Focus should be to resurrect recruiting

[MarketCuse]

Not even filling out the scholarships really bothers me. It's kind of funny in an ironic sort of way that we have some of our recruits banned lower, and we couldnt even fill that lower number of scholarships. That is pathetic!

THIS ^^^^ X2

Understandable if we had a stable coming in next year!

Hopefully the kids graduating in the coming years were too young to know about the Fine fiasco. That's what we are dealing with I believe.

That and USA Basketball.

Whose the board recruiting expert? Have we found another Mason?

I haven't followed recruiting much the last 4 years or so. Is it really this bad in 2018 as well?

 

[MarketCuse]

Why limit ourself to a small region? There is talent across the country, why cut ourselves off to all of it when our biggest rivals and peers are going cross country.

We're not a small time school, it's time to stop acting like one.

This local only is a relatively new trend, I still believe we will get past this and I think our trouble now was because of fine and the 'investigation' aka witch hunt.

Kids in middle and high school don't generally react well to the press we've had in the last 5-6 years. Fine news broke 6 yrs ago that would mean 7th graders then are seniors now.

Hopkins has gotta bring in a huge class next year to reestablish ourselves.

 

[Zepharus]

2017 is basically toast. Our hope lies in the 2018 recruiting class. Blow 2018 and we are in BIG BIG trouble. Hopkins wont likely survive this as JB steps away. The fan based expects NCAA at the very least. just get there and well shut up. NIT doesn't cut it. When Green boned us, that was it. Green could have meant Bamba as well. None of it happened. Next years outlook is dismal at best. Take this team, minus the three (Lydon aint stayin) players that got us to an 18-14 NIT bid, add in two unheralded freshman at positions less critically needed and a spent Boeheim. 17-18 is not going to be pretty. As a die hard fan Im close to panic mode

 

[newmexicuse]

2017 is basically toast. Our hope lies in the 2018 recruiting class. Blow 2018 and we are in BIG BIG trouble. Hopkins wont likely survive this as JB steps away. The fan based expects NCAA at the very least. just get there and well shut up. NIT doesn't cut it. When Green boned us, that was it. Green could have meant Bamba as well. None of it happened. Next years outlook is dismal at best. Take this team, minus the three (Lydon aint stayin) players that got us to an 18-14 NIT bid, add in two unheralded freshman at positions less critically needed and a spent Boeheim. 17-18 is not going to be pretty. As a die hard fan Im close to panic mode

It is almost impossible to see how the incoming class can end up upgrading the talent from this year's mediocre team. That being said, it can be a solid foundation class of three or four year guys who who will lead the resurrection of the program. We have two bigs who can be players down the road. If we get Washington, he should be a steady program player & maybe a two year starter down the road.

To the point of OP, I agree wirh the general point, but not with the example. At the time Joseph and McCulloch were big time gets. KJ simply didn't have it. McCulloch was a one & done from the get go. The problem was he got hurt & didn't give us a full season. You can say the staff mis-evaluated joseph's potential, but that is hindsight. He was a concensus Top 50 kid, and i admit, from his HS vids, I thought he was going to be a star. That class looked very good at the time.

Maybe a bigger issue is how they missed so badly on Howard. He was a risk coming off of injury, but i am talking about his head and his heart, not his skills.

Also, a big issue is how they cast aside a kid like BJ who we already had.

 

[Caboose]

Why limit ourself to a small region? There is talent across the country, why cut ourselves off to all of it when our biggest rivals and peers are going cross country.

We're not a small time school, it's time to stop acting like one.

This is a great point that I have made many times on the radio airwaves and in private conversations. I think the exclusive use of the zone has no doubt deterred many elite recruits from coming here over the years. I have actually posed this question to Hop during his call-in shows. His response was encouraging in that he intimated he would not exclusively use the zone like Boeheim does. Still, I am not thrilled that we are handing the reigns to an assistant coach with no head-coaching experience. I love Hop. Great guy, great role model, personality, all that, but this is a business decision that I don't completely agree with. I kind of wish Hop took that USC job a few years back.

Let me put this out there... by no means am I saying any of these coaches would come here, but would you be more optimistic if we opened up a coaching search and had a shot at guys like: Jay Wright, Travis Ford, Chris Holtmann, (insert name of an excellent mid major coach with strong recruiting skills). I heard a Jay Wright rumor at one point, but I have no idea where it came from or how strong it was. Obviously nothing much. My point is, I would be much more excited if a proven coach were coming in here... kinda like I was when Dino Babers came in. Looking forward to a big year from Dungey btw.

 

[Caboose]

It is almost impossible to see how the incoming class can end up upgrading the talent from this year's mediocre team. That being said, it can be a solid foundation class of three or four year guys who who will lead the resurrection of the program. We have two bigs who can be players down the road. If we get Washington, he should be a steady program player & maybe a two year starter down the road.

To the point of OP, I agree wirh the general point, but not with the example. At the time Joseph and McCulloch were big time gets. KJ simply didn't have it. McCulloch was a one & done from the get go. The problem was he got hurt & didn't give us a full season. You can say the staff mis-evaluated joseph's potential, but that is hindsight. He was a concensus Top 50 kid, and i admit, from his HS vids, I thought he was going to be a star. That class looked very good at the time.

Maybe a bigger issue is how they missed so badly on Howard. He was a risk coming off of injury, but i am talking about his head and his heart, not his skills.

Also, a big issue is how they cast aside a kid like BJ who we already had.

I see what you're saying but we are missing on a lot of recruits these days. I look at guys like Amile Jefferson, who went to Hakim Warrick's high school. I thought for sure he was coming here. Nope, chose Duke. Perfect four-year guy too. With McCullough, yes he was a one and done guy, but in general we aren't cracking the top 20 like we need to and getting guys like him with regularity. We basically need to find the right mix of 2nd tier talent to elevate the program again, unless we can get some of the elite blue chips at the top. As stated previously in this thread, I am hoping that by opening up the defense with a new coach, exclusive use of the zone won't hurt us on the recruiting trail like I am sure it has.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It is almost impossible to see how the incoming class can end up upgrading the talent from this year's mediocre team.

They can do it, but they need to actually win some recruiting battles. As it stands right now, I think getting Keene as a PG is going to be tough. Duke and Kansas are both looking as well. And rumor has it that Michigan will be a suitor as well. Kansas picked up, I think , both Frank Mason and Devonte Graham after they had committed to other schools. I'm not sure if Waters is on the team's radar or a possibility, but he's out there. I think there will be plenty of options. Ideally, SU picks up a solid PG (or 2), a combo guard, and starting SF. There will be shots available for anyone with talent and skills.

 

[tbonezone]

what is most troubling to me is the fact that we are Syracuse , we play in the ACC in front of the largest crowds in college basketball and THE PLAYING TIME IS THERE ! you're not going to come in and sit .
and still we are missing on the major talents. we should be a magnet school (no that that kind devos)

 

[orangecuse]

Not even filling out the scholarships really bothers me. It's kind of funny in an ironic sort of way that we have some of our recruits banned lower, and we couldnt even fill that lower number of scholarships. That is pathetic!

No doubt. It's a great argument though for the ones that use the recruiting sanctions as a significant reason for our recent mediocrity. Not only have we not fulfilled our reduced allotment to begin with, several players we did bring here are no longer on the team, with another apparently soon to depart. That is 100% on the coaches.

 

[81South]

Can we copy the formula that Brey has at ND? Lower tier guys who stay for 4 years and are able to compete at a pretty high level. I would sign up for that.

 

[pfister1]

Why limit ourself to a small region? There is talent across the country, why cut ourselves off to all of it when our biggest rivals and peers are going cross country.

We're not a small time school, it's time to stop acting like one.

Because we need to get our act together in areas where we have traditionally been strong and that should be the easiest to reestablish ourselves in first. Once we've done that I am good with spreading our wings, but we aren't even winning recruiting battles in our own back yard right now. Bryant/Heurter/Green

We don't need to recruit against Duke, we may never be on a recruiting level with Duke and UNC. But we should be capable of bringing in classes that are at least as strong as what Nova is hauling in and they are starting to leave us in their dust.

Spread yourself too thin by trying to recruit everywhere and we'll end up with a lot of mediocre results.

 

[gilardino]

the recruit we lost to Nova was Hart. he had issues on a visit. Go figure.

we have been successful in the past with 4 year players like: triche, southerland, scoop, kris joseph, rick jacokson, andy rautins, etc. guys who knew the program and the zone. we need to start doing that.

if lydon, thompson and battle all come back, than we have that foundation next year

and we are an ncaa program, not an nit program

 

[HoustonCuse]

Because we need to get our act together in areas where we have traditionally been strong and that should be the easiest to reestablish ourselves in first. Once we've done that I am good with spreading our wings, but we aren't even winning recruiting battles in our own back yard right now. Bryant/Heurter/Green

We don't need to recruit against Duke, we may never be on a recruiting level with Duke and UNC. But we should be capable of bringing in classes that are at least as strong as what Nova is hauling in and they are starting to leave us in their dust.

Spread yourself too thin by trying to recruit everywhere and we'll end up with a lot of mediocre results.

Exactly what I was saying.

Reading through this thread, everyone is just in raw panic. We missed on Green specifically and several other major prospects in general this past summer and everyone is going absolutely batty. Once again, I am not saying everything is perfect, but you guys are trying to be so black and white with this. We need to consolidate and get back to getting the guys we want from the northeast. Baltimore on up. Like we did 4 - 5 years ago. We need to establish an Ontario pipeline. Right now Oregon has more Ontario players than we do. Need to lock that up.

As a fanbase, we are going to have to realize that if there are tough times coming, and by definition the coaching change qualifies: we are going to have to get our heads right. It is flagging fan support that sinks programs just as much as 100% zone does. We have half our die hards (people on this site are our die hards) claiming they refuse to support the team because they are in the NIT. We have them cannibalizing our coaching staff because Quade Green decided to screw Gerry. We have people saying that the sanctions - the worst ever doled out - should be of zero impediment to our recruiting. Its absolutely nuts. On top of all that, anything positive in the program is being dismissed as a fluke while any perceived possible future negative is amplified to catastrophic levels even before it materializes. Our recruiting is so bad that we have 5 straight years of first round draft picks. Our team is so mediocre that we have an active two game win streak against Duke - who, by the way, was claimed to have the single greatest recruiting class/returning core of any team in the past 10 - 15 years this year.

Everyone with a brain knows the sanctions have hurt, both materially because of what we have lost and because of the very negative perception it attaches to our program. Guys, our program is known just as much for harboring child abusers and letting the players smoke dope than we are for being a good basketball team. If you think that is something easy to overcome, and so its fine to just blame Gerry Mac for not bringing in 3 5-star guys last summer while the HOF HC is out of the country, you clearly aren't interested in reality. Do the coaches bear responsibility for those sanctions and the perception of the program - yes they do. But in light of what has happened since 2010, this program should be a smoking hole in the ground. The staff has navigated that while also producing some of the best years in the program's history. We wound up short of the NCAA by one game this year. Boo hoo. Get real and stop whining.

 

[Alsacs]

Exactly what I was saying.

Reading through this thread, everyone is just in raw panic. We missed on Green specifically and several other major prospects in general this past summer and everyone is going absolutely batty. Once again, I am not saying everything is perfect, but you guys are trying to be so black and white with this. We need to consolidate and get back to getting the guys we want from the northeast. Baltimore on up. Like we did 4 - 5 years ago. We need to establish an Ontario pipeline. Right now Oregon has more Ontario players than we do. Need to lock that up.

As a fanbase, we are going to have to realize that if there are tough times coming, and by definition the coaching change qualifies: we are going to have to get our heads right. It is flagging fan support that sinks programs just as much as 100% zone does. We have half our die hards (people on this site are our die hards) claiming they refuse to support the team because they are in the NIT. We have them cannibalizing our coaching staff because Quade Green decided to screw Gerry. We have people saying that the sanctions - the worst ever doled out - should be of zero impediment to our recruiting. Its absolutely nuts. On top of all that, anything positive in the program is being dismissed as a fluke while any perceived possible future negative is amplified to catastrophic levels even before it materializes. Our recruiting is so bad that we have 5 straight years of first round draft picks. Our team is so mediocre that we have an active two game win streak against Duke - who, by the way, was claimed to have the single greatest recruiting class/returning core of any team in the past 10 - 15 years this year.

Everyone with a brain knows the sanctions have hurt, both materially because of what we have lost and because of the very negative perception it attaches to our program. Guys, our program is known just as much for harboring child abusers and letting the players smoke dope than we are for being a good basketball team. If you think that is something easy to overcome, and so its fine to just blame Gerry Mac for not bringing in 3 5-star guys last summer while the HOF HC is out of the country, you clearly aren't interested in reality. Do the coaches bear responsibility for those sanctions and the perception of the program - yes they do. But in light of what has happened since 2010, this program should be a smoking hole in the ground. The staff has navigated that while also producing some of the best years in the program's history. We wound up short of the NCAA by one game this year. Boo hoo. Get real and stop whining.

read the recruiting board. Our top recruiting nik on this board Francis is saying Mike Hopkins hasn't even gone to NJ yet to see a top 8 PG for 2018. This kid is exactly what we need and we aren't going as hard as the other elite schools recruiting him.

Our coaches are getting outworked in recruiting. These kids want love 24/7 and we aren't using our big guns. Losing kids to Duke/Kentucky happens. Being outworked by Villanova/Virginia/Arizona/Seton Hall is pathetic.

 

[HoustonCuse]

read the recruiting board. Our top recruiting nik on this board Francis is saying Mike Hopkins hasn't even gone to NJ yet to see a top 8 PG for 2018. This kid is exactly what we need and we aren't going as hard as the other elite schools recruiting him.

Our coaches are getting outworked in recruiting. These kids want love 24/7 and we aren't using our big guns. Losing kids to Duke/Kentucky happens. Being outworked by Villanova/Virginia/Arizona/Seton Hall is pathetic.

Wasn't Hopkins working his ass off trying to get the current team in shape to get an NCAA bid though?

I completely agree that JB has not had the fire for recruiting - no complaint with that take. This is the first I have heard someone accuse Hopkins of being lazy. But I am certainly will to give the guy the benefit of the doubt given what we all think the priorities should have been over the past 4 - 6 weeks.

 

[Caboose]

Are you the guy who calls into Axe's show that sounds like Emo Phillips?

Can't stand Axe. Don't listen to him. Is full of himself and rambles. Cuts callers short too often.

 

[Alsacs]

Wasn't Hopkins working his ass off trying to get the current team in shape to get an NCAA bid though?

I completely agree that JB has not had the fire for recruiting - no complaint with that take. This is the first I have heard someone accuse Hopkins of being lazy. But I am certainly will to give the guy the benefit of the doubt given what we all think the priorities should have been over the past 4 - 6 weeks.

Why has Red Autry been on the road over Hop?

Sorry but Hopkins can get down to NJ and back to Syracuse when between Louisville and Georgia Tech we had a week off.

We need a PG and still haven't sent Hopkins to see Quinerly. It's a joke.

Quinerly is a 2018 recruit. He will never play for JB. So maybe the HCIW should get his ass to see an elite PG recruit before it's too late.

 

[Deano]

the recruit we lost to Nova was Hart. he had issues on a visit. Go figure.

we have been successful in the past with 4 year players like: triche, southerland, scoop, kris joseph, rick jacokson, andy rautins, etc. guys who knew the program and the zone. we need to start doing that.

if lydon, thompson and battle all come back, than we have that foundation next year

and we are an ncaa program, not an nit program

Where the heck is Thompson going?? Sometimes your posts make no sense.

 

[dan7800]

Next year's recruiting class doesn't look great, now, but it's not over. We could still land Ayala, and with recruits you never know. At the time, Rautkins and Triche looked like they'd barely ever play.

Don't forget MM is essentially an incoming 2018 guy

 

[cuseinseattle]

It is almost impossible to see how the incoming class can end up upgrading the talent from this year's mediocre team. That being said, it can be a solid foundation class of three or four year guys who who will lead the resurrection of the program. We have two bigs who can be players down the road. If we get Washington, he should be a steady program player & maybe a two year starter down the road.

To the point of OP, I agree wirh the general point, but not with the example. At the time Joseph and McCulloch were big time gets. KJ simply didn't have it. McCulloch was a one & done from the get go. The problem was he got hurt & didn't give us a full season. You can say the staff mis-evaluated joseph's potential, but that is hindsight. He was a concensus Top 50 kid, and i admit, from his HS vids, I thought he was going to be a star. That class looked very good at the time.

Maybe a bigger issue is how they missed so badly on Howard. He was a risk coming off of injury, but i am talking about his head and his heart, not his skills.

Also, a big issue is how they cast aside a kid like BJ who we already had.

It is impossible to talk about the incoming class because there will probably be 3 more kids in it and we don't even know who they are yet. Calmer heads. I agree that recruiting is a big problem and this has been discussed the last 6 months more than any other item in my opinion. I don't think it's that we can't get kids it's a talent evaluation problem. We pass on the Brunson, Morris and Newton's of the world for Kaleb Joseph, BJ and Howard.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm worried, but I also don't want to overreact while we're dealing with NCAA penalties. Especially given that we managed a Final Four run with that going on, which should help to offset it by keeping us relevant. That said, the transition is critical and Hop better come out crushing it on the recruiting trail right away.

The NCAA penalties are effectively over. We haven't filled the roster spots that we do have with our usual caliber of player. How many guys have we let leave in recent years, when we are begging to fill 10 roster spots? We are not getting the right guys in the first place.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Next year's recruiting class doesn't look great, now, but it's not over. We could still land Ayala, and with recruits you never know. At the time, Rautkins and Triche looked like they'd barely ever play.

Don't forget MM is essentially an incoming 2018 guy

Last year was the first time I can ever remember in recruiting that we didn't have the bulk of our guys signed in November. We can't do that every year. It's a recipe for decline, because it's not the top 20 guys who we have a shot at who remain unsigned, it's the left-overs.

 

[IthacaMatt]

2017 is basically toast. Our hope lies in the 2018 recruiting class. Blow 2018 and we are in BIG BIG trouble. Hopkins wont likely survive this as JB steps away. The fan based expects NCAA at the very least. just get there and well shut up. NIT doesn't cut it.

This times 100. I can't imagine what Mike is thinking when it comes to trying to build a roster for the future. It seems to me that not only is JB not out there enough, but I don't see Mike out there like he used to be. That is very, very worrisome, because he was always our best recruiter.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Next year's recruiting class doesn't look great, now, but it's not over. We could still land Ayala, and with recruits you never know. At the time, Rautkins and Triche looked like they'd barely ever play.

Don't forget MM is essentially an incoming 2018 guy

I don't think Ayala is going to qualify for 2017. That's why an offer just went out to Howard Washington.

 

[gilardino]

Where the heck is Thompson going?? Sometimes your posts make no sense.

we need all 3 back, just saying, read more into it if you want