Focus should be to resurrect recruiting

[Cusefan0307]

the recruit we lost to Nova was Hart. he had issues on a visit. Go figure.

we have been successful in the past with 4 year players like: triche, southerland, scoop, kris joseph, rick jacokson, andy rautins, etc. guys who knew the program and the zone. we need to start doing that.

if lydon, thompson and battle all come back, than we have that foundation next year

and we are an ncaa program, not an nit program

Donte Divencenzo. Villanova's 6th man. We were looking at him for a while. He visited here. Grew up in Cooney's backyard. We took Kaleb.

 

[RF2044]

Last year was the first time I can ever remember in recruiting that we didn't have the bulk of our guys signed in November. We can't do that every year. It's a recipe for decline, because it's not the top 20 guys who we have a shot at who remain unsigned, it's the left-overs.

Agreed. It wasn't that long ago that we'd have our entire class locked up nearly a year before the players would sign. Which in turn allowed the coaching staff the luxury of focusing on the junior class early, and building strong relationships with THAT class.

Feels like we've been chasing our tail these past two classes just trying to fill them. And that formula that was so effective above has flipped 180 degrees.

 

[Francis03]

THIS ^^^^ X2

Whose the board recruiting expert? Have we found another Mason?

I haven't followed recruiting much the last 4 years or so. Is it really this bad in 2018 as well?

 

[tbonezone]

it's march . billy owens ain't walking thru that door next season .

 

[Newhouser]

At least we are done with losing half our staff to the Olympics.

 

[IthacaMatt]

At least we are done with losing half our staff to the Olympics.

You would think that Mike, at least, has been keeping his eye on the ball and thinking about his future. You can't blame JB; although he might not be going willingly, he does have one foot out the door, and his kids going off to play in college.

 

[CuseTG2003]

At least we are done with losing half our staff to the Olympics.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but Hop really should've stayed home last summer.

I really think our recruiting will struggle until Hop's HC. Kid's want stability and continuity, and our transition will always fall short relative to what other programs have to offer regardless of how well thought out the transition is. Throw in the zone factor, which I think is bigger than most realize or admit, and there's another reason to start the Hop era ASAP. I also think it's to Hop's benefit to have expectations low for his first season, and next season provides that. Who knows, maybe he overachieves next season w/ a ragtag team, and recruiting picks up because he's finally the guy. I don't think it's gonna happen, but man, I wish it would.

 

[RF2044]

Here are some things that absolutely have to change IMO with respect to recruiting and the program in general:

• Stop sacrificing basketball skill for size -- bring in guys who can PLAY
• The bullet point above is especially true for point guards
• Need to stop capping the roster at 11, and start filling classes so that we have a full roster to work with every year
• Recruit more four year guys, and supplement that nucleus with a sprinkle of higher rated recruits
• Get a big man coach in the fold who knows what the hell they are doing
• While you're at it, bring in a bulldog recruiter AC who can turn the titanic quickly
• Bring in 2 wings every year--these guys should be able to handle AND shoot. No reason for us not to have a bounty of such players
• Emphasize team ball handling more, which will in turn diversify our offense -- enough with being so one-dimensional
• Scrap the 100% zone system, and let the athletes do their thing
• If all else fails, make sure that our roster is chock full of backcourt talent. Having superior guards is a major, major advantage at the collegiate level

 

[Cusefan0307]

We haven't had a true PG and true SF since 13-14(CJ/Ennis). In our system that's not a recipe for winning.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Here are some things that absolutely have to change IMO with respect to recruiting and the program in general:

• Stop sacrificing basketball skill for size -- bring in guys who can PLAY
• The bullet point above is especially true for point guards
• Need to stop capping the roster at 11, and start filling classes so that we have a full roster to work with every year
• Recruit more four year guys, and supplement that nucleus with a sprinkle of higher rated recruits
• Get a big man coach in the fold who knows what the hell they are doing
• Bring in 2 wings every year--these guys should be able to handle AND shoot. No reason for us not to have a bounty of such players
• Emphasize team ball handling more, which will in turn diversify our offense -- enough with being so one-dimensional
• Scrap the 100% zone system, and let the athletes do their thing
• If all else fails, make sure that our roster is chock full of backcourt talent. Having superior guards is a major, major advantage at the collegiate level

This times a million

I have been completely against our recruiting philosophy of size over skill for a few years, but we're really seeing issues rear their head now and it's getting worse.

We should be bringing in talented guards that have developed offensive skills. That's what college basketball is all about now. You need quality guards, guys that can handle and shoot it.

Don't forget to add that we need to actually get out and start grinding more. We need to expand our horizons beyond I-95.

We shouldn't be having such an issue putting together a full roster EVERY DAMN YEAR. We'll be in that position again this spring/summer, and unless things start changing, probably again the following year.

 

[Edfromsodus]

I haven't posted in a while here. I am a frequent caller on local call-in radio shows. Many of you would probably recognize my on-air name if I said it here but I'm going to hold off. I just want to say that I am extremely worried about the state of the program going forward. Our recruiting has taken a severe downturn over these last few years. We aren't getting the recruits we are used to or what is needed to compete for a conference regular season or tourney title.

Look at the recruiting class we had a few years ago compared to Duke. I realize there are other teams out there, and we're not just recruiting against Duke. The thing is, they reload, but we can't seem to do that anymore. For example, they got Grayson Allen, Okafor, Winslow, Tyus Jones. We got Kaleb Joseph and Chris McCullough. Seriously? Guys from Jersey and NYC are not coming here with some occasional exceptions. I'm just saying that I'm extremely worried about where things are headed. Hopkins has me worried as well. I think that he could be used against us on the recruiting trail. Idk, maybe I'm rambling here. I'm a die hard fan. I've followed them to both recent Final Fours. I came into this season so excited and now look at us... couldn't even make the tourney. I'm unbelievably disappointed.

We are not Duke. We are more like a Maryland or Villanova. Just relax, we'll be fine and continue to win 20-25 games most seasons.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Here are some things that absolutely have to change IMO with respect to recruiting and the program in general:

• Stop sacrificing basketball skill for size -- bring in guys who can PLAY
• The bullet point above is especially true for point guards
• Need to stop capping the roster at 11, and start filling classes so that we have a full roster to work with every year
• Recruit more four year guys, and supplement that nucleus with a sprinkle of higher rated recruits
• Get a big man coach in the fold who knows what the hell they are doing
• Bring in 2 wings every year--these guys should be able to handle AND shoot. No reason for us not to have a bounty of such players
• Emphasize team ball handling more, which will in turn diversify our offense -- enough with being so one-dimensional
• Scrap the 100% zone system, and let the athletes do their thing
• If all else fails, make sure that our roster is chock full of backcourt talent. Having superior guards is a major, major advantage at the collegiate level

Wait we intentionally cap the roster? Even with the reduced scholarships?

People love to point to the FF run last year as a big accomplishment, and it absolutely was. But let's not forget we won both the gonzaga and Virginia games not because our vaunted "zone defense", but our press! We unleashed our athletes to make defensive plays. That won us the game.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I've posted this before, but outside of the big 2 of UK and Duke, all other peer schools seem to throw out a ton of offers - just a guess - but it looks like 3 to 5 times as many spots that they have open. SU in the last few years has been offering fewer than 10 kids for 4-5 spots. That's expecting a nearly 50% success rate, which is really difficult to hit for a school other than UK/Duke. They had 12-14 offers out this year, so far, and as many as 5 spots open (and a couple were questionable or at least non-starters. Thompson and O'Connell were never coming here). Miami had ~24 offers out for 4-5 openings. Louisville (under threat of NCAA sanctions in addition to self-imposed sanctions) had 22 offers out for 4 spots. Arizona had 24 offers out for 4-6 spots. It's a numbers game for sure.

 

[721Comstock]

I've posted this before, but outside of the big 2 of UK and Duke, all other peer schools seem to throw out a ton of offers - just a guess - but it looks like 3 to 5 times as many spots that they have open. SU in the last few years has been offering fewer than 10 kids for 4-5 spots. That's expecting a nearly 50% success rate, which is really difficult to hit for a school other than UK/Duke. They had 12-14 offers out this year, so far, and as many as 5 spots open (and a couple were questionable or at least non-starters. Thompson and O'Connell were never coming here). Miami had ~24 offers out for 4-5 openings. Louisville (under threat of NCAA sanctions in addition to self-imposed sanctions) had 22 offers out for 4 spots. Arizona had 24 offers out for 4-6 spots. It's a numbers game for sure.

Meanwhile, UConn had 347 offers out, and Indiana had 159.

 

[RF2044]

I've posted this before, but outside of the big 2 of UK and Duke, all other peer schools seem to throw out a ton of offers - just a guess - but it looks like 3 to 5 times as many spots that they have open. SU in the last few years has been offering fewer than 10 kids for 4-5 spots. That's expecting a nearly 50% success rate, which is really difficult to hit for a school other than UK/Duke. They had 12-14 offers out this year, so far, and as many as 5 spots open (and a couple were questionable or at least non-starters. Thompson and O'Connell were never coming here). Miami had ~24 offers out for 4-5 openings. Louisville (under threat of NCAA sanctions in addition to self-imposed sanctions) had 22 offers out for 4 spots. Arizona had 24 offers out for 4-6 spots. It's a numbers game for sure.

See, I don't view it as a numbers game with offers so much as a sign that those schools approach filling those spots is to actively recruit a large number of players, not just a couple. Arizona et al work those kids until things start to fall into place, then they hone in.

When you only concentrate on a couple, you get left holding the bag if they don't reciprocate and / or if they don't make the cut. I would have much rather have had 3-4 other players we could fall back on if Quade Green / Brandon Randolph didn't pan out. We'd be in a much better spot with respect to the class of 2017 if that was how we approached things, instead of going all in on a small group.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I don't view it as a numbers game with offers

I didn't mean to imply that it was like random chance, but yeah, I agree with your post. SU can't just offer a handful of kids that they've been following since 9th grade and when the top ones commit to UK or Duke, be like damn, now what?

 

[NKR1978]

The last time we had a real recruiting downturn (Greg Davis! James Thues!) we pushed Orr out and hired Troy Weaver and cut down the nets a few years later. The sanctions have obviously hit harder than many thought they would, but those will end soon and we need to get out of the SU family and hire a stud recruiter.

 

[Caboose]

We are not Duke. We are more like a Maryland or Villanova. Just relax, we'll be fine and continue to win 20-25 games most seasons.

No way, I disagree with this. True, we are not Duke, UK, or UNC, but this is not football either. We have top notch facilities in the Carmelo Center and one of the best venues to play in along with top two crowd size every year. There are several problems contributing to our recent decline, and pretty much all of them have been awesomely layed out by some great posts in here. The problems are not because we're Syracuse and we're not attractive enough to blue chippers.

We are below Duke and UNC in terms of appeal, but we are not at the same level as Maryland, or Villanova, no way. Villanova has Jay Wright, and they don't have a gimmick defense and an incoming coach with no head coaching experience. We need to fix what we can tangibly fix and regularly bring in the top recruits we started sprinkling in after Melo left, i.e. Waiters, McCullough, Fab Melo, Battle, Richardson, Ennis etc. While also filling out the roster with four year guys like the Amile Jeffersons (Duke stole away), Rick Jacksons, Kris Josephs, James Southerlands, Arinze Onuakus, etc of the world. If nothing else, I've had expectations that we would improve on our recruiting since joining the ACC. I expect more than this.

 

[Edfromsodus]

No way, I disagree with this. True, we are not Duke, UK, or UNC, but this is not football either. We have top notch facilities in the Carmelo Center and one of the best venues to play in along with top two crowd size every year. There are several problems contributing to our recent decline, and pretty much all of them have been awesomely layed out by some great posts in here. The problems are not because we're Syracuse and we're not attractive enough to blue chippers.

We are below Duke and UNC in terms of appeal, but we are not at the same level as Maryland, or Villanova, no way. Villanova has Jay Wright, and they don't have a gimmick defense and an incoming coach with no head coaching experience. We need to fix what we can tangibly fix and regularly bring in the top recruits we started sprinkling in after Melo left, i.e. Waiters, McCullough, Fab Melo, Battle, Richardson, Ennis etc. While also filling out the roster with four year guys like the Amile Jeffersons (Duke stole away), Rick Jacksons, Kris Josephs, James Southerlands, Arinze Onuakus, etc of the world. If nothing else, I've had expectations that we would improve on our recruiting since joining the ACC. I expect more than this.

The melo center is nice, but most big time schools have a melo center.

We have beeen getting great recruits, just not keeping them for more than a year.

I would like to see more players like Lydon and Moyer. 2-4 year players. Huerta from Maryland wanted to come here, but the staff wanted to redshirt him.

 

[RF2044]

The melo center is nice, but most big time schools have a melo center.

We have beeen getting great recruits, just not keeping them for more than a year.

I would like to see more players like Lydon and Moyer. 2-4 year players. Huerta from Maryland wanted to come here, but the staff wanted to redshirt him.

The highlighted part above is not remotely accurate. HuertER was interested in coming here, but the staff prioritized Tyus Battle over him. And due to the NCAA imposed scholarship restrictions, we couldn't take both. So we pitched the idea to the Huerter clan about potentially taking a prep year, to reclassify to the class of 2017 when we'd have a scholarship to sign him. Not surprisingly, with a bunch of offers to choose from, Huerter balked at that idea.

Huerter would have been great to land. But Battle is a better player. I just wish that they'd found a way to take both, given the roster attrition we had. Huerter could have had the scholie designated for Thomas Bryant.

 

[Caboose]

The highlighted part above is not remotely accurate. HuertER was interested in coming here, but the staff prioritized Tyus Battle over him. And due to the NCAA imposed scholarship restrictions, we couldn't take both. So we pitched the idea to the Huerter clan about potentially taking a prep year, to reclassify to the class of 2017 when we'd have a scholarship to sign him. Not surprisingly, with a bunch of offers to choose from, Huerter balked at that idea.

Huerter would have been great to land. But Battle is a better player. I just wish that they'd found a way to take both, given the roster attrition we had. Huerter could have had the scholie designated for Thomas Bryant.

Great points. I've felt for a while now that Thomas Bryant was a HUGE setback. I've made it clear to those I've spoken with that his decision really hurt us. How would you rank the following decisions in terms of impacting the program, from least to worst? ... McCullough leaving early, Ennis leaving early, Kaleb Joseph recruitment/coming in at PG, Thomas Bryant choosing Indiana. To those who mention the sanctions, I get it and I realize they had an impact and made things tougher for the program.

I think most would say Ennis leaving early hurt the program most, but to my earlier point the Thomas Bryant decision is right there with Ennis. I think Thomas Bryant on this squad would have been the difference between going 18-14 and 25-7. He would have been great for us in the paint. I was very upset when he decided to play for that clown Crean.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Bryant picking Indiana hasn't worked out for him either.

 

[RF2044]

Great points. I've felt for a while now that Thomas Bryant was a HUGE setback. I've made it clear to those I've spoken with that his decision really hurt us. How would you rank the following decisions in terms of impacting the program, from least to worst? ... McCullough leaving early, Ennis leaving early, Kaleb Joseph recruitment/coming in at PG, Thomas Bryant choosing Indiana. To those who mention the sanctions, I get it and I realize they had an impact and made things tougher for the program.

I think most would say Ennis leaving early hurt the program most, but to my earlier point the Thomas Bryant decision is right there with Ennis. I think Thomas Bryant on this squad would have been the difference between going 18-14 and 25-7. He would have been great for us in the paint. I was very upset when he decided to play for that clown Crean.

If you ask me, losing out on Thomas Bryant when his mother was so dead-set on him coming here was the most impactful. Bryant is a guy who probably will be a first round pick this June. He would have stepped right in at center and solidified what has been our weakest position these past two years, and provide improved interior defense. Just adding him alone to the teams we've had these past two years would have been an immense improvement--he would have singlehandedly solved both teams' biggest problem just by himself.

Next for me would be Ennis leaving early. Add an experienced Ennis to that 2014 - 2015 squad, and I think they'd be a 25 win caliber team. Maybe Rak wouldn't have developed as much--we'll never know--but that team only lacked quality PG play, and Ennis would have rectified that.

Third to me is Kaleb Joseph busting. Right, wrong, or indifferent -- this was the guy that the staff handpicked to bring in, over several other quality prospects [like Ja'Quan Newton]. Him not being ready to start as a frosh wouldn't have been as big of a deal if he'd developed, which he did not. Him busting was a huge problem for a limited roster with limited scholarships to fill.

Tough for me to get too down about McCullough being a one-and-done. Everyone including the coaches knew that was his trajectory. Wish he hadn't gotten hurt; that would have also improved the 14-15 team's chances.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

We should just have a lottery like drawing. Select only the number of recruits for whom we have open positions from list of top 100 bb hs candidates. Tell the winning recruits they won. They will be think that because they won something special, they will be psychologically induced to immediately sign a LOI!

 

[cuse522]

One thing that people may not think about tying into recruiting, but it will help, is not relying on only 7 guys and playing 2-3 of them 35+ minutes. The last time we balanced the playing time a little more was 11-12. Every year since then, at least two players have averaged 35+ minutes. So when a recruit hears that they're going to have a chance to compete for a starting job, if they look at our stats the last few years, they may realize (or be told by other coaches) that they're either going to win it and get 35 minutes or lose it and get next to nothing. This could be a huge deal to a kid like Waters if we don't guarantee that we won't take a grad transfer. Realistically, our best path forward right now would be Waters + Grad Transfer, one of them ends up playing 25-30 minutes a night, the other gets 10-15, maybe with both on the floor together for a couple minutes if warranted. If he's basically guaranteed 15 minutes with a shot at 25-30, that's a better proposition than 35 or nothing, isn't it?

More balanced playing time also opens up some flexibility in what sort of defense they play once Hop takes over, and in keeping program guys. Some of the kids who transfer may stay if they were seeing even a few more minutes and had a realistic chance of getting 15+ a game their junior years. Defensively, if you don't recruit exclusively for zone and have four or five guys who can play it, you can play it while they're on the floor... And if you balance the playing time it makes it easier to do that.

Those are two of the things I'm really hoping change when Hop takes over, even though I'm nervous about the transition overall.