Fire Autry

[RF2044]

Other than recruiting what was the upside that put him over the top to be hired. I just don’t see it. The feel good story of hiring one of our own isn’t enough to make the hire. Nobody outside the bot cares where the coach came from. Just a lazy hire. Jab was already disgruntled from being fired.

Path of least resistance.

Misguided sentiment to hang onto the past.

Some BoT members overstepping their roles and intervening in the hiring decision, based upon their personal relationships with Boeheim.

Because otherwise, you are right.

 

[Scooch]

When ADJW made the difficult choice to force JB to finally step down, the hard part was in the rear view mirror. Unfortunately, he and certain members of the BoT absolutely BLEW IT by hiring an undequalified candidate in Autry at a time when the program was in a precarious position after a near-decade of decline under Boeheim.

People will say that JW had "no choice," or that Boeheim would have thrown a tantrum if we'd gone outside of the program. I say, so what? He would have had a tantrum, and then it would have been over, they would have given him the same job he has, and the band aid would have been ripped off.

Instead, the program has declined even further, we have the worst coach of any P4 school, and fan apathy is at an all time high. It is an expensive lesson -- the path of least resistance might be "easiest," but when you hire someone unqualified in a performance-driven role, failure is the most likely outcome.

This whole thing was botched from the start. You don't artificially constrain the candidate pool. You don't hire an inexperienced "captain" when the ship is floudering. And you don't install someone with no proven track record, and make a continuity hire, when performance is already poor.

Red is one of our own. He's a very nice guy. He is a very good assistant coach. But hopefully this is an object lesson of what NOT to do when it comes to making hires.

My only quibble is that I firmly believe hiring Autry was a key component in getting JB to "retire". I believe the two things were very much linked, not that JB was forced out and then Red was hired.

If not for coercing JB to step down by hiring one of his guys to follow him, JB would have refused and forced SU to fire him. There wouldn't have been a gracious transfer of power. There would have been a press conference about SU terminating their legendary HC. There would have been endless news cycles of former players trashing the school.

We can debate if that was the right approach, but it seems clear to me that SU did not want that kind of press, so they did what they did.

 

[Blanko97]

He’s not on this list. There will be a lot of competition for Hodgson et al.

That’s because his seat has already burned up

 

[orangepassion]

He’s not on this list. There will be a lot of competition for Hodgson et al.

Autry can’t even make the top 10? That’s the clincher that he needs to go.

 

[JarHeadJim]

Carmelo Anthony appears unhappy with state of Syracuse hoops

Syracuse alum Carmelo Anthony does not appear happy with the current state of the program, commenting "SMFH" under a highlight from Monday's loss to UNC.

www.espn.com

 

[Newhouser]

"At the time," JB had already been mouthing off that ENTIRE YEAR, and had garnered a significant amount of coverage from the sports media every time he said something controversial. He was being made fun of the in sports media, seemingly every other press conference.

So if he'd thrown a tantrum at the end, and bad mouthed SU? That would have sucked, it would have garnered some minor coverage with the sports media at large making fun of him some more, and then it would have been over. Band aid ripped off.

I have an alternate theory. JB wanted a job, and he wanted something to do after he stopped coaching. I think he would have been motivated to get that job more than he wanted to scorch the earth. The fear of him scorching the earth is one of the big reasons why the University employed the path of least resistance, but not the only one.

And I think it is overstated, to help rationalize away the strategically indefensible outcome of who we hired as the replacement.

I think your second paragraph is spot on. By the end of his tenure the national media could have cared less about JB or our program. Sort of dismissed as the old man ranting again. It's also why I think the scorched earth scenario is overstated big time.

 

[phil77]

He’s not on this list. There will be a lot of competition for Hodgson et al.

Red isn't on the hot seat because he is already fired.

 

[Sbucketball]

He’s not on this list. There will be a lot of competition for Hodgson et al.

How has Jeff Capel held on this long. He's on the hot seat every year. Pitt really doesn't care do they.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Fair enough but probably a very small few know what actually happened. For the record I don’t know. ADJW doesn’t have to outsource his process with a firm. I would expect reasonably he would have had to share his process and decision making with the chancellor and BoT. I don’t think he goes to the Chancellor and says”hey this guy Fran called me, I was immediately aligned and wanted him hired on the spot and by the way I didn’t look at anyone else. Nor did I solicit inputs and guidance.” I mean people need to take a step back and just think about it carefully. Especially given the amount of money involved. Fans get emotional so kinda think emotionally. (Not saying you are, just in general).

Yes, and taking a step back and looking at it rationally, when you begin a coaching search, names often get leaked to the press.

We know the Autry hiring was dictated by JB, not the result of a search. It was also the cheap option, although they apparently over-paid to hire an unproven coach.

I don't recall many names getting leaked in the press before Fran was hired. There were a couple coaches that were mentioned on this board, but never anything public. That tells me that they didn't get too far in the process with other candidates. We didn't have anyone turn us down. And, again, we hired a guy with no head coaching experience, probably for about half the price of a proven head coach.

 

[Archimedes]

Path of least resistance.

Misguided sentiment to hang onto the past.

Some BoT members overstepping their roles and intervening in the hiring decision, based upon their personal relationships with Boeheim.

Because otherwise, you are right.

Hindsight is 20/20. There were good and valid reasons for hiring Red.

1.) A continuity hire is legit when your program is #6 in all-time wins.

2.) There was proven donor money behind Red. Take the sure thing to the bank.

3.) Red is local. He won't check out. (The SU football coach was looking for homes back west in early 2023.)

There was a logic to hiring Red and I'm guessing a lot more people here supported it than are letting on now. Board consensus is too tough on ADJW and the BOT now. Just my $.02.

PS -- The BOT's job is to "intervene" in everything. Maybe Red's BOT backers just argued better.

 

[Brooky03]

The conjecture here is bananas, lol.

The well wasn’t poisoned. They did what senior leadership tends to do in these situations (in my corporate world experience. YMMV); they gave an internal guy a shot because it was a) cheap b) easy c) worked in the past and just generally tends to work out well enough. That’s it. I know everybody here is an insider with the whole scoop and all the knowledge of the inner working and yada yada, but the JB/BoT strong arm stuff and AD with his hands tied seems drastically exaggerated, at the very least.

Was JB kicking and screaming? Yeah, probably. Did he have friends on the BoT? Of course. Was there some influence by them? Yup. But the bottom line is a continuity hire is not at all uncommon in these scenarios and far from crazy. It was ultimately the wrong decision. Win some lose some.

 

[djorange1989]

The conjecture here is bananas, lol.

The well wasn’t poisoned. They did what senior leadership tends to do in these situations (in my corporate world experience. YMMV); they gave an internal guy a shot because it was a) cheap b) easy c) worked in the past and just generally tends to work out well enough. That’s it. I know everybody here is an insider with the whole scoop and all the knowledge of the inner working and yada yada, but the JB/BoT strong arm stuff and AD with his hands tied seems drastically exaggerated, at the very least.

Was JB kicking and screaming? Yeah, probably. Did he have friends on the BoT? Of course. Was there some influence by them? Yup. But the bottom line is a continuity hire is not at all uncommon in these scenarios and far from crazy. It was ultimately the wrong decision. Win some lose some.

Continuity hires are common, but usually those happen when a program is still doing well. We sucked when JB retired/was pushed out, that was clear. They absolutely took the cheap and easy way out and the results show it.

 

[Scooch]

Continuity hires are common, but usually those happen when a program is still doing well. We sucked when JB retired/was pushed out, that was clear. They absolutely took the cheap and easy way out and the results show it.

A problem is that not enough people thought we “sucked”. That includes a LOT of people here who were fervently making excuses for the last several years of Boeheim’s tenure (scholarship loss, early draft entries, transfers, facilities, sun spots, Aquarius being in retrograde, etc.).

We made a couple Sweet Sixteen runs so a bunch of influential folks thought all was hunky dory.

 

[Scooch]

I said it at the time and I’ll repeat it again now… I believe the decision makers felt they needed to follow the legend with an SU guy.

Here’s why (again, I said this in March of 2023)… if you hire outside the family and that guy fails, then you’ve burned a bunch of bridges with alums and boosters who wanted a family hire. Winning them back would be difficult.

If you hire Red then those people are placated. If he fails (and boy oh boy did he fail) then you have free rein to hire anyone from anywhere as his replacement. Yes this meant burning 3 years. But it may have preserved more relationships (read: $$$) for the long term.

 

[Brooky03]

Continuity hires are common, but usually those happen when a program is still doing well. We sucked when JB retired/was pushed out, that was clear. They absolutely took the cheap and easy way out and the results show it.

The reason why we sucked I’m sure played a factor, which was because JB got old and lazy and didn’t care to recruit anymore, not because he didn’t operate a program that could coach and develop players. If they thought a continuity hire was the best bet to keep donor money and a younger guy would recruit better, a continuity hire would make sense. They didn’t account for Red being a poor on-court coach. To that point, if Gerry was the Hall of Fame coaches pick, Idk why they chose to override that based on… seniority? If you’re going to do the cheap and easy thing, at least fully commit to it.

 

[Scooch]

The reason why we sucked I’m sure played a factor, which was because JB got old and lazy and didn’t care to recruit anymore, not because he didn’t operate a program that could coach and develop players. If they thought a continuity hire was the best bet to keep donor money and a younger guy would recruit better, a continuity hire would make sense. They didn’t account for Red being a poor on-court coach. To that point, if Gerry was the Hall of Fame coaches pick, Idk why they chose to override that based on… seniority? If you’re going to do the cheap and easy thing, at least fully commit to it.

Unfortunately it’s not just that Autry is a poor on court coach. He’s also horrible at running a program. The guy couldn’t have botched the fundraising/NIL/roster construction any worse in the offseason before last. IMHO that was a firable offense.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

A problem is that not enough people thought we “sucked”. That includes a LOT of people here who were fervently making excuses for the last several years of Boeheim’s tenure (scholarship loss, early draft entries, transfers, facilities, sun spots, Aquarius being in retrograde, etc.).

We made a couple Sweet Sixteen runs so a bunch of influential folks thought all was hunky dory.

And a Final Four a couple years prior to that. The program was still making the school money. People were making excuses and thought the program would rebound.

No doubt, most people (or at least most smart people) wanted a nationwide search. It was almost universally agreed that it was time for JAB to go. But, it's easy to see that he still wanted to be king. The school took the "easy" way out. Red moved one seat over, and the program continued.

Not everyone was happy with the hire. There were lots of other names being thrown out, but Jay Wright or Rick Pitino or Brad Stevens weren't coming to coach here.

So, Syracuse did a Syracuse thing. They hired someone internally. It didn't work out. Wildhack is already on record about the meaningful games. Fortunately, the ACC has a lot of bad teams, so if we make the ACCT, it's not going to be that we deserve it, but because these other teams are worse than us.

Only a few more weeks and then we can move on and hopefully it's not too much longer, that Wildhack will be introducing the next head coach.

 

[FloridaCuse]

H"At the time," JB had already been mouthing off that ENTIRE YEAR, and had garnered a significant amount of coverage from the sports media every time he said something controversial.

Yes, that was the year where JB gave a post-game interview in the corrider after the game at B.C. to ESPN's and SU Alum Pete Thamel where he said he'll retire when HE decides to retire implying no one else will decide that. Posters on here asked: Who the heck is Pete Thamel and why did JB give him an interview. I knew who Pete Thamel was and his connection to SU (3 year sports editor of the Daily Orange) and I assumed had known JB for years. So that's when I stopped being just a lurker on here and became a member. My very first post was explaining to this Board who Pete Thamel is and why JB would have given him that interview. I guess it might have been that interview with JB "mouthing off" about deciding his own fate that might have stuck in the craw of the Chancellor and maybe later when KS thought that the NCAA might be snooping around about a certain supporter of the program that he might have said -- enough, we're not going on probation for a 3rd time.

I agree that JB wanted to stay around the Athletic Dept. and wanted a role, and an office where he could hang out. Maybe Julie just didn't want him at home all the time. And yes, making nice with him after retiring him may have played a role leading to JW hiring someone from the program. (Some on here have stated that Autry being his successor had been long decided.) Too bad he choose the wrong one though, even though it would have been hard to choose someone else.

 

[FloridaCuse]

My only quibble is that I firmly believe hiring Autry was a key component in getting JB to "retire". I believe the two things were very much linked, not that JB was forced out and then Red was hired.

If not for coercing JB to step down by hiring one of his guys to follow him, JB would have refused and forced SU to fire him. There wouldn't have been a gracious transfer of power. There would have been a press conference about SU terminating their legendary HC. There would have been endless news cycles of former players trashing the school.

We can debate if that was the right approach, but it seems clear to me that SU did not want that kind of press, so they did what they did.

Make no mistake -- JB was made to retire. But they did try to put a lot of lipstick on that pig.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Sht really hit the fan when we jettisoned certain players to bring in Jimmy Jr. That was the fork in the body that effectively ended JB’s tenure. We could have had a good team had we just returned the previous seasons roster intact and added Swider to replace Alan Griffin. The fact that was allowed to happen was ridiculous. They allowed JB to dig his own grave for a family party.

 

[cusefan88]

Sht really hit the fan when we jettisoned certain players to bring in Jimmy Jr. That was the fork in the body that effectively ended JB’s tenure. We could have had a good team had we just returned the previous seasons roster intact and added Swider to replace Alan Griffin. The fact that was allowed to happen was ridiculous. They allowed JB to dig his own grave for a family party.

Kadary, Buddy, Joe, Swider, Guerrier, Jesse would have been a really interesting core in 2022.

 

[Orangezoo]

And a Final Four a couple years prior to that. The program was still making the school money. People were making excuses and thought the program would rebound.

No doubt, most people (or at least most smart people) wanted a nationwide search. It was almost universally agreed that it was time for JAB to go. But, it's easy to see that he still wanted to be king. The school took the "easy" way out. Red moved one seat over, and the program continued.

Not everyone was happy with the hire. There were lots of other names being thrown out, but Jay Wright or Rick Pitino or Brad Stevens weren't coming to coach here.

So, Syracuse did a Syracuse thing. They hired someone internally. It didn't work out. Wildhack is already on record about the meaningful games. Fortunately, the ACC has a lot of bad teams, so if we make the ACCT, it's not going to be that we deserve it, but because these other teams are worse than us.

Only a few more weeks and then we can move on and hopefully it's not too much longer, that Wildhack will be introducing the next head coach.

There are a flurry of what ifs this year tossed around in terms of what could have been in Vegas but one of the more interesting to me is that of what may have happened if the NIL situation with Jesse went differently and that team had him to pair with what would have been a more talented complete team than even this year. It’s possible with Jesse that team could have made the tournament as essentially a carryover from JB and then really complicated things further than where we are now.

College sports are broken /changed forever no matter what but we effectively had reached the hard cut off point to bring in what we hope is the next JB for our program ( in terms of a winning coach who will field top 20 program and title contender.. not a legend or someone who would even mean more or equal to JB). At this juncture that’s all we have to lean into given the mess this program is.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Sht really hit the fan when we jettisoned certain players to bring in Jimmy Jr. That was the fork in the body that effectively ended JB’s tenure. We could have had a good team had we just returned the previous seasons roster intact and added Swider to replace Alan Griffin. The fact that was allowed to happen was ridiculous. They allowed JB to dig his own grave for a family party.

JB leaving had nothing to do with the basketball played on the court.

 

[Dcuse]

Yes, and taking a step back and looking at it rationally, when you begin a coaching search, names often get leaked to the press.

We know the Autry hiring was dictated by JB, not the result of a search. It was also the cheap option, although they apparently over-paid to hire an unproven coach.

I don't recall many names getting leaked in the press before Fran was hired. There were a couple coaches that were mentioned on this board, but never anything public. That tells me that they didn't get too far in the process with other candidates. We didn't have anyone turn us down. And, again, we hired a guy with no head coaching experience, probably for about half the price of a proven head coach.

"We know the Autry hiring was dictated by JB"


We were told here that JB lobbied for Gerry.... not Autry.

 

[RF2044]

The conjecture here is bananas, lol.

The well wasn’t poisoned. They did what senior leadership tends to do in these situations (in my corporate world experience. YMMV); they gave an internal guy a shot because it was a) cheap b) easy c) worked in the past and just generally tends to work out well enough. That’s it. I know everybody here is an insider with the whole scoop and all the knowledge of the inner working and yada yada, but the JB/BoT strong arm stuff and AD with his hands tied seems drastically exaggerated, at the very least.

Was JB kicking and screaming? Yeah, probably. Did he have friends on the BoT? Of course. Was there some influence by them? Yup. But the bottom line is a continuity hire is not at all uncommon in these scenarios and far from crazy. It was ultimately the wrong decision. Win some lose some.

A continuity hire IS bananas when the program is failing / struggling.

Why would anyone want continuity with decline? Why would you hire one of the architects of said decline, who was unproven / had no track record as a HC / was not a desired candidate by other schools?

To maintain continuity with the worst 8 year stretch in ~45 years? To keep our "streak" of losing 12+ to ames every season?