For the First Time EVER: Notre Dame Discusses what team is 16 in ACC

[arbitragegls]

From the S...t Notre Dame board...appearing on March 24th and still going strong...the question of who Notre Dame would want as a 16th member of the ACC. This thread OP is a Notre Dame poster and the vast majority of the posts are Notre Dame posters. Does this mean anything, probably not (more in next couple of weeks), but note that this is the first time the Notre Dame Board has brought up the subject by Notre Dame fans. It is getting interesting...nothing substantial to report at this time...but, but...feels like something is bubbling.
And guess where the Notre Dame fans come out:

• Most likely a hybrid (not that) with Navy and Georgetown...yikes, hitting the old and new BE
• Texas
• Penn State
• Vanderbilt

Wonder if fantasy has some bit of reality??? Discuss.
Go 'Cuse!


http://mbd.At their request, this n...om this site./mb.aspx?s=109&f=2594&t=11407438

 

[HtownOrange]

Thanks, Arb. I'm OK with granting ND the right to recommend their joining partner. PSU would be great (i would love the irony of the B1G getting UMD and the ACC getting PSU, small fry for big dog). I can live with Texas, that would kill off the Big 12.

 

[jasjr]

I only know Arb from this site, but he is no doubt the provider of great insight.
I have been saying this for months. Get ND involved in the decisions for the 16th team and get the deal done!!
I understand the want for Texas, it won't happen in my mind.
Don't like the hybrid option. Get Penn State and be done with it. Solidify the North East with Penn State, BC, Syr, Pitt in the ACC among all the others and slowly watch RU and CT wither away...

 

[midloviking]

I only know Arb from this site, but he is no doubt the provider of great insight.
I have been saying this for months. Get ND involved in the decisions for the 16th team and get the deal done!!
I understand the want for Texas, it won't happen in my mind.
Don't like the hybrid option. Get Penn State and be done with it. Solidify the North East with Penn State, BC, Syr, Pitt in the ACC among all the others and slowly watch RU and CT wither away...

how about we trade Pitt for PSU and still get Texas

 

[Townie72]

Talk about making something out of nothing.

Someone posts a hypothetical question on an ND board and because its the first time ever there may be something to it. So stay tuned?

Still, its an interesting question. From a SU perspective, Penn State would be the first choice.

A couple of years ago, I would have scoffed at the idea and called it absurd.

But events of the past year have changes that. And the driver for PSU to do this might be to make a big change.

Besides, I never got the sense that PSU was all that integrated into the big Ten. They were kind of a third wheel. The rivalries never really germinated. The B1G is still OSU and Michigan.

The other ideas seem stupid to me. A GU/Navy hybrid?

Sure. Or better yet, Georgetown can buy the Naval Academy and then contract with the Federal Government to supply a certain number of Naval Officers. They can either have two campuses or relocate GU to Annapolis. The athletic facilities at GU are embarrassing.

 

[omniorange]

Talk about making something out of nothing.

Someone posts a hypothetical question on an ND board and because its the first time ever there may be something to it. So stay tuned?

Still, its an interesting question. From a SU perspective, Penn State would be the first choice.

A couple of years ago, I would have scoffed at the idea and called it absurd.

But events of the past year have changes that. And the driver for PSU to do this might be to make a big change.

Besides, I never got the sense that PSU was all that integrated into the big Ten. They were kind of a third wheel. The rivalries never really germinated. The B1G is still OSU and Michigan.

Agree about PSU being the best option and that they did get roving eyes which helped bring about Maryland and Rutgers to the BiG.

However, with the new divisional line-ups, I think PSU's geographical concerns are met about as fully as they can be at this time. I think the ACC looked a lot better to PSU when it had Maryland along with Pitt, SU, BC, Virginia, and UNC. Of course, it's still the $$$ disparity that is the biggest reason for remaining with the BiG.

Who knows about the future. Maybe a la carte becomes a reality and puts a dent into the BTN so it isn't as profitable or perhaps Maryland under new leadership and after righting the ship in their athletic department work with PSU to go to the ACC or some combination of the two? Slim chances of either or both happening, but college athletics realignment has become a very strange world.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Btstimpy]

From the S...t Notre Dame board...appearing on March 24th and still going strong...the question of who Notre Dame would want as a 16th member of the ACC. This thread OP is a Notre Dame poster and the vast majority of the posts are Notre Dame posters. Does this mean anything, probably not (more in next couple of weeks), but note that this is the first time the Notre Dame Board has brought up the subject by Notre Dame fans. It is getting interesting...nothing substantial to report at this time...but, but...feels like something is bubbling.
And guess where the Notre Dame fans come out:

• Most likely a hybrid (not that) with Navy and Georgetown...yikes, hitting the old and new BE
• Texas
• Penn State
• Vanderbilt

Wonder if fantasy has some bit of reality??? Discuss.

Go 'Cuse!


http://mbd. /mb.aspx?s=109&f=2594&t=11407438

I love it because that means some Notre Dame fans are at least contemplating joining fully.

Penn State has always been my first choice in this. The new association would need to move the TV dollar needle enough to compensate for the Big Ten projections, and the new President at Penn State would need to be of the nature to want to make a big change for Penn State.

The Navy/GT option would help the ND football scheduling because it would take Navy out of having to take a slot in the 4 ND out of conference games and put Navy in one of the 8 conference games. For the ACC, we would restore the DC/Baltimore market and get another strong basketball brand in Georgetown. While we're at it, we could add Johns Hopkins in Lacrosse. The ACC has never wanted to do partials before, but these are interesting times.

Texas would bring instant additional attention to the ACC in another large state and recruiting ground. Travel distance becomes a concern with Texas though. The Longhorn Network could be used as starting point for growing that network with ACC content.

Vanderbilt? Don't have a clue where that one came from. If we go down that road, we might as well look at Tulane too?

Outside of this list, I also see some positive attributes for looking at UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, South Florida, and even the dreaded West Virginia.

 

[xc84]

Talk about making something out of nothing.

Someone posts a hypothetical question on an ND board and because its the first time ever there may be something to it. So stay tuned?

Be prepared for some serious rebuke. You have angered the gods.

 

[Willy75]

I love it because that means some Notre Dame fans are at least contemplating joining fully.

Penn State has always been my first choice in this. The new association would need to move the TV dollar needle enough to compensate for the Big Ten projections, and the new President at Penn State would need to be of the nature to want to make a big change for Penn State.

The Navy/GT option would help the ND football scheduling because it would take Navy out of having to take a slot in the 4 ND out of conference games and put Navy in one of the 8 conference games. For the ACC, we would restore the DC/Baltimore market and get another strong basketball brand in Georgetown. While we're at it, we could add Johns Hopkins in Lacrosse. The ACC has never wanted to do partials before, but these are interesting times.

Texas would bring instant additional attention to the ACC in another large state and recruiting ground. Travel distance becomes a concern with Texas though. The Longhorn Network could be used as starting point for growing that network with ACC content.

Vanderbilt? Don't have a clue where that one came from. If we go down that road, we might as well look at Tulane too?

Outside of this list, I also see some positive attributes for looking at UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, South Florida, and even the dreaded West Virginia.

Vanderbilt actually fits the ACC profile better than all of the above.

 

[Btstimpy]

Vanderbilt actually fits the ACC profile better than all of the above.

If we weren't having to worry so much about TV markets, competitive athletic departments, and keeping up with the B1G and SEC dollarwise, I'd agree. Vanderbilt, Tulane, and Rice all fit the ACC profile perfect academically. They would be right in line with Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. Vanderbilt would be the closest geographically.

 

[riskylogic]

The OP, lumberpack3, is an NC State fan, and at least half the posters on that thread are not ND fans. [one of them is me]. I think most of the ND respondents take the question to be about basketball. So, don't read too much into it. In fact, there is this post by NDAlum64:

ND is not going to agree to six ACC games. The reason for five is simple. We need to maintain our traditional rivals: USC, Stanford, MSU, Purdue, Navy, and the Shamrock Series rotating venue. That's six games. Add five ACC games, and that only leaves one available for occasional opponents like Oklahoma, Texas or even Northwestern for the Chicago market. We'd much rather have this 12th game against a different opponent than another meaningless ACC game. Would ND vs. Oklahoma or Texas be a better attraction than say, ND vs. Wake Forest? You better believe it. So, let's forget the talk of having six ACC games. Consider yourselves fortunate that you have us for five. ​

​

So, googling Shamrock Series turned up this blurb regarding the ND Miami game:

Lacking in the drama from some of their classics but with more than enough at stake for two seemingly revived programs, No. 9 Notre Dame's 25th meeting Saturday with Miami will put a new twist on one of the sport's most intense rivalries, as it's the fourth installment of the Irish's "Shamrock Series" -- when the school takes one home game to a major city and presents a taste of 21st-century life to a historic program.​

So, maybe the key to getting to six games is to make the Shamrock series an All-ACC affair -- which it partially is already anyway. That would mean giving ND one neutral site game per year, e.g. Syracuse in NYC, Louisville in Indy, Pitt in Philly, VT in DC, UNC in Charlotte, Duke just about anywhere. Adding Navy for FB only would then get ND to seven, enough for a full divisional rotation.

The reverse GT-Navy hybrid already plays in the Patriot league. It would work.

 

[All4SU]

Thanks, Arb. I'm OK with granting ND the right to recommend their joining partner. PSU would be great (i would love the irony of the B1G getting UMD and the ACC getting PSU, small fry for big dog). I can live with Texas, that would kill off the Big 12.

I can live with it ONLY if ND is joining. If they're not, who cares who they want?

 

[tep624]

Penn State is #1 and Vandy #2. Neither is probably realistic but are more realistic than Texas.

I hate the Hybrid idea. I'd rather see the ACC identify a school that fits the conference profile that may be at the D1AA level right now and prop that school up. Maybe a school with a strong basketball program already or a FB program that has been successful at the 1AA level. I'd rather see the ACC get creative and build something than do the Big East answer to everything.

 

[Btstimpy]

Penn State is #1 and Vandy #2. Neither is probably realistic but are more realistic than Texas.

I hate the Hybrid idea. I'd rather see the ACC identify a school that fits the conference profile that may be at the D1AA level right now and prop that school up. Maybe a school with a strong basketball program already or a FB program that has been successful at the 1AA level. I'd rather see the ACC get creative and build something than do the Big East answer to everything.

The University of Delaware and Villanova University fit this profile a bit. Upon second thought, isn't this was UConn is?

 

[tep624]

The University of Delaware and Villanova University fit this profile a bit. Upon second thought, isn't this was UConn is?

There really aren't many options unfortunately. All things considered, I'd favor Navy as a full member over any type of hybrid. The nice thing about Navy is that it makes getting ND to become a full member that much easier and it gets the ACC back in the MD market.

The other lesser team options that would bring a new market, such as Temple, Villanova, Georgetown, and Delaware all have serious obstacles to becoming full member D1 programs.

UCONN would be a decent fit based on some of the criteria, but I don't think there's much motivation for a second New England based school.

 

[HtownOrange]

I can live with it ONLY if ND is joining. If they're not, who cares who they want?

That's my main point. IF ND is coming, sure, they can have input on #16. If not, no need to expand right now and nobody cares what they think.

 

[Btstimpy]

There really aren't many options unfortunately. All things considered, I'd favor Navy as a full member over any type of hybrid. The nice thing about Navy is that it makes getting ND to become a full member that much easier and it gets the ACC back in the MD market.

The other lesser team options that would bring a new market, such as Temple, Villanova, Georgetown, and Delaware all have serious obstacles to becoming full member D1 programs.

UCONN would be a decent fit based on some of the criteria, but I don't think there's much motivation for a second New England based school.

I think that the reason for the hybrid is that the United States Navy has a height limit of 6 ft 6 in. They have a limited exception waiver to 6 ft 8 in. This seriously would limit the Naval Academy's ability to compete in ACC basketball effectively.

They had a center named David Robinson once who was 7 ft 1 in. But, he was 6 ft 7 in when he was accepted from high school. He actually grew 6 inches as a student. They don't have any others like that. Then the Navy limited his in service career to 2 years because he was too tall.

 

[tep624]

I think that the reason for the hybrid is that the United States Navy has a height limit of 6 ft 6 in. They have a limited exception waiver to 6 ft 8 in. This seriously would limit the Naval Academy's ability to compete in ACC basketball effectively.

They had a center named David Robinson once who was 7 ft 1 in. But, he was 6 ft 7 in when he was accepted from high school. He actually grew 6 inches as a student. They don't have any others like that. Then the Navy limited his in service career to 2 years because he was too tall.

Wow good point, I wasn't aware of the Naval Academy height restriction. I wonder if they could increase the waiver to 6'10 for basketball recruits only - that would pretty much handle that issue. Seems like a small compromise to make for the financial, academic, and media benefits it would bring with being a full ACC member.

 

[Resonator]

That's my main point. IF ND is coming, sure, they can have input on #16. If not, no need to expand right now and nobody cares what they think.

^ ^ ^ This.

If they're not coming all in, then, they can sit back and be quiet.

 

[riskylogic]

^ ^ ^ This.

If they're not coming all in, then, they can sit back and be quiet.

Here's the thing. "All-in" doesn't have a precise meaning anymore. The ACC HAS accepted a semi-partial member, ND IS no longer entirely independent. Which is not bad at all. Consider the varying degrees of more-in:

1. The "Shamrock Series" [Neutral site in a major metropolitan area] is converted to a sixth ACC game
2. Navy is added to the ND 4 team pod (FB only of course)
3. Seven games is enough for a divisional, and ergo, a conference championship

Is that "all-in"? I say yes, just barely.

 

[longtimefan]

Here's the thing. "All-in" doesn't have a precise meaning anymore. The ACC HAS accepted a semi-partial member, ND IS no longer entirely independent. Which is not bad at all. Consider the varying degrees of more-in:

1. The "Shamrock Series" [Neutral site in a major metropolitan area] is converted to a sixth ACC game
2. Navy is added to the ND 4 team pod (FB only of course)
3. Seven games is enough for a divisional, and ergo, a conference championship

Is that "all-in"? I say yes, just barely.

I can't imagine the Navy partial membership is possible. Of course, I thought the same way about Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G.

 

[riskylogic]

I can't imagine the Navy partial membership is possible. Of course, I thought the same way about Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G.

Check out the current Patriot league membership:

G'Town: FB Only
Navy: Everything but FB

 

[nzm136]

From the S...t Notre Dame board...appearing on March 24th and still going strong...the question of who Notre Dame would want as a 16th member of the ACC. This thread OP is a Notre Dame poster and the vast majority of the posts are Notre Dame posters. Does this mean anything, probably not (more in next couple of weeks), but note that this is the first time the Notre Dame Board has brought up the subject by Notre Dame fans. It is getting interesting...nothing substantial to report at this time...but, but...feels like something is bubbling.
And guess where the Notre Dame fans come out:

• Most likely a hybrid (not that) with Navy and Georgetown...yikes, hitting the old and new BE
• Texas
• Penn State
• Vanderbilt

Wonder if fantasy has some bit of reality??? Discuss.

Go 'Cuse!


http://mbd. /mb.aspx?s=109&f=2594&t=11407438

I suggested ND & GU/Navy 9 months ago and was called a troll and got my thread deleted. Weird how all the sudden it is a viable option amongst the ND faithful (who will ultimately decide the 16th member).

[rolls eyes, looks down, and shakes head]

 

[nzm136]

I can't imagine the Navy partial membership is possible. Of course, I thought the same way about Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G.

Think about ND on the other side of that add. Navy/GU doesn't sound awesome on it's own, but ND play anyone sounds fantastic. Anyway, Navy is good for exposure (vets, military ppl, and military families love 'em) and it's great to stay relevant in an important ACC area. But beyond that, Georgetown has great academics, good athletics, great basketball and an excellent location for the ACC. It would also bring one of the most heated rivalries in college basketball (GU v SU) and rivalries make a TON of money. It would be a very good move for Syracuse and a very good move for the ACC.

Navy frees up a game on ND's schedule and Georgetown is Catholic (along with ND and BC), so it's the ideal move for ND.

It also wouldn't eb the BIG EAST 2.0, because it would be 1/17 basketball onlies, and not 8/16. That is a HUGE difference. One is a stalemate. The other isn't.

I would rather PSU, but I don't think that will happen any time soon.

 

[riskylogic]

It also wouldn't be the BIG EAST 2.0, because it would be 1/17 basketball onlies, and not 8/16. That is a HUGE difference. One is a stalemate. The other isn't.

I'd think of it as two schools splitting one spot, so 1/16 basketball only, 1/16 football only.