Feelings of Hopelessness for this Program amidst the Gaslighting

[Cusefan0307]

The basketball roster today is made up mostly former 4 and 5 star players out of High School and 4 star transfers….

That's why I am saying one player isn't fixing this mess. We seem to make guys worse, not better. Bell is a prime example this year.

 

[RF2044]

An elite level player would be great, and maybe SU is getting one with the two top recruits coming in. But, SU needs ACC-level players across the board.

I turned on the Duke vs Clemson game last week. It looked like I was watching players from a different planet.

Look, Eddie is a solid ACC-level player. Starling...kind of. The rest have no business playing in the ACC.

Agreed. I watch a TON of college basketball. Every night, at every level, in every conference -- you can watch teams of players who get after it defensively and are coached well, and execute well.

You don't need SEC-caliber NIL coffers to field a competitive team. You don't need an entire team of top flight portal transfers just to have proper, fundamental execution.

Now, I also understand that there's a balance. To compete for a top 10 ranking / national championship, you need to be able to land good recruits. But you ALSO have to have the right foundation in place, which means quality systems on both sides of the ball, good coaching, a good foundation of system fits in place.

And then you SUPPLEMENT that strong foundational nucleus with situational portal transfers at key positions of need, or to add a talented player you can land to the mix even if you don't have a glaring positional need.

Having the strategy be: good out and recruit 5+ portal transfers every year is probably going to be prohibitively expensive, and won't enable us to overcome not having the right foundational footprint in place [as outlined above] for sustained success.

 

[Cusefan0307]

An elite level player would be great, and maybe SU is getting one with the two top recruits coming in. But, SU needs ACC-level players across the board.

I turned on the Duke vs Clemson game last week. It looked like I was watching players from a different planet.

Look, Eddie is a solid ACC-level player. Starling...kind of. The rest have no business playing in the ACC.

I wonder what Clemson basketball's NIL is. I can't imagine it being much more than ours. Outside of the Hunter brothers and Wiggins they don't have a lot of athleticism on that team. They play sound team ball and have for a couple of years now. They were able to overcome losing their best returning big to Georgia by getting Lakhin from Cincinnati who is a way better overall player than Lampkin.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Bell is a prime example this year.

Bell is a prime example of not being a complete basketball player and nothing else. In conference, if he converts one more missed 3 to a make, he's got the same 3P% as he did last season. He's actually scoring more per 100 possessions than he did last season. His D-rating in conference games: 117.2, 115.8, 117.1. His conference TRBs per 100poss since being a frosh starter: 6.1, 5.1, 3.8. His conference assists per 100 poss since being a frosh: 1.4, 1.3, 1.1.

 

[HyattsCuse]

Had to laugh when I heard Griff state the basketball program needs their Kyle McCord.

Wow, he actually said that? Would be interested to see the context that was said in.

McCord, for all is his abilities, would not have had his success with Brian Pariani as his OC.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Bell is a prime example of not being a complete basketball player and nothing else. In conference, if he converts one more missed 3 to a make, he's got the same 3P% as he did last season. He's actually scoring more per 100 possessions than he did last season. His D-rating in conference games: 117.2, 115.8, 117.1. His conference TRBs per 100poss since being a frosh starter: 6.1, 5.1, 3.8. His conference assists per 100 poss since being a frosh: 1.4, 1.3, 1.1.

You don't have to tell me any of that I already know. I was speaking mostly to his offensive performance which has completely cratered this year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Wow, he actually said that? Would be interested to see the context that was said in.

McCord, for all is his abilities, would not have had his success with Brian Pariani as his OC.

 

[AcAndAc]

This right here

Im tired our seasons hopes ending before christmas. Amazing we havent been to a tourney in 4 years now.

I give credit to the fans who have gone to games this season. This will be my first year since the dome opened where i wont go to a hoops game. Just no interest. I cant remember the last game i actually watched. Probably early january. This team isnt fun to watch, is so poorly coached and i dont even think we have hit rock bottom yet.

I hope Red can turn it around. I have my doubts. It needs to completely blown up and i dont see that happening next season.

I think that if this team had blown out the lesser OOC opponents and had the same record, then there would be more optimism. At that point, we could say we just don't have the talent yet. But when we get it, we will be much more competitive. But when this team was at full strength and not able to put away those opponents who definitely do not have OUR talent or NIL... that says it all.

 

[RF2044]

I think that if this team had blown out the lesser OOC opponents and had the same record, then there would be more optimism. At that point, we could say we just don't have the talent yet. But when we get it, we will be much more competitive. But when this team was at full strength and not able to put away those opponents who definitely do not have OUR talent or NIL... that says it all.

Agreed. If we were playing competitive basketball, didn't routinely look overmatched every time we play a decent opponent, weren't hapless defensively, and showed a quality offensive concept -- but we were losing close, competitive games because our personnel aren't optimized, I think everyone would be more patient.

Because it would signify that the coaching is good, we just need to get more horses.

Problem is, that's not what we're seeing. The issues were evident in game one of the OOC schedule, against Le Moyne -- a team we should have destroyed. And those issues in that game were a harbinger of how bad this year was going to go. KenPom doesn't lie.

And the 14+ point blowout losses continue to accumulate.

Which is why such a significant portion of the fanbase is distraught, disengaged, and / or frustrated with the product we're seeing. This isn't just a case of the coaching being solid, the systems being solid, but we need to get some better players.

The coaches look inept, we look clueless offensively, we look hapless defensively, and the coaches don't seem to have a great command of in-game X's and O's NOR substitution patterns.

 

[AcAndAc]

The coaches look inept, we look clueless offensively, we look hapless defensively, and the coaches don't seem to have a great command of in-game X's and O's NOR substitution patterns.

Other than those few things, its all looking good though.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The comments are funny. Several people said we need a Fran Brown and a Jeff Nixon too.

 

[kingtidge]

The comments are funny. Several people said we need a Fran Brown and a Jeff Nixon too.

Interesting.

McCord was 1-year wonder generational talent and lynchpin for a new coach, with new staff, and new culture.

 

[baggerbob]

Back in the early 2000s, I used to take my nieces and nephews to Syracuse games (1 game per kid) - that was something they would look forward to for MONTHS, talking about the game they would go to with me. Syracuse didn't win every game, but the team was consistently good and the crowd was always electric. Last year I had to negotiate with my kids (8 & 10) to go to the NC State game; even then they game was a thing they had to do with dad in order to get to do the stuff they'd actually enjoy. It wasn't quite a chore to be completed - but it was close. I didn't bother getting tickets this year.

If Syracuse had a sustained run of 2-3 good years that were at least Sweet Sixteen season - I could easily get my nieces and nephews to go to a game again. There is basically no chance my kids will ever be Syracuse basketball fans - other teams have filled that void. They might watch a game on TV once in while...that's about the max.

That sums up the issue - the longer Syracuse goes without making an NCAA tournament, the longer a sustained run of success needs to be to win back the fans that they can. Right now I think that's probably around 2-3 solidly winning seasons. And even at that - there's a growing generation of kids that have never seen a good Syracuse basketball team who are probably never going to be anything more than "watch on TV once in a while" fans.

Syracuse convinced themselves football fans would come back when the teams started winning again. Now they were so convinced that 16% are gone forever that installing seats in the Dome made sense because it was just eliminating benches that would always be empty anyway. This is going to go the same way, the university is going to be convinced fans will always come back and be shocked and totally unprepared when they don't. At least with football you can forgive them a little, they didn't know better. But after what happened with football, watching the same mentality being employed with basketball is unforgivable.

Unfortunately it's been 26 years since McNabb left and we have had 3 very good years in football. 2001, then 17 years until Eric in 2018, and now Fran in 2024. 1998 was the end of our last good run. The younger fans that had spending money at that time were in their 20's and 30's.
A lot of us were in our 40's and 50' .
So the majority of you base is late 40's to late 70's.
We missed out on the younger generation, and doing the same thing in basketball.

 

[Sherman20]

Agreed. But our basketball fanbase has always bucked the attendance trends. That’s what made the 30k per game such a newsworthy feat. I would posit our current decline in fanbase outpaces the general decline in all sports.

Sure. But I have to disagree with the poster who says it’ll be hard to get fans to come back. Fans are Hungering for a return to the glory days of old. When we start winning again, the fans will return. Look at St. John’s with Pitino this year. I’m still angry we didn’t hire him two years ago.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Sure. But I have to disagree with the poster who says it’ll be hard to get fans to come back. Fans are Hungering for a return to the glory days of old. When we start winning again, the fans will return. Look at St. John’s with Pitino this year. I’m still angry we didn’t hire him two years ago.

We were never hiring Pitino. I don’t understand why you guys let yourself even think it was a possibility.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I suspect Jesse Edwards leaving was a really pivotal moment in the program, for a couple reasons.

First, it took us from a situation where we would have had one of the best centers in the country and a really experienced player to having to shoehorn a talented guy into the spot. Maliq played well but that wasn't the ideal scenario. As I've mentioned in other threads, I think if Jesse was our center we make the tournament.

Second, I think him taking a deal from WFVU put blood in the water for portal sharks. Once that happened, we could not work from a position of strength. It was known that guys could be taken from us. That also meant that we could be leveraged (more or less how it seems to have gone down with Lampkin). It translated into a reputation as not being a serious player in the portal for the top guys.

There's an alternative timeline where Jesse stays, we make the tournament, maybe the program stays together better, and overall we're in a stronger position to be more enticing in the portal and we're not coming across as much like a wounded animal. That leads to a better roster this year, which is more forgiving of some of the learning on the job Red's clearly going through.

I'm not saying that fully gets us back to high level competitiveness, but it could be some effort to reverse some of the trends we've been watching for a decade now.

i agree with all of this...it really is about talent. i agree if edwards was there last year they make the tourney 100%...and this years roster would be much better...maliq likely stays imo...

reds been pretty good with recruiting but hes missed on some key guys/positions and getting those players would have made a major difference in both of reds years...its still on red to get those guys. but we have to see if he can put together a complete roster and how he does with it...to be sure about him. i think he makes the tourney with a good roster (and better assistants)

 

[tptcuse]

Sure. But I have to disagree with the poster who says it’ll be hard to get fans to come back. Fans are Hungering for a return to the glory days of old. When we start winning again, the fans will return. Look at St. John’s with Pitino this year. I’m still angry we didn’t hire him two years ago.

Sounds good in theory. However, practically it will take time. Even if we end up having a great season, the fans won’t really know that until January or February. Even then, cynicism kicks in much faster when the program has been as disappointing as we have been.

Hypothetical:
Let’s say we start 10-2. Then we play Duke and UNC and lose. Now we’re 10-4 and casual fans are underwhelmed. In the past, 10-4 would have been okay and our attendance would have been strong based on previous years’ successes. Moving forward, that will not be the case. We would need almost a Tyler Ennis year start to generate the beginnings of a return to previous attendance levels. And let’s face it, November and December are likely to be empty.