Expect some beef

[Libero2]

You mean like Justin Pugh or Macky?

I also hate this automatic response. It's nice to have hope in the staff when they bring in a kid without other offers, but lets not act like every kid our staff (or others nationwide) bring in without another BCS offer means the kid is a future SU star. It's annoying and drives me crazy.

It's tantamount to a poster comparing any SU player we get with 4 stars (KJ Williams in this case) to a 4 star prospect we signed who bombed miserably. I may not know a specific name, but you know a diehard recruiter fan can list a handful off the top of their head.

All I ask for is a semblance of middle ground, optimism but some realism as well.

 

[retro44]

A member of the staff told me last spring we pulled in a few under the radar type players last year as in players that came from perennial losing programs where other teams feel didn't they needed to look there.

so there you go...even the staff uses that term.

was also told Batten is going to be a very good get by the time he leaves

 

[DCCuse]

Batten is my pick for best in this class when all is said and done. Was told that the staff compared him to Vernon Davis.

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[Dmcnabbrules]

Batten is my pick for best in this class when all is said and done. Was told that the staff compared him to Vernon Davis.

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I guess he is staying at TE then?

 

[Trueblue25]

I want Godfrey and Hendrix.

meow.

 

[RF2044]

I also hate this automatic response. It's nice to have hope in the staff when they bring in a kid without other offers, but lets not act like every kid our staff (or others nationwide) bring in without another BCS offer means the kid is a future SU star. It's annoying and drives me crazy.

It's tantamount to a poster comparing any SU player we get with 4 stars (KJ Williams in this case) to a 4 star prospect we signed who bombed miserably. I may not know a specific name, but you know a diehard recruiter fan can list a handful off the top of their head.

All I ask for is a semblance of middle ground, optimism but some realism as well.

"Realism" meaning what? Pessimism?

The fact of the matter is that football recruiting is an inexact science. We won't know how "good" this class is until 3-5 years down the road, when we'll be able to look back and quantify how good the players performed. I also believe [and have for a long time] that certain positions are more difficult to project than others. For example, a player with OL size should dominate against HS sized competition--does that translate to the next level, or is a guy getting by on size?

Ultimately, we have little choice but to trust the evaluation / judgement of the staff. At the end of the P and during the GRob era, people rightly became skeptical b/c the results were generally poor. Hence, getting an under the radar kid was not viewed with optimism. That changed under Marrone--with many of those kids panning out, hence why his staff began receiving more benefit of the doubt. We have no idea what this staff is capable of. I just know that they know a lot more about OL, DL, and every other position than any poster here, and I'm not worried about them identifying and offering prospects they believe are good system fits in July [my opinion would be different if it were happening in January / February].

 

[DCCuse]

Umm...yes

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[bnoro]

I want Godfrey and Hendrix.

meow.

We definitely aren't getting Hendrix. Most likely not getting Godfrey.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

All I ask for is a semblance of middle ground, optimism but some realism as well.

Madness.

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[Libero2]

"Realism" meaning what? Pessimism?

The fact of the matter is that football recruiting is an inexact science. We won't know how "good" this class is until 3-5 years down the road, when we'll be able to look back and quantify how good the players performed. I also believe [and have for a long time] that certain positions are more difficult to project than others. For example, a player with OL size should dominate against HS sized competition--does that translate to the next level, or is a guy getting by on size?

Ultimately, we have little choice but to trust the evaluation / judgement of the staff. At the end of the P and during the GRob era, people rightly became skeptical b/c the results were generally poor. Hence, getting an under the radar kid was not viewed with optimism. That changed under Marrone--with many of those kids panning out, hence why his staff began receiving more benefit of the doubt. We have no idea what this staff is capable of. I just know that they know a lot more about OL, DL, and every other position than any poster here, and I'm not worried about them identifying and offering prospects they believe are good system fits in July [my opinion would be different if it were happening in January / February].

Wow all I said is lets not pretend every single recruit we sign that has been offered by no one else in the country is in going to be a preseason all ACC pick in their senior year like Macky is this year. That's not being pessimistic that's just expecting reality.

 

[Libero2]

Madness.

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I know, I know asking for sanity from the masses is just asking for trouble...

 

[Antz201]

Where's the beef???


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[RF2044]

Wow all I said is lets not pretend every single recruit we sign that has been offered by no one else in the country is in going to be a preseason all ACC pick in their senior year like Macky is this year. That's not being pessimistic that's just expecting reality.

Who's pretending that?

It is unclear from the OP's post whether "under the radar" means that they are kids nobody is recruiting [per your post] or whether he meant names that haven't been discussed here on the forum. Let's see who they are before rushing to judgement either way.

 

[Faegan]

Madness.

 

[Libero2]

Who's pretending that?

It is unclear from the OP's post whether "under the radar" means that they are kids nobody is recruiting [per your post] or whether he meant names that haven't been discussed here on the forum. Let's see who they are before rushing to judgement either way.

I was talking about the persons initial response to the "guys that have no offers" comment where he immediately said "Like Justin Pugh or Macky" all I wanted was us to not immediately compare any kid we bring in without offers to some of the best talent we have ever had come through the school. Lord knows the majority DO NOT live up to those expectations. That's all I'm asking here.

 

[anglerman]

I was talking about the persons initial response to the "guys that have no offers" comment where he immediately said "Like Justin Pugh or Macky" all I wanted was us to not immediately compare any kid we bring in without offers to some of the best talent we have ever had come through the school. Lord knows the majority DO NOT live up to those expectations. That's all I'm asking here.

The same can be said for highly rated kids as well. Most of them haven't lived up to expectations. The only 4 star kid that SU has signed that's lived up to expectations is DC3.

 

[Frozen]

The same can be said for highly rated kids as well. Most of them haven't lived up to expectations. The only 4 star kid that SU has signed that's lived up to expectations is DC3.

What, you weren't impressed by Lavar Lobdell's one career touchdown catch?

 

[Libero2]

The same can be said for highly rated kids as well. Most of them haven't lived up to expectations. The only 4 star kid that SU has signed that's lived up to expectations is DC3.

That's my point I hate the second a kid signs the people who compare him to one spectrum or the other, he's either this under everyone else's radar who will become an SU all time great like a Pugh or a Macky, or he is a terrific prospect who will fail because Lobdell did. All I was asking for was people to just temper the comparisons to past players just based on an offer list.

 

[RF2044]

I was talking about the persons initial response to the "guys that have no offers" comment where he immediately said "Like Justin Pugh or Macky" all I wanted was us to not immediately compare any kid we bring in without offers to some of the best talent we have ever had come through the school. Lord knows the majority DO NOT live up to those expectations. That's all I'm asking here.

First of all, that wasn't the OP making those comments. It was someone mid-way through the thread putting their own interpretation about what what was meant by "under the radar."

Second, with the exception of Kyle Knapp, can you name the last HS offensive lineman we brought in who was rated a three star or higher? I can't [Trudo maybe--and who was the last one before that?]--and I follow recruiting pretty closely.

Which means that the profile of OL we've primarily recruited recently are two-stars or below. And players like Macky and Chibane in particular are good examples of players that other teams weren't recruiting who panned out and fit our system. Ditto Nick Robinson; the jury is still out on how he's going to perform, but he was a local / unrated kid who is now contending for a starting role in his third year in the program.

Citing those examples doesn't mean that every OL prospect we bring in will achieve what they have, nor does it mean that every unrated lineman is going to develop into a high draft pick like Pugh, but it is a legitimate point to raise given that this is the caliber of OL we've brought in the past few years.

That we are making these offers in July [as opposed to January] tells me a lot.

 

[phil77]

Second, with the exception of Kyle Knapp, can you name the last HS offensive lineman we brought in who was rated a three star or higher? I can't [Trudo maybe--and who was the last one before that?]--and I follow recruiting pretty closely.

Kendall Moore last year?

 

[RMH44]

I was talking about the persons initial response to the "guys that have no offers" comment where he immediately said "Like Justin Pugh or Macky" all I wanted was us to not immediately compare any kid we bring in without offers to some of the best talent we have ever had come through the school. Lord knows the majority DO NOT live up to those expectations. That's all I'm asking here.

In no way was I implying that these so-called "under-the radar" recruits will end-up as productive as JP or Macky. Simply stating that these two fit that description within the same time frame of their recruitment. Oh, by the way, most of the OL on our current (and past) roster also fit this description.

I'm really curious what your response would have been If I posted something like "must be moving on to the B-listers"?

 

[RF2044]

Kendall Moore last year?

You mean the guy playing tight end? I think we can cross him off of the list for now for the purposes of this discussion, until if / when he gets shifted to OL somewhere down the road.

 

[phil77]

You mean the guy playing tight end? I think we can cross him off of the list for now for the purposes of this discussion, until if / when he gets shifted to OL somewhere down the road.

He will not be playing TE. And is listed as an OL.
Kendall Moore OL 6-6 250 Fr. Chicago, IL / Neal F. Simeon

 

[Noexcuse]

Under the radar means kids we haven't been discussing to any great degree. That's how I'm interpreting it. Now lets get some commitments.

 

[BlackKnight76]

First of all, that wasn't the OP making those comments. It was someone mid-way through the thread putting their own interpretation about what what was meant by "under the radar."

Second, with the exception of Kyle Knapp, can you name the last HS offensive lineman we brought in who was rated a three star or higher? I can't [Trudo maybe--and who was the last one before that?]--and I follow recruiting pretty closely.

Which means that the profile of OL we've primarily recruited recently are two-stars or below. And players like Macky and Chibane in particular are good examples of players that other teams weren't recruiting who panned out and fit our system. Ditto Nick Robinson; the jury is still out on how he's going to perform, but he was a local / unrated kid who is now contending for a starting role in his third year in the program.

Citing those examples doesn't mean that every OL prospect we bring in will achieve what they have, nor does it mean that every unrated lineman is going to develop into a high draft pick like Pugh, but it is a legitimate point to raise given that this is the caliber of OL we've brought in the past few years.

That we are making these offers in July [as opposed to January] tells me a lot.

Jon Burton was 3 on ESPN. Alex Hayes was 3 on ESPN/247. John Miller had 3 from Rivals/ESPN. Kendall Moore had 3 from everyone. Jason Emerich got 3 from Scout/ESPN/247.