Feelings of Hopelessness for this Program amidst the Gaslighting

[RedtheGOB]

Here's my prediction on a crappy cold Monday in February. I expect we will have Autry next year with improved talent yet we will fall short of the tourney with the same ups and downs. Basically a repeat of last year, not good enough. Maybe even 20-22 wins, but who cares if we can't beat a single tourney team during the year.

I think JW, the donors, and alums will know by mid December if the coaching search is on. Don't forget we're playing in the NIL Players Era tourney in Vegas. A last place or bottom finish there will tell us what kind of season is coming. We'll see the portal talent and HS recruits and how they stack up against top tier teams very early. Autry doesn't get any more excuses to say they're figuring it out for 2 months of the season because we saw how that worked out this year.

While Autry is chasing the bubble they'll be out there looking for someone that fits the Fran Brown mold for the rebuild. There may not be another one of him out there but we need similar qualities. We need to take someone from the SEC B1G and young that has the talent evaluation. Those 2 conferences are getting 24 bids right now, need to pay for their talent and their staff to be competitive.

 

[Scooch]

Great post. The issues were obvious after the first 3 games. That’s why statements like “all that matters is we won”... total nonsense. In a single elimination format like the NCAAT that is true. When it’s against LeMoyne and Colgate before thanksgiving…. Uhh, the how kinda matters.

And hey don’t sell that barnburner short, it was TRIPLE OT!

Anyone who wasn't bought in to what Autry was peddling last summer could see the bright, flashing, red light warning signs in those first three games.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Top to bottom this is the worst talent and worst coaching i have seen since Roys days. This team sucks in every aspect of Basketball. They are really bad. Beyond anything SU has ever rolled out.

Last week you loved Red. I can’t keep up with your flip flops!

 

[NineOneSeven]

Anyone who wasn't bought in to what Autry was peddling last summer could see the bright, flashing, red light warning signs in those first three games.

I mean… both of those teams had the ball with the shot clock off and a chance to win the game!

 

[cusefan88]

So far the main constant that I can see is that the players seem to ignore Red and they lack accountability to the coaches and to each other.

Of all things seen that to me is the biggest issue. Worst thing is that if you attend in person and watch the bench you see Red cares more than the players.

 

[AcAndAc]

If Red is not fully GERG II, he is at least Shafer II. Surprisingly decent first season with leftover players and some gaping, unfilled holes to provide optimism regarding coaching acumen. Some notable blowouts in Year 1 also. But, by year 2, clearly overmatched in all aspects of the game. Shafer almost lost to VIllanova to open Year 2. We all know how Year 2 for Red started. If the pattern follows, we will start out next year decently enough to get some optimisim in November/December (Shafer started Year 3 with a 3-0)... and then collapse miserably again, missing the Big Dance. Let's just hope Red does not start acting looney at season's end due to desperation...

 

[AcAndAc]

So far the main constant that I can see is that the players seem to ignore Red and they lack accountability to the coaches and to each other.

Of all things seen that to me is the biggest issue. Worst thing is that if you attend in person and watch the bench you see Red cares more than the players.

The even worse thing is that you can attend the game in person and get seats close to the bench.

When I was a kid, I would move down to Level 1 for the last several minutes of blowout wins after the crowd started thinning and the ushers did not care/need to enforce tickets/seats. Now we can do that in blowout losses! Or just get seats down there due to apathy...

 

[Scooch]

I mean… both of those teams had the ball with the shot clock off and a chance to win the game!

Oh yeah, it was really, really bad. Not to mention that LeMoyne was missing their best player. I know that only counts for some folks when it's SU missing good players, but it was another terrifying sign.

I've said it before but I largely checked out of following the hoops team from March through August-ish. I knew we signed Lampkin and had a couple big recruits coming in. When I got re-engaged and found out our other three portal acquisitions were low major guys... I was really puzzled. But people assured me that they were really good. Oops.

 

[5OutFred]

It is frankly astounding that missing the ACC tournament is not universally considered grounds for firing a coach at a program that (used to) consider(s) itself high-caliber, following a season of missing the NCAA.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Here's my prediction on a crappy cold Monday in February. I expect we will have Autry next year with improved talent yet we will fall short of the tourney with the same ups and downs. Basically a repeat of last year, not good enough. Maybe even 20-22 wins, but who cares if we can't beat a single tourney team during the year.

I think JW, the donors, and alums will know by mid December if the coaching search is on. Don't forget we're playing in the NIL Players Era tourney in Vegas. A last place or bottom finish there will tell us what kind of season is coming. We'll see the portal talent and HS recruits and how they stack up against top tier teams very early. Autry doesn't get any more excuses to say they're figuring it out for 2 months of the season because we saw how that worked out this year.

While Autry is chasing the bubble they'll be out there looking for someone that fits the Fran Brown mold for the rebuild. There may not be another one of him out there but we need similar qualities. We need to take someone from the SEC B1G and young that has the talent evaluation. Those 2 conferences are getting 24 bids right now, need to pay for their talent and their staff to be competitive.

Sounds a little like Luke to me. He can be the chosen one.

 

[RedtheGOB]

Sounds a little like Luke to me. He can be the chosen one.

Yea didn't you know his name is Kiyan ha.

 

[orangecuse]

It is frankly astounding that missing the ACC tournament is not universally considered grounds for firing a coach at a program that (used to) consider(s) itself high-caliber, following a season of missing the NCAA.

Honestly, you couldn't be more correct. It truly speaks volumes.

 

[kingtidge]

Here's my prediction on a crappy cold Monday in February. I expect we will have Autry next year with improved talent yet we will fall short of the tourney with the same ups and downs. Basically a repeat of last year, not good enough. Maybe even 20-22 wins, but who cares if we can't beat a single tourney team during the year.

I think JW, the donors, and alums will know by mid December if the coaching search is on. Don't forget we're playing in the NIL Players Era tourney in Vegas. A last place or bottom finish there will tell us what kind of season is coming. We'll see the portal talent and HS recruits and how they stack up against top tier teams very early. Autry doesn't get any more excuses to say they're figuring it out for 2 months of the season because we saw how that worked out this year.

While Autry is chasing the bubble they'll be out there looking for someone that fits the Fran Brown mold for the rebuild. There may not be another one of him out there but we need similar qualities. We need to take someone from the SEC B1G and young that has the talent evaluation. Those 2 conferences are getting 24 bids right now, need to pay for their talent and their staff to be competitive.

^^^This is what I am expecting as well

The Fran Brown-type fit is Hodgson. Top recruiter under Oates, rising star with not only Northeast ties but from upstate NY and worked Cuse youth camps, etc.

Arkansas St just upped his buyout by a mill and he's name is being bandied for a number of P4 jobs this off-season.

He'll already be in a new P4 job next year, so we will have missed our chance.

Hopefully they find someone else good, but he'd be one helluva good fit.

 

[bnoro]

Can't wait to waste another year because "we have a GM and more NIL money now" that's "going to upgrade the talent" and then the portal closes and we're wondering why no player wanted to come play for a lame duck coach who doesn't know how to coach M2M defense.

What transfer is going to want to come to SU right now? Besides a bunch of low/mid major guys that will give us the same issues as this season?

 

[Irishsecra1]

It is frankly astounding that missing the ACC tournament is not universally considered grounds for firing a coach at a program that (used to) consider(s) itself high-caliber, following a season of missing the NCAA.

If I had a vote, I would fire him at seasons end.

 

[hoopsupstate]

^^^This is what I am expecting as well

The Fran Brown-type fit is Hodgson. Top recruiter under Oates, rising star with not only Northeast ties but from upstate NY and worked Cuse youth camps, etc.

Arkansas St just upped his buyout by a mill and he's name is being bandied for a number of P4 jobs this off-season.

He'll already be in a new P4 job next year, so we will have missed our chance.

Hopefully they find someone else good, but he'd be one helluva good fit.

I watched his game over the weekend against Troy and I came away unimpressed. It was all isolation on offense and they played out of control. Defense was only ok and not great. I didn’t see anything that the coach did to get his best players shots.

 

[kingtidge]

I watched his game over the weekend against Troy and I came away unimpressed. It was all isolation on offense and they played out of control. Defense was only ok and not great. I didn’t see anything that the coach did to get his best players shots.

Ok, noted.

Also, fwiw, he has Arkansas St currently in 1st place in the Sun Belt.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Ok, noted.

Also, fwiw, he has Arkansas St currently in 1st place in the Sun Belt.

He could have put a virtual lock on first place, but blew the game at home vs Troy and is now in a three way tie. To be fair, it’s the only game I’ve seen them play, but they didn’t look like an all world great coached team. By the way people talk about him, I expected a lot more.

 

[Newhouser]

It is frankly astounding that missing the ACC tournament is not universally considered grounds for firing a coach at a program that (used to) consider(s) itself high-caliber, following a season of missing the NCAA.

Watching the local news last night. Sports leads with big font ON THE BUBBLE. Underneath little font " for the ACC tournament". That's where we are. Sad

 

[richard levy]

It depends how they play. It depends on how Red is subbing and his feel for the game. Is there more defensive intensity, etc.
The “what if” has a ton of variables.

All I know is that in different sports, you see how coaching impacts the team a lot more than adding “talent and money and stir”.

I saw it this year with the Commanders in NFL.
I saw it with the Cubs when they added Joe Madden in 2015.
tons of other examples.

A lot of it is controlling the locker room too. I worked in MLB for a decade, and having toxic locker rooms and lack of leadership (from player level and coaching) is the difference between bad and good teams (is there a player leader at Cuse currently? Does Red control the locker room? Honest questions)

At pros and in power conference college basketball, all of these players are talented and good. There are a few levels of “good” but the separator , in my opinion, is harnessing that collective talent and maximizing it (coaching)

"I saw it with the Cubs when they added Joe Madden." Bad example. Unfortunately it would take me more than typing a hundred words, but using Joe Madden as an example is a bad example. Cubs finally made a commitment signing Lester in 2015, budding stars Rizzo and Bryant emerged, good trades finally, etc. Madden nearly blew game 7 in 2016 WS by pulling Hendricks in 4th, and bringing in exhausted Chapman to blow lead in 9th. And then he was gone by 2019. However, I do agree coaching has a major impact on a "program's" success

 

[JeffCuse]

St John's iucky to have an alum like Pitino.

BTW Not saying I want Pitino specifically.

Just that they are lucky to have an alum like him because thats the rule and all.

 

[SwagSocks]

"I saw it with the Cubs when they added Joe Madden." Bad example. Unfortunately it would take me more than typing a hundred words, but using Joe Madden as an example is a bad example. Cubs finally made a commitment signing Lester in 2015, budding stars Rizzo and Bryant emerged, good trades finally, etc. Madden nearly blew game 7 in 2016 WS by pulling Hendricks in 4th, and bringing in exhausted Chapman to blow lead in 9th. And then he was gone by 2019. However, I do agree coaching has a major impact on a "program's" success

Not a bad example. I was with MLB at the time, and he changed the whole entire culture and atmosphere of that team.
He (and the coaching staff) was able to make the best out of Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Arrieta etc.
Did he suck in game 7? Yes. But the Cubs didn’t have a winning record since 2009 before Maddon joined, and then he went to 3 straight NLCS’ and won 90+ games 4 out of the 5 years he was there.

After he was fired, the Cubs have stunk. Maddon and Theo Epstein had the greatest run in Cubs history and it was because of their leadership. Players matter too, but having good culture from the top down is so important.

If you want to talk baseball we could do it on a different forum. But I have a lot of insights and was breathing it everyday for 10 full seasons

 

[Scooch]

St John's iucky to have an alum like Pitino.

BTW Not saying I want Pitino specifically.

Just that they are lucky to have an alum like him because thats the rule and all.

It also helps that SJ has an actual alum who gives the school a ton of money with zero strings attached and no expectations for a quid pro quo.

 

[Jasoncuse]

So in summary --

Our coach ---

Can't identify talent
Can't coach Xs and Os
Can't coach up lesser talent
Can't develop kids
Can't in-game coach with rotation
Can't figure out late-game strategy on the fly

What is one aspect of coaching Red does well??

Shoe game is usually good, and if it was his idea to go with the all script unis, I'll give him that.

As far as actual coaching. Nothing.

 

[richard levy]

Not a bad example. I was with MLB at the time, and he changed the whole entire culture and atmosphere of that team.
He (and the coaching staff) was able to make the best out of Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Arrieta etc.
Did he suck in game 7? Yes. But the Cubs didn’t have a winning record since 2009 before Maddon joined, and then he went to 3 straight NLCS’ and won 90+ games 4 out of the 5 years he was there.

After he was fired, the Cubs have stunk. Maddon and Theo Epstein had the greatest run in Cubs history and it was because of their leadership. Players matter too, but having good culture from the top down is so important.

If you want to talk baseball we could do it on a different forum. But I have a lot of insights and was breathing it everyday for 10 full seasons

I l lived in wrigleyville, from the ball going through Durhams legs, Bartman ball and 2016. Season ticket holder. And i respectfully disagree. Madden was a good manager who was in the right place at the right time. Did the Cubs have unprecedented success, Absolutely. But management put the pieces in place through high draft picks and timely trades. Almost all the key pieces were in place at the time he arrived. All declined on his watch. And what was supposed to be a 5 yr domination ended with Madden being "released" and the Cubs blowing it up. Cheers