 5. Duke fans aren’t brandishing pitchforks and torches like our “fans” are.)

Dino *could* be that for us, IF our AD allows him the time to do so.
He’s already had one breakout season, and did so MUCH faster than Cutcliffe did.

There’s a difference. He is a quarterback guru. His reputation is highly regarded because of his work with the Mannings. He just had Daniel Jones go as a top 10 pick. It has nothing to do with what he has done with the program. Duke spends no money on football and why would they when basketball carries the torch there.

 

[OrangeDW]

I'll give him another year. I want 7 wins next year anything short of that and he has to go.

Why? For who? The next guy that you’ll all want to fire a few years later, lol?

 

[TheCusian]

Right, which is why it’s so confusing to me. They were both hired in to completely different situations yet you still bring Marrone up for some odd reason as if you need to use Marrone as an example to protect HCDB.

That’s what *you’re* doing, lol. The point is simple. You can judge results based on what the first Syracuse team you fell in love with or you can actually look at the circumstances and then judge them for the outcomes taking those things into account.

If you think a coach should be fired under these circumstances 2 years after taking the team to 10 wins (which we’d not had in 20+ years) you’re insane. Not even bringing the buyout into it.

(They were both brought in after epically bad hires, flailing recruiting, etc. They’ve both been the best we’ve had since P.)

 

[Briancuse]

There’s a difference. He is a quarterback guru. His reputation is highly regarded because of his work with the Mannings. He just had Daniel Jones go as a top 10 pick. It has nothing to do with what he has done with the program. Duke spends no money on football and why would they when basketball carries the torch there.

He's a terrific coach he should get into the hof for turning Jones into a top 10 pick he sucks.