Exhaustion

[albanycuse]

You are either blind, biased or oblivious. Or all 3.

Or sexy.


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[rrlbees]

Yes, Bee's remark was clearly directed at me and hinting that my experience and/or knowledge was limited to playing electronic games. If he meant different that that, he needs some writing practice. I responded in kind. My skin is plenty thick and I am not bothered by anything posted here, except I was annoyed at Bee's shot, especially since he offered nothing substantive in rebuttal. If you think saying "baloney" in response to someone's analysis is insulting, I suggest it is you, rather than I, that needs a thicker skin. And I couldn't care less if people here agree with my opinions. It's a basketball board, not an election.

Actually you are completely wrong here too. What I said to you, I quoted you. The xbox comment was in reply to another post which I forgot to quote and was made by my close dear friend Albany.

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[Orangezoo]

My entire point was that being tired is a very convenient excuse. We played with more force in the 6th OT...We weren't exhausted then? Tough teams play through it. You really think this team could be called tough? And then there are those that think JS was the key. Maybe he would have been a big difference, but odds are he is/was due to cool off. Nobody is shooting 70% for an extended time. He could just have easily gone 0-5 in the 2nd half. I prefer to discuss what did happen and why.

what exactly does toughness have to do with fatigue? the 6ot game was one game- i was comparing the bet title loss from that year to last night not the game. fatigue impacts mental and physical perseverance and the villes aggressive hands on d coupled with james on the bench was too much to overcome. I argue if the problem was toughness we would have bowed out vs pitt or gtown. louisville is deeper and older than cuse. They have more production from their interior players and their pressure is kryptonite for a tired team. Look at the first two matchups- we missed shots and lost 1 /2. Why didn't the cards pressure as much then?

 

[Orangezoo]

Guess I'll have to school you then. It isn't about starters vs subs. Its about how many minutes the players played. Siva/MCW about the same. Triche/Smith about the same. Dieng/Fair the same. As I recall, you can match up almost all the players that way within +/- 2 minutes. Is that too hard to understand? No single player played more than a player on the other team. Oh...and where did we talk about who had more firepower off the bench? I guess I missed that reading lesson...

how many minutes did siva play on wednesday.. oh wait he didn't play wednesday.. whoops..

 

[alphaorange]

what exactly does toughness have to do with fatigue? the 6ot game was one game- i was comparing the bet title loss from that year to last night not the game. fatigue impacts mental and physical perseverance and the villes aggressive hands on d coupled with james on the bench was too much to overcome. I argue if the problem was toughness we would have bowed out vs pitt or gtown. louisville is deeper and older than cuse. They have more production from their interior players and their pressure is kryptonite for a tired team. Look at the first two matchups- we missed shots and lost. Why didn't the cards pressure as much then?

And I would argue that lack of toughness made both of those games much closer than they should have ever been. We were very fortunate to win both of those games. We made just enough plays to overcome major meltdowns. GT was absolutely horrid play down the stretch. Exhausted? Or soft/careless?

 

[Orangezoo]

so ao- your saying a lack of toughness made those games closer - so then what propelled us to make plays to win those games? Was CJ overcoming a horrible shooting game to posterize porter a lucky break? you are not making sense .. the real problem is that facing 4 games in 4 days we really only have 2 decent ball handlers. We lack someone at the 3 spot being able to handle it or having a true backup pg. Its a major flaw which is why fatigue played such a role- it wasn't alone but is being undervalued in your assessment- i highly doubt you have ever experienced the equivalent to provide a knowledgeable comparison. If you have I am curious to know about it.

 

[swish7]

how many minutes did siva play on wednesday.. oh wait he didn't play wednesday.. whoops..

Silly excuse. Ville played one less game, but generally plays at a much higher level of intensity. We pounded Ville in the 1st half. If we were so exhausted, how could we do that? Why didn't they fold?

Cuse played one more game. So what?

We subbed Cooney more than usual, Triche got more rest than usual. That has to count for something.

These young men are at their peak.

Mental exhaustion kicked in before physical exhaustion did.

In the last 8, exhaustion became a factor. But the game was decided by then.

It's a no-accountability excuse.

 

[OttoMets]

i haven't been on the board much since the game, but this was very similar to the final in 09. We were up at halftime, not by as much, but 8 or 9, but we didn't have the legs in the second half. Lville's pressure wore us down

I'd say a better comparison would be the Michigan State game in 2000 (haven't read too many of these threads; have to think this has been said elsewhere). Other team made adjustments, a couple calls went against us, and we froze up.

Certainly we had tired guys, but they didn't look completely spent like they did in 2009. Thought they looked better, energy-wise, last night than they did against Georgetown. They just got flustered and completely melted down.

 

[Marsh01]

Silly excuse. Ville played one less game, but generally plays at a much higher level of intensity. We pounded Ville in the 1st half. If we were so exhausted, how could we do that? Why didn't they fold?

Cuse played one more game. So what?

We subbed Cooney more than usual, Triche got more rest than usual. That has to count for something.

These young men are at their peak.

Mental exhaustion kicked in before physical exhaustion did.

In the last 8, exhaustion became a factor. But the game was decided by then.

It's a no-accountability excuse.

playing Pitt-gtown and Louisville 3 in 3 certainly took an effect on this team. Mentally, physically whatever it was but they did look tired. Louisville played Villy and ND. Not exactly murders row.

It wasnt the reason we lost but to say it didnt have an effect on the game is silly.

 

[alphaorange]

playing Pitt-gtown and Louisville 3 in 3 certainly took an effect on this team. Mentally, physically whatever it was but they did look tired. Louisville played Villy and ND. Not exactly murders row.

It wasnt the reason we lost but to say it didnt have an effect on the game is silly.

Marsh, I think everyone agrees that it had an effect. I think what is being debated is the level.

 

[albanycuse]

Silly excuse. Ville played one less game, but generally plays at a much higher level of intensity. We pounded Ville in the 1st half. If we were so exhausted, how could we do that? Why didn't they fold?

Cuse played one more game. So what?

We subbed Cooney more than usual, Triche got more rest than usual. That has to count for something.

These young men are at their peak.

Mental exhaustion kicked in before physical exhaustion did.

In the last 8, exhaustion became a factor. But the game was decided by then.

It's a no-accountability excuse.

Exactly


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[Marsh01]

Marsh, I think everyone agrees that it had an effect. I think what is being debated is the level.

Gotcha. I know I am battling exhaustion and its having an effect on my postings. I need to sleep for a week.

 

[orange79]

Gotcha. I know I am battling exhaustion and its having an effect on my postings. I need to sleep for a week.

If you do that, you'll wake up just in time to discover our Sweet 16 matchup.

 

[Marsh01]

If you do that, you'll wake up just in time to discover our Sweet 16 matchup.

I made a very poor decision to run when I got home from NYC today. Paying for it right now!

 

[orange79]

I made a very poor decision to run when I got home from NYC today. Paying for it right now!

Gotta detox somehow.

 

[Marsh01]

Gotta detox somehow.

I had a beer an hour ago. It didnt go well.

 

[orange79]

I had a beer an hour ago. It didnt go well.

Sometimes the hair of the dog can really dog you.

 

[Orangezoo]

being at your physical peak doesn't make you bionic- fatigue is still key- especially when you lack depth at positions like pg- our two best ballhandlers are not as good as the two we lost last year- so cite toughness all you want - fatigued ballhandlers is a bad combo against pressure- as is your best weapon on the bench.. as is bad officiating as is.. no one is saying its all about fatigue either .. lets clear that up.. it played a bigger role than most think but of course it wasnt the only factor.

 

[alphaorange]

so ao- your saying a lack of toughness made those games closer - so then what propelled us to make plays to win those games? Was CJ overcoming a horrible shooting game to posterize porter a lucky break? you are not making sense .. the real problem is that facing 4 games in 4 days we really only have 2 decent ball handlers. We lack someone at the 3 spot being able to handle it or having a true backup pg. Its a major flaw which is why fatigue played such a role- it wasn't alone but is being undervalued in your assessment- i highly doubt you have ever experienced the equivalent to provide a knowledgeable comparison. If you have I am curious to know about it.

You're all over the place. CJ made a great play. He played that play with desire and determination. The rest of the team not so much. MCW continues to make bad decisions down the stretch of games. Triche...well I have no idea what is going on with him. I do know that I expect a Sr. with all the games he has played under his belt to be a steadying force, not a liability. We are a bad handling team at every position, but Fair/JS are not the biggest culprits, the guards are.

And while I never had the opportunity of playing 4 in 4 for a title, I understand the effects of fatigue very well. I also know that the fans use it as an excuse much more than any player or coach. To turn the question back at you, what experience do you have that would allow you to make an informed opinion as to the level of exhaustion the players felt?

 

[Orangezoo]

You're all over the place. CJ made a great play. He played that play with desire and determination. The rest of the team not so much. MCW continues to make bad decisions down the stretch of games. Triche...well I have no idea what is going on with him. I do know that I expect a Sr. with all the games he has played under his belt to be a steadying force, not a liability. We are a bad handling team at every position, but Fair/JS are not the biggest culprits, the guards are.

And while I never had the opportunity of playing 4 in 4 for a title, I understand the effects of fatigue very well. I also know that the fans use it as an excuse much more than any player or coach. To turn the question back at you, what experience do you have that would allow you to make an informed opinion as to the level of exhaustion the players felt?

im actually very much on the same path - but citing a lack of toughness as the reason we didnt walk away with the pitt and gtown games makes zero sense. as for experience- i have little other than experiencing something similar in aau soccer and playing six games in one day and being completely fatigued to the point of losing to a team who won every game vs playing an extra game like we did for losing one game before the final. the fatigue can make you weak - but that is no better example other than that its common sense what exhaustion does to you. what it comes down to is you are giving minimal pass to out guards for being tired in their 4th game where i am saying cut them a break as they would have been better if not playing their 4th in 4 days.. since there is no ability to prove one side or the other we land at disagreement with nowhere else to go.. lets just look forward to our seeding and moving forward.

 

[rrlbees]

We are a bad handling team at every position, but Fair/JS are not the biggest culprits, the guards are.

You're wrong there too. SU rarely, if ever, has a team where the forwards can't handle at all. Zip, nada, zero.


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[pearl31]

While I do agree fatigue was a factor, the fact that the collapse coincided perfectly with Southerland being removed from the game tells me it had to do more with that than anything else. removing him from the equation makes us a pretty mediocre team.

and yet we beat that same team, in their building, without having JS in uniform.

 

[alphaorange]

You're wrong there too. SU rarely, if ever, has a team where the forwards can't handle at all. Zip, nada, zero.

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In your eyes, maybe, and although these forwards are not what I would call good but they aren't the worst culprits. The guards are. Guards are the primary handlers on every team and this is the second worst SU team handling the ball I can remember. Ours can't handle pressure. My statement that the team handles badly is 100% correct. Since the guards handle more but do not handle it well at all, I'd say my post was right on and YOU are wrong. So outside of your post not being aimed at me, how else am I wrong? I mean besides having a different point of view from you?

 

[Orangezoo]

In your eyes, maybe, and although these forwards are not what I would call good but they aren't the worst culprits. The guards are. Guards are the primary handlers on every team and this is the second worst SU team handling the ball I can remember. Ours can't handle pressure. My statement that the team handles badly is 100% correct. Since the guards handle more but do not handle it well at all, I'd say my post was right on and YOU are wrong. So outside of your post not being aimed at me, how else am I wrong? I mean besides having a different point of view from you?

wow- have you watched js and cj handle the ball at all this year? do you remember kris joseph, ryan blackwell, josh pace, carmelo anthony, lawrence moten, john wallace.. should i go on? we have always had forwards as supplemental ball handlers .. always.. we dont have that this year.. it does make a difference and puts a lot more pressure on the guards - watch gtown and how they use porter , the ville and how they use blackshear and ware who are hybrid 2/3's.

 

[OttoMets]

In your eyes, maybe, and although these forwards are not what I would call good but they aren't the worst culprits. The guards are. Guards are the primary handlers on every team and this is the second worst SU team handling the ball I can remember. Ours can't handle pressure. My statement that the team handles badly is 100% correct. Since the guards handle more but do not handle it well at all, I'd say my post was right on and YOU are wrong. So outside of your post not being aimed at me, how else am I wrong? I mean besides having a different point of view from you?

It's both. It's rare (and problematic) that Fair and South can't help. We usually have a forward who can be counted on to bring the ball up.

But these two guards are also worse than usual. One is a poor decision-maker who's been careless with the ball for his whole career, the other is inexperienced and doesn't look like someone who's been dribbling against pressure for much of his basketball-playing life.