Expanded College Football Playoff coming

[Scooch]

During our salad days, we were a top 20 program with top 10 years every 10 years. I think this playoff allows us to dream big again and potentially have a seat at the big boy table every 10 years if things go right. I do think the one part of this which needs tweaking is how they determine home games vs neutral sites.

If top teams get a bye do they not get a home game? I feel like that's an odd consolation even with the bye. I feel like the bowls will have a major say on how they construct this but imagine having these playoff games at home fields till the final game ala Superbowl.

As I stated earlier in the thread, 12 works for me or 0 works for me. This allows for the upstart into the conversation now.

Agreed about us. I was thinking that, if a 12 team playoff had existed all along, since 1987 SU would have gone into the last couple weeks of the regular season with a shot at being included roughly 9 times. That includes the years where finished top 10-ish (1987, 88, 91, 92), years where we won the Big East but finished out the top 12 (1996, 97, 98), and the years where an additional late win might have allowed us to squeak in (2001, 2018).

If we can ever be decent again, 12 teams works incredibly well for SU.

 

[orangepassion]

I don't think we'll see our best players end up moving up *if* the team culture, coaching, etc are good. Clemson has 5 Sean Tuckers already (actually prob better, lol). But if one of those 5 Clemson RBs thinks they can start here with less competition - I think that happens more.

I think it will even out the talent on the whole. And we should be happy for that, even if it means we might see more churn on our own roster IMO

What you're saying is logical, but have seen guys gamble and try to move to a bigger name school and get beat out (See Newman, Jaime).

 

[TheCusian]

What you're saying is logical, but have seen guys gamble and try to move to a bigger name school and get beat out (See Newman, Jaime).

That’s a much shorter list than guys who’ve moved down

 

[orangepassion]

That’s a much shorter list than guys who’ve moved down

I'm sure the list is longer, but I agree with your premise.

 

[SWC75]

I'd be fine with 8. The P5 champs, the top ranked champion of the smaller conferences, and two wild cards. Quarter finals are home games for the higher seeds. Then for semi-finals and title game use the same rotation they do now.

give me an 8 team playoff, highest rated group of 5 team along with the seven highest rated Power 5 teams. I am not a fan of auto bids for the Power 5 unless you get rid of divisions in the ACC, SEC, BG10 and Pac12, then I might like it sorta kinda

8 with auto bids to the P5 champions and the highest rated G5 team could work: but how do we know that the P5 conferences will allow G5 that slot?

 

[Goin' Deep]

you want to have and end of season tournament or identify #1?
Football and basketball are very different sports when taking into account
the talent dispersion on the college level,

 

[OrangeXtreme]

68 teams out of 350 make March Madness. Roughly 20%.

17 teams out of 74 make the LAX tournament. Roughly 20%.

20% of 120 football teams = 24.

Be happy it's just 12. Don't give the NCAA any ideas.

 

[DMDMD]

I thought eight was enough because with the 5 P5 auto bids the conference championships are defacto playoff games, which means 10 P5 teams guaranteed with a “second chance” possible for up to 2.

 

[Hoo's That]

68 teams out of 350 make March Madness. Roughly 20%.

17 teams out of 74 make the LAX tournament. Roughly 20%.

20% of 120 football teams = 24.

Be happy it's just 12. Don't give the NCAA any ideas.

NCAA HQ isn't involved in this. D-1A football is not an NCAA championship sport. That's why this committee is deciding how many and who, After player eligibility and scheduling the right number of games have been determined, the NCAA is completely out of the D-1A picture.

Would they like it to be an NCAA championship sport? About as much as they would like to get even more TV money than basketball tournament rights get. Could that happen? Well, the odds are slim and none and Slim didn't come to work today.

 

[Eric15]

Point taken. But for the rest of us, we've got to run the table to have any chance, which means 1 loss and the rest of our games have no bearing on it.

I think it really depends on the schedule we play. If we had 1 regular season loss against a formidable schedule (i.e. similar to the kind of schedule we played in 2017 playing LSU and Miami) and then won the ACC title I see no reason why we wouldn't be right in the mix to make the playoff.

In 2018 with 2 losses prior to the Notre Dame game I believe we were 11th in the playoff rankings. You figure if we had beaten either Clemson or Pitt (which easily could have gone either way) we would have been say 6th or 7th and within striking distance.

Right now we are scheduling like Rocky in the beginning of Rocky 3 in order to rack up wins to make bowl games. If we ever get to the point where we feel like we're a playoff contender, we have to step up the difficulty.

 

[JeffCuse]

8! 8! 8! 8! 8!
Never should have been 16. Never should have been 2. Never should have been 4 or 12 or ANYTHING ELSE BUT 8! Everything is set up perfectly for. 8!

Correct

 

[Eric15]

God I hope no one who has ever advocated expanding the NCAA Tournament to 96 or 128 teams is in any way involved with this process.

 

[Hoo's That]

I think it really depends on the schedule we play. If we had 1 regular season loss against a formidable schedule (i.e. similar to the kind of schedule we played in 2017 playing LSU and Miami) and then won the ACC title I see no reason why we wouldn't be right in the mix to make the playoff.

In 2018 with 2 losses prior to the Notre Dame game I believe we were 11th in the playoff rankings. You figure if we had beaten either Clemson or Pitt (which easily could have gone either way) we would have been say 6th or 7th and within striking distance.

Right now we are scheduling like Rocky in the beginning of Rocky 3 in order to rack up wins to make bowl games. If we ever get to the point where we feel like we're a playoff contender, we have to step up the difficulty.

I've thought a bit about this and in the 4-team playoff I'm convinced they'd find some sort of excuse to take a "name" team over an SU- or UVa-type team that won the ACC Championship in that situation if they're not undefeated. A 6- or 8-team playoff should be a different story, but I still think a team like that would be outside the top 4.

 

[Stern]

So how I understand this 12 team playoff is this. And the more I read about it and learn about it the more I really dislike it (and yes I know I am in the minority). The current playoff structure is fine, if they wanted to make it 6 I could live with that. But 12 is just going to ruin the sport and change it for the worse.

1) No limit on how many schools a conference can get into the playoff (pencil in 3 SEC schools each year, some years 4). They will take up close to 1/3 of this tournament every year.

2) If you win your conference you still aren't guaranteed a spot in the playoff. So if a 3 loss team wins their conference in a down year for the conference overall they still may not be in the playoff. Seems like that may be a rare situation but it is possible.

3) Notre Dame can NEVER get a bye since they aren't in a conference. Look I hate ND as much as the next guy but that's BS. If this is a "true" playoff and they are a Top 4 team in the country they should get a BYE. Otherwise, this setup is a joke.

This playoff will change college football forever and I don't think for the better. A couple of side effects we will see are...

a) Within 2-3 years of this "NEW" playoff starting all of the secondary bowls will be gone and dead. Independence Bowl, Music City Bowl, Citrus Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Cheez-It Bowl, Sun Bowl, Holiday Bowl...etc. They have 0.0% chance of survival. Just a matter if they pull the plug in year 1 of this new playoff or if they wait and try it a year or two before pulling the plug. Like the NIT in college basketball, those bowls were an afterthought, to begin with, and now will just be cemented and branded as the "loser bracket" of college football. Plus those bowl sponsors will invest the money into the 12 team playoff where literally all of the eyeballs will be now. CAPITAL ONE Bowl Week will RIP. And those bowls can say that won't happen now, and blah blah blah. Easy to say a few years out, when the rubber meets the road the big money will back out of those games and all flood to now the numerous playoff games that are out there. In our current system of only 4 in the playoffs you can justify those games as "only the best of the best make the playoff and this is postseason play for everyone else". When you let 12 into the playoff, now your just the NIT and the losers bracket of games which will be ignored. Plus why would any company pay to advertise on the MUSIC CITY BOWL with 2 schools in a total loser bracket meaningless game now, when they can advertise in (for example) 6 seed Georgia vs 11 seed Michigan from Athens, GA in Round 1 of the playoff? Those round 1 games will take up all of the TV time slots on ESPN and what company in their right mind would invest any money or advertising in one of those bowls now? Those lesser bowls are DEAD!

b) The teams that will be in the playoff consistently (Ohio St, LSU, Bama, Oklahoma, Clemson...etc) the kids on those teams (all of them) have eyes on the NFL. Those schools could potentially end up playing 16, or 17 game seasons depending on how far they advance and what their seed is. Most of these kids with any type of future in the NFL are opting out of 1 bowl game now. Good luck getting all of them to "buy-in" to playing in multiple playoff games and risking millions. You will see coaches "sitting" their big-name players in the season as they will tell kids, I may need you in the playoffs so take off the next 2 weeks so you are still only playing 13 or 14 games total this season. Not sure how anyone can justify that as being "good for the sport".

c) For the schools who really aren't what you would call "contenders" to seriously make the playoffs in college football, I think it is going to hurt them the most. I mean by shortly after labor day most middle-of-the-pack schools will be eliminated from the playoff, and if the secondary bowls as mentioned above are gone (or say only a couple survive) and you have no chance to make those. Why as a fan would you go to a game? I think the attendance at those middle-of-the-pack schools could be drastically be damaged. At least now in the current set up fans of a lesser school know, hey we get to 6 wins we are going to a bowl somewhere, there is something to root for and an end goal with a reward of postseason play. Once you lose those lesser bowls, once you are all but out of the playoff...you could have 80% of the games on your schedule be meaningless. That will hurt attendance at a lot of schools and hurt their bottom line financially. Not to be a negative nancy, but if Syracuse doesn't make a bowl game in 2021 or 2022 you can make the case Syracuse has played in its last bowl game until they make the playoff sometime down the road, if and when that happens if ever.

d) The thought with this is that by inviting more teams/schools into the playoffs the good players will be more evenly distributed over time as better kids won't just run to the big schools and will go elsewhere knowing they still have a shot to win big or make the playoff. I find this thought hilarious as any high school kid who is a top recruit wants to make millions and go to the NFL...they will still run to Bama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio St, and Oklahoma as they are factories that send kids to the NFL consistently and make them millionaires. The new playoff format will not change recruiting one tiny bit.

Just my thoughts. I know I am probably in the minority on this on this message board with my opinion and most people want to see a larger playoff. I just think the side effects of this will make college football no longer special. We will see a lot more games in the regular season of big teams "resting players". In years where both Michigan-Ohio St, Auburn-Alabama, Alabama-LSU are both in the playoffs and by early November they are all but locked into a playoff spot no matter what, their regular-season games and outcomes almost don't matter. All people and fans will care about is who went further in the playoff and who won the rematch game in the playoff.

I understand this is great for the Big 6 bowls (Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Orange, Cotton, Peach) and it is good for the TV network (ESPN/ABC/DISNEY), and good for the SEC who will be sending 3 to 4 schools each year to the playoff.

Just not sure it's good for everyone else involved. But for folks who want to see Costal Carolina sneak in as a 12 seed and lose by 30 to 40 pts in Rd 1 to the 5 seed LSU...great, I guess!

 

[SWC75]

I've thought a bit about this and in the 4-team playoff I'm convinced they'd find some sort of excuse to take a "name" team over an SU- or UVa-type team that won the ACC Championship in that situation if they're not undefeated. A 6- or 8-team playoff should be a different story, but I still think a team like that would be outside the top 4.

If we'd beaten Clemson and Pitt in 2018 and then won the ACC title game to be 13-1 ACC champs, they would have taken Clemson and Notre Dame along with Alabama and Ohio State. With an 8 team playoff, we're in as ACC champions and Clemson and Notre Dame are in as wild cards. Bama and OSU are in as conference champs.

2018 College Football Rankings for Final Rankings | ESPN

 

[SWC75]

So how I understand this 12 team playoff is this. And the more I read about it and learn about it the more I really dislike it (and yes I know I am in the minority). The current playoff structure is fine, if they wanted to make it 6 I could live with that. But 12 is just going to ruin the sport and change it for the worse.

1) No limit on how many schools a conference can get into the playoff (pencil in 3 SEC schools each year, some years 4). They will take up close to 1/3 of this tournament every year.

2) If you win your conference you still aren't guaranteed a spot in the playoff. So if a 3 loss team wins their conference in a down year for the conference overall they still may not be in the playoff. Seems like that may be a rare situation but it is possible.

3) Notre Dame can NEVER get a bye since they aren't in a conference. Look I hate ND as much as the next guy but that's BS. If this is a "true" playoff and they are a Top 4 team in the country they should get a BYE. Otherwise, this setup is a joke.

This playoff will change college football forever and I don't think for the better. A couple of side effects we will see are...

a) Within 2-3 years of this "NEW" playoff starting all of the secondary bowls will be gone and dead. Independence Bowl, Music City Bowl, Citrus Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Cheez-It Bowl, Sun Bowl, Holiday Bowl...etc. They have 0.0% chance of survival. Just a matter if they pull the plug in year 1 of this new playoff or if they wait and try it a year or two before pulling the plug. Like the NIT in college basketball, those bowls were an afterthought, to begin with, and now will just be cemented and branded as the "loser bracket" of college football. Plus those bowl sponsors will invest the money into the 12 team playoff where literally all of the eyeballs will be now. CAPITAL ONE Bowl Week will RIP. And those bowls can say that won't happen now, and blah blah blah. Easy to say a few years out, when the rubber meets the road the big money will back out of those games and all flood to now the numerous playoff games that are out there. In our current system of only 4 in the playoffs you can justify those games as "only the best of the best make the playoff and this is postseason play for everyone else". When you let 12 into the playoff, now your just the NIT and the losers bracket of games which will be ignored. Plus why would any company pay to advertise on the MUSIC CITY BOWL with 2 schools in a total loser bracket meaningless game now, when they can advertise in (for example) 6 seed Georgia vs 11 seed Michigan from Athens, GA in Round 1 of the playoff? Those round 1 games will take up all of the TV time slots on ESPN and what company in their right mind would invest any money or advertising in one of those bowls now? Those lesser bowls are DEAD!

b) The teams that will be in the playoff consistently (Ohio St, LSU, Bama, Oklahoma, Clemson...etc) the kids on those teams (all of them) have eyes on the NFL. Those schools could potentially end up playing 16, or 17 game seasons depending on how far they advance and what their seed is. Most of these kids with any type of future in the NFL are opting out of 1 bowl game now. Good luck getting all of them to "buy-in" to playing in multiple playoff games and risking millions. You will see coaches "sitting" their big-name players in the season as they will tell kids, I may need you in the playoffs so take off the next 2 weeks so you are still only playing 13 or 14 games total this season. Not sure how anyone can justify that as being "good for the sport".

c) For the schools who really aren't what you would call "contenders" to seriously make the playoffs in college football, I think it is going to hurt them the most. I mean by shortly after labor day most middle-of-the-pack schools will be eliminated from the playoff, and if the secondary bowls as mentioned above are gone (or say only a couple survive) and you have no chance to make those. Why as a fan would you go to a game? I think the attendance at those middle-of-the-pack schools could be drastically be damaged. At least now in the current set up fans of a lesser school know, hey we get to 6 wins we are going to a bowl somewhere, there is something to root for and an end goal with a reward of postseason play. Once you lose those lesser bowls, once you are all but out of the playoff...you could have 80% of the games on your schedule be meaningless. That will hurt attendance at a lot of schools and hurt their bottom line financially. Not to be a negative nancy, but if Syracuse doesn't make a bowl game in 2021 or 2022 you can make the case Syracuse has played in its last bowl game until they make the playoff sometime down the road, if and when that happens if ever.

d) The thought with this is that by inviting more teams/schools into the playoffs the good players will be more evenly distributed over time as better kids won't just run to the big schools and will go elsewhere knowing they still have a shot to win big or make the playoff. I find this thought hilarious as any high school kid who is a top recruit wants to make millions and go to the NFL...they will still run to Bama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio St, and Oklahoma as they are factories that send kids to the NFL consistently and make them millionaires. The new playoff format will not change recruiting one tiny bit.

Just my thoughts. I know I am probably in the minority on this on this message board with my opinion and most people want to see a larger playoff. I just think the side effects of this will make college football no longer special. We will see a lot more games in the regular season of big teams "resting players". In years where both Michigan-Ohio St, Auburn-Alabama, Alabama-LSU are both in the playoffs and by early November they are all but locked into a playoff spot no matter what, their regular-season games and outcomes almost don't matter. All people and fans will care about is who went further in the playoff and who won the rematch game in the playoff.

I understand this is great for the Big 6 bowls (Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Orange, Cotton, Peach) and it is good for the TV network (ESPN/ABC/DISNEY), and good for the SEC who will be sending 3 to 4 schools each year to the playoff.

Just not sure it's good for everyone else involved. But for folks who want to see Costal Carolina sneak in as a 12 seed and lose by 30 to 40 pts in Rd 1 to the 5 seed LSU...great, I guess!

College football existed for decades without bowls, then just had the Rose Bowl, then went to 8-10 bowls games for decades and survived. I liked it when a bowl was a reward for a special season, not just for going 6-6. I never watch most of the bowl games unless SU in involved, they involve top teams or interesting player match-ups. But there are fewer of those these days. Now you get star players opting out of them to avoid injury, as the WVA QB did against us.

The lower tier bowls can give a program like SU a bit of leg up. But what did 2010, 2012, 2013 and 2018 ultimately do for us? It's TV programming but the ratings can't be much and the crowds, besides fans from the two schools aren't much either. Given a choice between saving these bowls and having a comprehensive playoff for the national championship that we might be in in a good year, I'll take the latter.

But I don't see what that choice has to be made. We went to a two team playoff and a four team playoff and those bowls are still there. An 8 team playoff would kill them? A 16 team playoff would kill them? They were in no way depending on being part of the national championship determination to survive anyway. And the preliminary rounds of the playoff could be held in December when there aren't any bowls with only the title game in the bowl season and that could be in a bowl. The teams that don't make the finals could still go to a bowl and have a chance to end their season with a victory.

I just don't see a problem here.

And regular season games have meaning even if they don't involve bowls or the national championship. isn't every SU game this year going to mean something to you? There are regional and conference rivalries, individual match-ups, the potential for an exciting game and you always want your team to do better.

 

[Hoo's That]

If we'd beaten Clemson and Pitt in 2018 and then won the ACC title game to be 13-1 ACC champs, they would have taken Clemson and Notre Dame along with Alabama and Ohio State. With an 8 team playoff, we're in as ACC champions and Clemson and Notre Dame are in as wild cards. Bama and OSU are in as conference champs.

2018 College Football Rankings for Final Rankings | ESPN

That's the kind of situation I was thinking of. An SU- or UVa-type team would have to be the only undefeated team in order to make the 4-team playoff (probably as #4).

 

[baggerbob]

That's the kind of situation I was thinking of. An SU- or UVa-type team would have to be the only undefeated team in order to make the 4-team playoff (probably as #4).

For people worried about the bowls as Steve said. I also grew up in the 60's graduated HS in 64. Back then there were few bowls which most everyone watched. Making a bowl was for having a good to great season. To make the playoffs fair for everyone. Use the bowls for the playoffs.
First round use 4 bowls, same for the Second round, then 2 bowls for the 3rd and 1 for the final. 11 bowls which would be sellouts, and watched on TV.

 

[SouthernCuse]

I really wanted the system to do something to break up the dominance of 4-6 teams in the playoff every year. Currently we have some of the best talent in CFB sitting on the bench at Alabama and Clemson, waiting to play.

8 teams accomplishes this fine. Why 12?
The way I heard it, the SEC wants 3, so we get 12, where they often get that situation, and stay dominant in terms of $$ coming in. Now, that might be BS, but the top SEC officials are pretty smug, think college football world revolves around them, and are greedy in a petty way. So it might not be true, but I don't disbelieve it..

 

[Eric15]

If we'd beaten Clemson and Pitt in 2018 and then won the ACC title game to be 13-1 ACC champs, they would have taken Clemson and Notre Dame along with Alabama and Ohio State.

SWC I think you're a voice of reason 99% of the time but I'm just not quite understanding this take.

The committee putting a 1-loss non-conference champion ahead of a 1-loss conference champion from the same conference, the latter of which beat the former, would be extremely unlikely in my opinion.

I don't buy into the "certain teams get preferential treatment" paranoia. Teams like Bama and Clemson are always in the mix because they're always great.

Now, if that conference champion has two losses, that changes the calculus a bit. 2016 Big Ten champ Penn State was behind 1-loss Ohio State who they beat. Mostly because Ohio State had extremely difficult wins on it's resume (at Oklahoma and at Wisconsin).

 

[SWC75]

SWC I think you're a voice of reason 99% of the time but I'm just not quite understanding this take.

The committee putting a 1-loss non-conference champion ahead of a 1-loss conference champion from the same conference, the latter of which beat the former, would be extremely unlikely in my opinion.

I don't buy into the "certain teams get preferential treatment" paranoia. Teams like Bama and Clemson are always in the mix because they're always great.

Now, if that conference champion has two losses, that changes the calculus a bit. 2016 Big Ten champ Penn State was behind 1-loss Ohio State who they beat. Mostly because Ohio State had extremely difficult wins on it's resume (at Oklahoma and at Wisconsin).

Clemson was great in 2018. And Notre Dame squashed us like a soda can.

So we'll have to 'agree to disagee' on that one.

 

[Stern]

College football existed for decades without bowls,

But the world has changed. The world existed for decades without TV's, smartphones and the internet too. In this landscape of college football this new playoff will further the divide of the have's and have-not's. Your just now adding more schools into the groups of "haves" and cementing some schools into the world of "have not" forever.

The schools that are in the playoff consistently and fighting for seeds and bye weeks and the schools that never have a chance. If your in the group of schools that never have a chance, their regular-season games and football programs will decline rapidly. Nobody will care about them on TV, you may say nobody cares about them now on TV. Well watch the few that do care go away and now its going to destroy that. There is going to be a ripple effect here that will change everything.

Football is a unique sport and I think this set-up will damage more than it helps. I mean even with 12 teams Bama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio St, Oklahoma, Georgia...those will be your schools still winning national titles. That isn't changing. I don't see the upside for the majority of schools not in that elite club.

 

[Stern]

And regular season games have meaning even if they don't involve bowls or the national championship. isn't every SU game this year going to mean something to you? There are regional and conference rivalries, individual match-ups, the potential for an exciting game and you always want your team to do better.

Whether those games are meaningful to "ME" or not isn't the question. It's whether they are meaningful to the general public and casual fan.

Everyone on this board will care, we get it. This board is a small minority of the overall SU football fan-base. If everyone else goes away because they stop caring, SU and programs like that are in big big trouble moving forward. For example by Sep 28th or so "IF" SU has 3 losses quick out of the gate, and are out of the playoff and there is no bowl game to still aim for, I'm not sure you can sell your casual fans on "WELL SU CAN STILL BEAT BC AND PITT AND WIN A REGIONAL RIVALARY THIS YEAR SO THAT WILL BE FUN." Good luck with that sales job to "Joe Fan" who isn't on this website every day or is just a casual SU sports fan in general.

 

[SWC75]

Whether those games are meaningful to "ME" or not isn't the question. It's whether they are meaningful to the general public and casual fan.

Everyone on this board will care, we get it. This board is a small minority of the overall SU football fan-base. If everyone else goes away because they stop caring, SU and programs like that are in big big trouble moving forward. For example by Sep 28th or so "IF" SU has 3 losses quick out of the gate, and are out of the playoff and there is no bowl game to still aim for, I'm not sure you can sell your casual fans on "WELL SU CAN STILL BEAT BC AND PITT AND WIN A REGIONAL RIVALARY THIS YEAR SO THAT WILL BE FUN." Good luck with that sales job to "Joe Fan" who isn't on this website every day or is just a casual SU sports fan in general.

But every team has fans like us and message boards like this. The success of a program isn't based on what casual fans elsewhere think. The subject was if the games have 'meaning' and to the fans that matter to the team, they do.

 

[SWC75]

But the world has changed. The world existed for decades without TV's, smartphones and the internet too. In this landscape of college football this new playoff will further the divide of the have's and have-not's. Your just now adding more schools into the groups of "haves" and cementing some schools into the world of "have not" forever.

The schools that are in the playoff consistently and fighting for seeds and bye weeks and the schools that never have a chance. If your in the group of schools that never have a chance, their regular-season games and football programs will decline rapidly. Nobody will care about them on TV, you may say nobody cares about them now on TV. Well watch the few that do care go away and now its going to destroy that. There is going to be a ripple effect here that will change everything.

Football is a unique sport and I think this set-up will damage more than it helps. I mean even with 12 teams Bama, LSU, Clemson, Ohio St, Oklahoma, Georgia...those will be your schools still winning national titles. That isn't changing. I don't see the upside for the majority of schools not in that elite club.

Then at worse an expanded playoff isn't going to change things - except that in an exceptional year, we might be in it.