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FBI Hoops Trial starting

Hoo's That

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So NCAA won't even start their investigation until the FBI legal actions are complete? No clearer incident of egregious violations that I can recall and any sanctions won't be levied likely for years. And the fact that most of the accused institutions are state supported screams lawsuits questioning standing if sanctions are imposed as I would think any coaches found guilty of collusion or players who took bags won't be around any longer.
They won't start until all the trials are over. The evidence will be released once everything is done.

Being a state school won't help them one iota. There's too much evidence of wrongdoing for the states' to want to be involved. They might argue over the UNC-type crap, but this is way past that and the Feds have tapes.
 

jgeorge322

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They won't start until all the trials are over. The evidence will be released once everything is done.

Being a state school won't help them one iota. There's too much evidence of wrongdoing for the states' to want to be involved. They might argue over the UNC-type crap, but this is way past that and the Feds have tapes.
the feds already released some of the wire taps and evidence from the first trial, so again, not 100% accurate.

honestly, whats your source about when the ncaa investigation start? or, are you just posting what you think will happen?

hopefully, the investigation has already begun. there is no need to wait. the parties should be subjected to interviews immediately so they can't form their stories later. if they get caught lying, thats a ncaa infraction.
 

Hoo's That

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the feds already released some of the wire taps and evidence from the first trial, so again, not 100% accurate.

honestly, whats your source about when the ncaa investigation start? or, are you just posting what you think will happen?

hopefully, the investigation has already begun. there is no need to wait. the parties should be subjected to interviews immediately so they can't form their stories later. if they get caught lying, thats a ncaa infraction.
I'm posting what I think will happen. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if preliminary work has started. Stuff used in the trial is "released" in that it's been discussed in the press. When I talk about release, I'm talking about formal copies of the materials the Feds have being turned over to the NCAA, either through FOIA or the NCAA's obtaining copies of the trial materials through the courts system. They can't use the qutotation of the what was said over wiretap cited in the Louisville Courier-Journal as evidence. They can, however, use the official copy of the wiretap transcript.

They need to have an airtight case because as everyone here points out, "the state governments are going to fight them to the death."
 

pfister1

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the feds already released some of the wire taps and evidence from the first trial, so again, not 100% accurate.

honestly, whats your source about when the ncaa investigation start? or, are you just posting what you think will happen?

hopefully, the investigation has already begun. there is no need to wait. the parties should be subjected to interviews immediately so they can't form their stories later. if they get caught lying, thats a ncaa infraction.

I think common sense tells you that the investigation won't begin until the trials are done.

1. People that are potential targets of the criminal investigation are not going to give interviews to NCAA investigators, it would be stupid to do so.
2. The federal prosecutors have a greater ability to compel testimony and obtain evidence than do NCAA investigators. NCAA investigators can't even seem to compel testimony from people employed at NCAA members institutions, much less people on the outside or on the fringe such as family members of recruits/players, AAU coaches, boosters and shoe company employees.
3. Why would you conduct an investigation now on partial information and risk being embarassed by the results of the criminal investigation which will be more comprehensive.
4. What is the NCAA's rush? I know fans are anxious to see action, but what does the NCAA gain by rushing to a result, especially if the cheating is anywhere near as pervasive as alleged.
 

Consigliere

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They won't start until all the trials are over. The evidence will be released once everything is done.

Being a state school won't help them one iota. There's too much evidence of wrongdoing for the states' to want to be involved. They might argue over the UNC-type crap, but this is way past that and the Feds have tapes.
Didn't stop Penn State......
 

Consigliere

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I think common sense tells you that the investigation won't begin until the trials are done.

4. What is the NCAA's rush? I know fans are anxious to see action, but what does the NCAA gain by rushing to a result, especially if the cheating is anywhere near as pervasive as alleged.
Not exactly a "rush" but the longer it takes to levy sanctions, the less relevant any penalties are on those who are affected by those penalties.
 

jgeorge322

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I think common sense tells you that the investigation won't begin until the trials are done.

1. People that are potential targets of the criminal investigation are not going to give interviews to NCAA investigators, it would be stupid to do so.
2. The federal prosecutors have a greater ability to compel testimony and obtain evidence than do NCAA investigators. NCAA investigators can't even seem to compel testimony from people employed at NCAA members institutions, much less people on the outside or on the fringe such as family members of recruits/players, AAU coaches, boosters and shoe company employees.
3. Why would you conduct an investigation now on partial information and risk being embarassed by the results of the criminal investigation which will be more comprehensive.
4. What is the NCAA's rush? I know fans are anxious to see action, but what does the NCAA gain by rushing to a result, especially if the cheating is anywhere near as pervasive as alleged.
here are my responses.

1. i doubt the criminal defendants will ever give interviews. EVER.
2. i said start the investigation. not conclude it. obviously, it won't conclude until after. do you recall how long the su investigation took?
3. again, i said start the investigation. they can interview people like sean miller. if he lies about something, those are additional infractions. kind of like a FINRA or PCAOB investigation. those run parallel to criminal investigations. why can't the NCAAs?
4. no one said rush. i said start it. your entire post seemingly is based on the notion that someone is suggesting conducting and completing the investigation/levying sanctions/etc prior to the criminal trials ending. thats not what im saying.
 
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realorange

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If I remember correctly, the FBI told the NCAA to keep out of the investigation until they were done.

Probably the NCAA will say they want to do their own investigation to let things drag out to the point their pets will have to chance to find "reasons" why they are still pure.
 

pfister1

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here are my responses.

1. i doubt the criminal defendants will ever give interviews. EVER.
2. i said start the investigation. not conclude it. obviously, it won't conclude until after. do you recall how long the su investigation took?
3. again, i said start the investigation. they can interview people like sean miller. if he lies about something, those are additional infractions. kind of like a FINRA or PCAOB investigation. those run parallel to criminal investigations. why can't the NCAAs?
4. no one said rush. i said start it. your entire post seemingly is based on the notion that someone is suggesting conducting and completing the investigation/levying sanctions/etc prior to the criminal trials ending. thats not what im saying.

The criminal defendants certainly won't give interviews before the charges against them have been resolved. However, they may end up giving testimony under oath at trial in either in their own defense or against others as a condition of a plea.

If I am Sean Miller, I am not giving an interview to anyone until after the Book Richardson prosecution has concluded. If Book goes from actively defending against criminal charges to entering a plea and becoming a cooperating witiness, Sean Miller's position in all of this may change. I suspect Book doesn't believe that Miller had no idea what Book was up to.

I also agree with you that there is no harm in starting an investigation. I just think people are acting like the NCAA is going to come to some conclusions or take action now that the first round of the Adidas trials are over, and I don't think we'll see anything come out of this until they are reasonably sure they understand all the shoes that are likely to drop as a result of whatever criminal prosecutions take place.
 

jgeorge322

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The criminal defendants certainly won't give interviews before the charges against them have been resolved. However, they may end up giving testimony under oath at trial in either in their own defense or against others as a condition of a plea.

If I am Sean Miller, I am not giving an interview to anyone until after the Book Richardson prosecution has concluded. If Book goes from actively defending against criminal charges to entering a plea and becoming a cooperating witiness, Sean Miller's position in all of this may change. I suspect Book doesn't believe that Miller had no idea what Book was up to.

I also agree with you that there is no harm in starting an investigation. I just think people are acting like the NCAA is going to come to some conclusions or take action now that the first round of the Adidas trials are over, and I don't think we'll see anything come out of this until they are reasonably sure they understand all the shoes that are likely to drop as a result of whatever criminal prosecutions take place.
i highly doubt the criminal defendants will ever talk to the ncaa. giving testimony is different but thats not an interview with the ncaa (and most criminal defendants don't usually testify anyways). obviously, if it happens, that should be considered in a ncaa investigation.

sean miller can't refuse to talk to the ncaa. thats kind of my point.

ncaa investigations take forever.
 
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Capt. Tuttle

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I think common sense tells you that the investigation won't begin until the trials are done.

1. People that are potential targets of the criminal investigation are not going to give interviews to NCAA investigators, it would be stupid to do so.
2. The federal prosecutors have a greater ability to compel testimony and obtain evidence than do NCAA investigators. NCAA investigators can't even seem to compel testimony from people employed at NCAA members institutions, much less people on the outside or on the fringe such as family members of recruits/players, AAU coaches, boosters and shoe company employees.
3. Why would you conduct an investigation now on partial information and risk being embarassed by the results of the criminal investigation which will be more comprehensive.
4. What is the NCAA's rush? I know fans are anxious to see action, but what does the NCAA gain by rushing to a result, especially if the cheating is anywhere near as pervasive as alleged.
I believe the NCAA can sanction schools and coaches for not cooperating and can take a negative infereo from the failure to do so.
 

joct

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Aaaand their done. The exhaustive investigation uncovered nothing with regard to Bill Self or Coach K.
Plus they found evidence that Adidas gave shoelaces and $10 to a student at a college who didn't play basketball, therefore it isn't a "basketball" problem.
 

jgeorge322

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Seems like big news but I haven’t seen much else. Any statement from the ncaa yet?

And why isn’t Mark Shwarz camped out in Lawrence or Arizona? It’s like Syracuse paid for everyone else’s crimes and now it's all good.
They dont comment on ongoing or prospective investigations. The smoke around kansas is just crazy... too hard to ignore.
 


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