Fire Autry

[Orangezoo]

You are missing the point and defeating your own argument. Talent is a subjective evaluation on paper, players play the game...our "More talented players" played like crap against BC and Hofstra and they lost. Being relevant again!!! Sorry to say, that may not happen anytime soon in this current landscape.

You are the only one talking in circles and not even having an argument here. There are multiple teams with up and coming coaches who are faring far better with less talent than Red, most notably two of the guys mentioned as replacements.

You are trying to back into the talent argument via results. Essentially saying results prove the talent is good enough and that no matter what the roster is- if they don’t win- it’s that they have less talent than expected. That’s nonsensical. If that were the case then AI would be coaching since there is no need for anything but recruiting.

It also doesn’t explain why teams with multiple lottery picks still barely make the tournament or don’t make it. If the NBA wants them and they succeed at that level but don’t win much in college they aren’t talented enough?

 

[Cusefan95]

Same thing I do when we play in March and get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round.

Get on with my life.

Syracuse not playing in March doesn’t have a huge impact on my life. But what has happened over the last decade is my “getting on with my life” happens earlier and earlier. At this point, it’s before the season - I don’t spend money on ticket to go to games, and don’t watch often on TV either. I forgot we had a game yesterday until I saw the “Fire Red” thread at the top and knew we’d lost. There’s not much gap between getting on with my life and not needing to since Syracuse basketball is irrelevant.

I don’t think much concern is required that people won’t be able to get on with their lives when the season ends. I think the real concern - at least for leaders at Syracuse University - is people keep getting better and better at “getting on with their lives” in ways that will have lasting negative revenue impacts.

And I know the argument -“All they need to do is win and everyone will come back!” I’m skeptical. I know no amount of winning is going to get me back to spending money and time supporting the program the way I did. With my young kids, other activities have taken over what could have been spent watching Syracuse basketball and going to games. They are not going to get interested just because a team they have no connection to starts winning. That means I’m not going to get that invested either. It’s been a decade of mediocrity, so I suspect a decent amount of people are like me and are gone forever. If the replacement of Red isn’t a slam dunk success, I think we’re essentially done as a viable high level program. Might be able to cash checks like DePaul does from the Big East - but that’s all.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

 

[STEVEHOLT]

This outcome was predictably inevitable.

It's what happens when you hire under-qualified people into performance driven roles.

There was an enormous amount of rationalization when Red got the job, but it was an incredibly poor decision that has led to further decline. He couldn't coach when he inherited a roster of someone else's players, he couldn't coach when he had the chance to go reshape the roster with a bunch of portal transfers last year, and he can't coach when we have a roster that is clearly capable of making the NCAA tournament, were it not for the bad coaching.

Common denominator: bad coaching.

Boeheim wanted red
As far as my thinking, you either get to pick your successor OR go out “on your own terms”. Not both., Boeheim overstayed his “best before” date by years and THEN drop this legacy turd on us. If he wanted to pick the next coach he should have left earlier. If he wanted to keep coaching so far beyond usefulness, then you don’t pick the next guy

 

[Briancuse]

You are missing the point and defeating your own argument. Talent is a subjective evaluation on paper, players play the game...our "More talented players" played like crap against BC and Hofstra and they lost. Being relevant again!!! Sorry to say, that may not happen anytime soon in this current landscape.

If we had Brad brownell coaching this group we would be 15 and 3.

 

[RF2044]

Boeheim wanted red
As far as my thinking, you either get to pick your successor OR go out “on your own terms”. Not both., Boeheim overstayed his “best before” date by years and THEN drop this legacy turd on us. If he wanted to pick the next coach he should have left earlier. If he wanted to keep coaching so far beyond usefulness, then you don’t pick the next

Boeheim wanted red
As far as my thinking, you either get to pick your successor OR go out “on your own terms”. Not both., Boeheim overstayed his “best before” date by years and THEN drop this legacy turd on us. If he wanted to pick the next coach he should have left earlier. If he wanted to keep coaching so far beyond usefulness, then you don’t pick the next guy

He held our program hostage by staying too long, and leading the program into a precipitous decline

And he's still holding our program hostage, three years later.

Looking forward to a clean break / fresh blood.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Boeheim wanted red
As far as my thinking, you either get to pick your successor OR go out “on your own terms”. Not both., Boeheim overstayed his “best before” date by years and THEN drop this legacy turd on us. If he wanted to pick the next coach he should have left earlier. If he wanted to keep coaching so far beyond usefulness, then you don’t pick the next guy

He didn't chose when to retire, he was retired. And some insiders have said he wanted GMac, which I always believed. But he set it up (intentionally or not) that if it was going to be a member of his staff it was going to be AA.

 

[FloridaCuse]

He held our program hostage by staying too long, and leading the program into a precipitous decline

And he's still holding our program hostage, three years later.

Looking forward to a clean break / fresh blood.

How is he holding the program hostage now?

 

[tbonezone]

Jim Boeheim​

Special Assistant to the Director of Athletics

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

How is he holding the program hostage now?

I think the poster you're responding to was pointing out that Autry is still here.

 

[FloridaCuse]

I think the poster you're responding to was pointing out that Autry is still here.

Yes, I get that. But how is JB holding the program hostage now? Did he make the decision to not make a change after last year? Or to make a change now?

 

[OttosDad]

Yes, I get that. But how is JB holding the program hostage now? Did he make the decision to not make a change after last year? Or to make a change now?

Sure, he’s not the one responsible for firing Red. But it is NOT helpful when he goes on local talk shows and defends Red like he did a month ago.

I’m paraphrasing but believe his point was they still didn’t have enough money in NIL (the reported $8-$9 million on a roster is enough to make the tournament). And that every coach deserves 5 years. Comments like that give Red a break in much of the fanbase’s eye due to the credibility JB has built up.

He needs to shut up and go away. It’s best for all parties involved

 

[capeorange]

Yes, I get that. But how is JB holding the program hostage now? Did he make the decision to not make a change after last year? Or to make a change now?

He thinks a new coach still needs 5 years to turn it around. Hopefully JB is not one of the decision makers and if he is, I hope he can see that no amount of time will help Red's coaching.

 

[orangepassion]

Boeheim is always going to defend coaches. He's a long-time HC.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Sure, he’s not the one responsible for firing Red. But it is NOT helpful when he goes on local talk shows and defends Red like he did a month ago.

I’m paraphrasing but believe his point was they still didn’t have enough money in NIL (the reported $8-$9 million on a roster is enough to make the tournament). And that every coach deserves 5 years. Comments like that give Red a break in much of the fanbase’s eye due to the credibility JB has built up.

He needs to shut up and go away. It’s best for all parties involved

Thanks. I hadn't heard that. I'd guess though that he wouldn't want to have his fingerprints publicly on Autry being fired. He'd probably defend Autry even if he is fired. But who knows what he'd tell ADJW privately

 

[newmexicuse]

Syracuse not playing in March doesn’t have a huge impact on my life. But what has happened over the last decade is my “getting on with my life” happens earlier and earlier. At this point, it’s before the season - I don’t spend money on ticket to go to games, and don’t watch often on TV either. I forgot we had a game yesterday until I saw the “Fire Red” thread at the top and knew we’d lost. There’s not much gap between getting on with my life and not needing to since Syracuse basketball is irrelevant.

I don’t think much concern is required that people won’t be able to get on with their lives when the season ends. I think the real concern - at least for leaders at Syracuse University - is people keep getting better and better at “getting on with their lives” in ways that will have lasting negative revenue impacts.

And I know the argument -“All they need to do is win and everyone will come back!” I’m skeptical. I know no amount of winning is going to get me back to spending money and time supporting the program the way I did. With my young kids, other activities have taken over what could have been spent watching Syracuse basketball and going to games. They are not going to get interested just because a team they have no connection to starts winning. That means I’m not going to get that invested either. It’s been a decade of mediocrity, so I suspect a decent amount of people are like me and are gone forever. If the replacement of Red isn’t a slam dunk success, I think we’re essentially done as a viable high level program. Might be able to cash checks like DePaul does from the Big East - but that’s all.

A lot of great points.

Personally I think the modern day landscape of the portal and one or two seasons and done makes it very hard to get vested into a team however much we may love our alma mater.

During the glory days you could have favorite players and know that you could watch them grow and develop over a three or four year period. Now, it is rare to have anybody who is any good stay for more than a year or two before they go pro or go portal.

The team is comprised of players, and if the roster is quicksand, it becomes more and more difficult to get vested into the concept of team without being able to vest into the individual components of that entity.

 

[LpoolNative]

I’ll be so relieved when this whole JB/Red saga is behind us.

Im so thankful for all the memories JB gave us over the years but it’s time to turn the chapter.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Are we talking about the same Jim Boeheim, who had Derrick Coleman, Billy Thompson, Laron Ellis, and Stevie Thompson on the same team...and didn't win a chip? That Coach B? We are all nostalgic and yearn for the good ole days...this new era requires a different combination of factors to field successful teams...and what we think of as "great coaching", isn't as important anymore as is the ability to identify talent, have the ability to PAY Talented PlAYERS and retain them. With rosters changing every year, it is much harder to develop chemistry and develop future talent. Is Duke's coach a great coach? Who knows, it may look like that, but one thing is certain is that Duke keeps attracting high level talent and they only lose that talent to the NBA and not to other teams in the transfer portal. Unless we enhance our money stream, Syracuse like, many other programs, will continue to just be inconsistent and average compared to past standards, independent of who is coaching. That is a hard pill to swallow and accept...but that is what this current situation suggests...You can see it already in college football with the retooling of all the top teams...Miami..Indiana...Ole Miss- who has stolen our entire starting wide receiver group for next year- Why?- Deeper pockets!!

Smells like...

 

[Red Holzman]

A lot of great points.

Personally I think the modern day landscape of the portal and one or two seasons and done makes it very hard to get vested into a team however much we may love our alma mater.

During the glory days you could have favorite players and know that you could watch them grow and develop over a three or four year period. Now, it is rare to have anybody who is any good stay for more than a year or two before they go pro or go portal.

The team is comprised of players, and if the roster is quicksand, it becomes more and more difficult to get vested into the concept of team without being able to vest into the individual components of that entity.

Regarding being vested-
I am another fan that started slipping away during the JB Program Hostage Crisis, and the "Red Era" has completed the process.
My fandom now consists of stopping by this forum to see what's being discussed, and feeling bad for the remaining dedicated fans -and especially the big NIL donors who have to be greatly disappointed.

And agree with Cusefan95's post: The "if you build it they will come" goal of getting the disengaged fans back by turning the program around may be a bigger challenge than expected. The new NIL environment plays a big role there.

 

[RedtheGOB]

Given the thread title and the posters most vocal here.

How many wins in ACC play would it take to get him back?

It seems to be the bridge has been burned but would 15-3 get you to givd him another year? 14-4?

 

[DoctorBombay]

It's not the players? Really? It's not the knuckleheads who threw the ball to the other team 18 times? Red may not be the greatest coach, but even the world's best coach couldn't overcome what those clowns did.

Red is not coaching, sounding, or acting like a man who knows his azz is on fire...as he should be under the circumstances.
Wheres the fricken' command of the team?
18 turnovers and no one sits?
Chaotic, haphazard play and no chewing out? Typical bland presser afterwards and no discernable reactions whatsoever.
I honestly don't think he sees his job in jeopardy. There's no urgency to anything he does.
Fully expected him.to go out guns blazing this season, but he just doesn't have it in him. The most uninspiring HC I've ever seen...just bleh boring mayonnaise stuff. SMDH

 

[sufan59]

Given the thread title and the posters most vocal here.

How many wins in ACC play would it take to get him back?

It seems to be the bridge has been burned but would 15-3 get you to give him another year? 14-4?

12-6 for me, a semifinal appearance in the ACC tournament. Make the NCAA Tournament. I'm so frustrated this team should have a significantly better record with these pieces than they do now. They lost ground from the BC game, even if they get back to that positioning, will they be able to breakthrough to the next level. Sick and tired of the choking in moments you need to just take care of business.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Red is not coaching, sounding, or acting like a man who knows his azz is on fire...as he should be under the circumstances.
Wheres the fricken' command of the team?
18 turnovers and no one sits?
Chaotic, haphazard play and no chewing out? Typical bland presser afterwards and no discernable reactions whatsoever.
I honestly don't think he sees his job in jeopardy. There's no urgency to anything he does.
Fully expected him.to go out guns blazing this season, but he just doesn't have it in him. The most uninspiring HC I've ever seen...just bleh boring mayonnaise stuff. SMDH

On first glance, it would make sense for Nait the not-so-great and Darling Donnie to have a prolonged seat on the far end of the bench. The problem is that doing so would mean sitting your point guard and the biggest offensive weapon you have. I could just hear the posters now: "Red sat Nait and Donnie! He's nuts, incompetent, a fool."

 

[FloridaCuse]

Jim Boeheim​

Special Assistant to the Director of Athletics

Probably in name only. To give him a place and ease being retired.

 

[DoctorBombay]

On first glance, it would make sense for Nait the not-so-great and Darling Donnie to have a prolonged seat on the far end of the bench. The problem is that doing so would mean sitting your point guard and the biggest offensive weapon you have. I could just hear the posters now: "Red sat Nait and Donnie! He's nuts, incompetent, a fool."

Fair enough. But at the very least it sends a message that you're in charge and will not, even at the risk of losing a game, tolerate lazy bs play from your team
Call me old school, but we've seemed to get away from HCs who lose their isht on a regular basis. The winners like Kirby, Hurley, etc., they don't hesitate to stake their claim as the Alpha in the program. No one's asking for indiscriminate buffoonery, but danmit, how about some good old-fashioned chewing out every once on a while?
I hoped to see Red send a message this year, early and often, that certain things were not gonna be tolerated on the court. One or 2 lazy passes...sit your azz down. No hustling on defense, sit your azz down. Bad shot outside of the offense, sit your azz down!
That being said, I've come to the conclusion that Red just doesn't have that in him. JMHO