Feelings of Hopelessness for this Program amidst the Gaslighting

[richard levy]

Not a bad example. I was with MLB at the time, and he changed the whole entire culture and atmosphere of that team.
He (and the coaching staff) was able to make the best out of Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, Arrieta etc.
Did he suck in game 7? Yes. But the Cubs didn’t have a winning record since 2009 before Maddon joined, and then he went to 3 straight NLCS’ and won 90+ games 4 out of the 5 years he was there.

After he was fired, the Cubs have stunk. Maddon and Theo Epstein had the greatest run in Cubs history and it was because of their leadership. Players matter too, but having good culture from the top down is so important.

If you want to talk baseball we could do it on a different forum. But I have a lot of insights and was breathing it everyday for 10 full seasons

I l lived in wrigleyville, from the ball going through Durhams legs, Bartman ball and 2016. Season ticket holder. And i respectfully disagree. Madden was a good manager who was in the right place at the right time. Did the Cubs have unprecedented success, Absolutely. But management put the pieces in place through high draft picks and timely trades. Almost all the key pieces were in place at the time he arrived. All declined on his watch. And what was supposed to be a 5 yr domination ended with Madden being "released" and the Cubs blowing it up. Cheers

 

[Jasoncuse]

Can't wait to waste another year because "we have a GM and more NIL money now" that's "going to upgrade the talent" and then the portal closes and we're wondering why no player wanted to come play for a lame duck coach who doesn't know how to coach M2M defense.

What transfer is going to want to come to SU right now? Besides a bunch of low/mid major guys that will give us the same issues as this season?

This is exactly the issue and why we need to rip the bandaid off and try to fix it a month from now. Clean house, except Kline. Prove to the fanbase this isn't acceptable and the school is actively trying to solve this.

There is literally no reason to give Red another year. Anybody with eyes can see he'd be a lame duck coach and it'll only be harder for the program next year. He can't coach offense or defense, doesn't demand the players play hard or tough and has shown over and over again that he's in over his head.

I laugh when I see that there will be (or may be?) more NIL funds available this year. Who cares?!? This staff prioritized Eddie and spent a huge chunk on him, kept Bell, didn't bring in a PG, any shooting, anybody that can play defense or any athleticism. Newsflash, it won't be any better this portal season.

We're going to miss out on potentially hiring a Hodgson or similar because of the asinine buyout that may be in place for Red or to be fair and give him a 3rd year? I can't fathom what this program is right now.

 

[Toga]

Would Autry not have taken the job of his apparently Significant buyout was less than it is?

 

[bnoro]

This is exactly the issue and why we need to rip the bandaid off and try to fix it a month from now. Clean house, except Kline. Prove to the fanbase this isn't acceptable and the school is actively trying to solve this.

There is literally no reason to give Red another year. Anybody with eyes can see he'd be a lame duck coach and it'll only be harder for the program next year. He can't coach offense or defense, doesn't demand the players play hard or tough and has shown over and over again that he's in over his head.

I laugh when I see that there will be (or may be?) more NIL funds available this year. Who cares?!? This staff prioritized Eddie and spent a huge chunk on him, kept Bell, didn't bring in a PG, any shooting, anybody that can play defense or any athleticism. Newsflash, it won't be any better this portal season.

We're going to miss out on potentially hiring a Hodgson or similar because of the asinine buyout that may be in place for Red or to be fair and give him a 3rd year? I can't fathom what this program is right now.

I'd get rid of Kline too. The coach is the program builder, not the GM. If the new coach wants to keep him fine, if not, see ya.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I'd get rid of Kline too. The coach is the program builder, not the GM. If the new coach wants to keep him fine, if not, see ya.

The new GM guys in soccer seem worthless as well even if the Real Madrids and the likes have them. More people that leave the better. I'd even end the agreement with JB to have him have some role in the AD. Wouldn't be petty if he wants free tickets fine I just don't see how he can help with how awful everything is right now.

 

[Cusefan95]

I'd get rid of Kline too. The coach is the program builder, not the GM. If the new coach wants to keep him fine, if not, see ya.

It’ll be interesting to see how that “GM” role evolves over time for schools. With all the changes in recruiting and NIL, I think that position is here to stay. And I don’t think the responsibilities are such that a new coach is going to have a lot of leverage to bring in “his guy”.

Here’s the list of responsibilities on the Syracuse site for Kline: “The primary responsibilities include scouting and recruiting, former student-athlete engagement, Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) opportunities, transfer portal management, and institutional fundraising in collaboration with University Advancement.”. A new coach would have to have a hell of an argument for why his guy would be better at finding NIL opportunities, or fundraising, or working with former players to justify a change. The only possibly legitimate reason would be that this is the role basically doing in-season scouting (and cough, cough…. recruiting…)…but a new coach in this particular case would need to have an amazing argument why a guy who scouted in the NBA isn’t a fit.

My expectation is there isn’t going to be high turnover in the “GM” role in college athletics in general - it looks like a stepping stone job on the way to being an AD. In our case right now, the idea that a new coach is going to be able to install “his guy” is very improbable.

 

[JeffCuse]

Anyone listening to the 12pm show on ESPN radio can tell...the PR campaign is ON

 

[elimunelson]

I took a new job recently and downshifted my online-ness by 95%. However on a quiet Friday I figured i'd check and see many more posts on next HC of SU hoops. Are we really bringing Red back after this season and how these games have gone.

We're not a serious program if he's not fired in a few weeks. If we don't make the ACCT that should be immediate termination at Syracuse absent a health issue for Red or some existential scenario.

Like, what are we doing. Dino was at least mediocre. This is beyond bad and program destroying.

The fact that Rick Pitino has rebuilt St Johns is the cherry on top.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Cant argue with you Eli, its all we have a GM now, were gonna have more money, blah blah blah

 

[PauliePeppas]

Anyone listening to the 12pm show on ESPN radio can tell...the PR campaign is ON

pathetic

 

[JeffCuse]

I respect the fact that some media folks don't want to be axed for being too negative, and I would never judge anyone for doing what they need to. I wouldn't expect to be criticized for it if I was doing what my employer asked me to do.

But don't explicitly say you aren't doing it. Just leave it alone.

 

[SwagSocks]

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[cusefan88]

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Also 6/10 stink.

 

[sufan59]

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Check out team 20

So basically we have 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament talent.

 

[tbonezone]

this whole season going about as well as C.C.R. and tina turner sang way back when.

SWIRLIN' , SWIRLIN' , SWIRLIN' down the turrlett...

 

[LAorange44]

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Check out team 20

I’ve always maintained we have talent but the school mouth pieces (local media) attribute our losses to injuries to JJ and Dooney, not the captain of the ship.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No recruiting class is ever worth keeping a coach over.
No recruiting class is ever worth holding a program hostage over.

What we have coming in next year is basically another version of Freeman and Moore.
And if we lose Freeman and Moore, then we have no depth, and basically will run back the same thing next year. Inexperienced kids being asked to do too much.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Also for the record, I appreciate everything did for this program and what it means to Syracuse. What he did up until the last 7 years was remarkable. Little, old Syracuse, NY. In the middle of nowhere and he turned Syracuse into a basketball powerhouse. The last 7 years and turning the program over to Autry is a shame cause it’s going to overshadow his legacy a bit. JAB is a stubborn man and the last few showed it. You have to know when to walk away and he just didn’t. He obviously wanted to coach his kids and he was willing to bring the program down with it, in order to do so

I don't like your narrative. I'm sorry, but SU basketball has always been a winning program. Syracuse was originally an NBA franchise. Was Storrs, CT?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Regarding his sons. I have no problem with him coaching them. Buddy was very good and Jimmy was good. They both played hard. We could use that shooting on this team lol. But Buddy was over utilized for his abilities (he’s a 25 min a game player max on a JB team built for maximum success) and Jimmy was even worse when it came to how much we played him, (5 min a game player on a JB team built for maximum success). We simply didn’t put together the best teams possible those years whether by design or just coincidence.

Jimmy was better than you're giving him credit for. He should have played 15-20 minutes backing up the forward spots.

 

[hoopsupstate]

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They have eight ACC teams listed in the top forty. They include SU, Virginia, NCS, ND and NC. It’s a joke if you’re using that as a reference point.

 

[2B20Again]

As we saw with football and Coach Fran, it is entirely possible to bring on a new, outside guy, AND retain the croots you want to retain.

Would it be a given that we could retain the '25 class guys, with a sufficiently not-turrible new coach hire?

Nope.

But given the fact that it seems almost irrelevant who and how good any future croots may be, if the current coaching staff can't utilize their talents properly, and build a competitive team around them.
NONE of the '25 class guys are generational talents, or even realistically top 10 type croots who you can feature as the Alpha on a given team.

Rutgers had the FOURTH ranked class w/ TWO top-5 5* recruits on their current squad.
How's that working out for them??

We aren't seeing ANYTHING from Red & crew that leads us to think there's any plan, any identity, any anything to build upon or even have any sense of optimism about.

When Danny Hurley started at UConn, they sucked for the first 2 seaons, but -
There was clearly a plan, a style, and a process they were implementing, and -
they got better over time.

We keep regressing.

I cannot see any scenario whereby Red comes back next year, and we improve in any meaningful way.

So, we should rip the bandaid off now (at the end of the season, if not even sooner), and get started with the process of a proper NATIONAL SEARCH, to then identify and interview the BEST possible candidates, and then hire the best one.

Don’t disagree 100%, however, to fire a coach who only had one year of his players (year 2) when it’s common knowledge that his bag was so small he couldn’t get the played he/they wanted doesn’t look enticing to recruit a top talent to replace him. He coach we want a Mercedes program, however you have Hyundai money. What do you say? Tough sell!

 

[rrlbees]

Don’t disagree 100%, however, to fire a coach who only had one year of his players (year 2) when it’s common knowledge that his bag was so small he couldn’t get the played he/they wanted doesn’t look enticing to recruit a top talent to replace him. He coach we want a Mercedes program, however you have Hyundai money. What do you say? Tough sell!

His bag was the size he thought he needed.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There's an article on The Athletic right now about UNC, and how Hubert Davis has ping-ponged between success and disaster these past few years.

Talked about an insular culture needing outside perspective. How the school was caught up in its historical image, when maybe outside of the school that image was changing among recruits and competitors.

Hired their own GM with great NBA connections - but still a UNC guy. Talks about the need to be more competitive with NIL and not expect the brand or the history to sell itself anymore.

Reminded me very much of what we've been hearing and saying about Coach Autry. Explains to an extent why he's getting another year. Hubert has done much more so far, but was born on 3rd base into this job.

One thing he said that was really insightful: "It's all become so much more professional. Everything is written contracts now. No more handshake deals."

A very interesting read, given the state of our program. Behind a paywall, but here's the link for subscribers. If you subscribe to the Times, I think you can get this, too.

UNC basketball needed to change. Will Tar Heels’ plan to return to top come together?

UNC could miss the NCAA Tournament for the second time in three seasons. Will a new GM fix Tar Heels' struggles under Hubert Davis?

www.nytimes.com

 

[2B20Again]

Here's my prediction on a crappy cold Monday in February. I expect we will have Autry next year with improved talent yet we will fall short of the tourney with the same ups and downs. Basically a repeat of last year, not good enough. Maybe even 20-22 wins, but who cares if we can't beat a single tourney team during the year.

I think JW, the donors, and alums will know by mid December if the coaching search is on. Don't forget we're playing in the NIL Players Era tourney in Vegas. A last place or bottom finish there will tell us what kind of season is coming. We'll see the portal talent and HS recruits and how they stack up against top tier teams very early. Autry doesn't get any more excuses to say they're figuring it out for 2 months of the season because we saw how that worked out this year.

While Autry is chasing the bubble they'll be out there looking for someone that fits the Fran Brown mold for the rebuild. There may not be another one of him out there but we need similar qualities. We need to take someone from the SEC B1G and young that has the talent evaluation. Those 2 conferences are getting 24 bids right now, need to pay for their talent and their staff to be competitive.

Not to dispute a Fran brown type that would be great. But like Mc Cord they don’t grow on trees. SEC and Big10 have and have spent what’s was needed to get the players and coaches to get the job done. Those conferences have done that for decades in football. They just released funds for hoops program. SU was very slow to react and that’s nothing new. Although Red was not my choice all can’t fall on him or Wildack either. The decisions are made by committee and approved by the chancellor. Always was and always been that way in the hill. I go back to Mel Eggers and the feeling regarding athletics at SU is a necessary evil betwixt the ivory tower of academia. I’m not decrying that philosophy but don’t hide behind the truth. SU athletics is one of Avery few athletic programs that had run in the black for years. Out

 

[Scooch]

Don’t disagree 100%, however, to fire a coach who only had one year of his players (year 2) when it’s common knowledge that his bag was so small he couldn’t get the played he/they wanted doesn’t look enticing to recruit a top talent to replace him. He coach we want a Mercedes program, however you have Hyundai money. What do you say? Tough sell!

The most important job of a head coach today is to secure the funding he needs to acquire players. It’s literally more important than any other function.

Red failed at that. And the responsibility lies entirely at his feet.