For the First Time EVER: Notre Dame Discusses what team is 16 in ACC

[riskylogic]

Not sure I implied anything. I quoted someone. ND admin. will certainly cater to the people that pay their bills. That does not mean ND fans will decide who the next ACC member is. The ACC schools' admins. and ACC brass will...even if ND has a preference. It's still gotta make sense $$-wise to the rest of the schools. Even ND is going to want to maximize revenue...and so it's not going to want a schools just because it's a "buddy" school. It's going to want a school that makes them money.

Tradition counts. It counts for original ACC schools. It counts for old BE schools, but not as much. It especially counts for Notre Dame -- which is the main reason that anyone is talking about Navy; the other reason being Maryland took the money and ran.

 

[nzm136]

Not sure I implied anything. I quoted someone. ND admin. will certainly cater to the people that pay their bills. That does not mean ND fans will decide who the next ACC member is. The ACC schools' admins. and ACC brass will...even if ND has a preference. It's still gotta make sense $$-wise to the rest of the schools. Even ND is going to want to maximize revenue...and so it's not going to want a schools just because it's a "buddy" school. It's going to want a school that makes them money.

Sooooo you're claimig that a ND admin said "t was more than that. It was that the ND faithful would actually decide who the 16th member of the ACC would be!"? Riiiiiiiiight.

Now, two things:
1) ND + any school makes $$$ sense, so that point is moot.
2) You clearly haven't made this mental leap yet, so I'll help you out. ND plays Navy every year because the Navy kept them afloat during WWII (pun intended). Adding Navy to the ACC effectively gives ND an extra OOC game, which means they have to cut one less of Purdue, Michigan State, USC, and Stanford. There aren't any teams in existance who would make up for the loss of one of ND's main rivals in their eyes. And to clarify, when I say "their eyes," I mean the eyes of ND fans who pay ND's bills. So your whole Navy might not make financial sense for ND argument is beyond dumb.
3) There's a very good chance that there wouldn't be an ACC as we know it right now, but for ND. Do you really think that the ACC brass is going to make a stand?

 

[longtimefan]

Sooooo you're claimig that a ND admin said "t was more than that. It was that the ND faithful would actually decide who the 16th member of the ACC would be!"? Riiiiiiiiight.

Now, two things:
1) ND + any school makes $$$ sense, so that point is moot.
2) You clearly haven't made this mental leap yet, so I'll help you out. ND plays Navy every year because the Navy kept them afloat during WWII (pun intended). Adding Navy to the ACC effectively gives ND an extra OOC game, which means they have to cut one less of Purdue, Michigan State, USC, and Stanford. There aren't any teams in existance who would make up for the loss of one of ND's main in their eyes. And to clarify, when I say "their eyes," I mean the eyes of ND fans who pay ND's bills. So your whole Navy might not make financial sense for ND argument is beyond dumb.
3) There's a very good chance that there wouldn't be an ACC as we know it right now, but for ND. Do you really think that the ACC brass is going to make a stand?

You'll never pass that Logic course with arguments like those.

 

[nzm136]

You'll never pass that Logic course with arguments like those.

Logic, yes. Math, no.

I added #3 at the last minute and forgot to change the "two" to a "three"

 

[xc84]

Sooooo you're claimig that a ND admin said "t was more than that. It was that the ND faithful would actually decide who the 16th member of the ACC would be!"? Riiiiiiiiight.

Um no. I am not claiming anything of the sort. That quote is from a poster here...not a ND admin. or even ND fan.

 

[xc84]

1) ND + any school makes $$$ sense, so that point is moot.

So, ND and Stony Brook would be ok with the rest of the schools? Sure. What makes $$ sense is what makes the most money. So, the point is not moot at all.

 

[xc84]

2) You clearly haven't made this mental leap yet, so I'll help you out. ND plays Navy every year because the Navy kept them afloat during WWII (pun intended). Adding Navy to the ACC effectively gives ND an extra OOC game, which means they have to cut one less of Purdue, Michigan State, USC, and Stanford. There aren't any teams in existance who would make up for the loss of one of ND's main in their eyes. And to clarify, when I say "their eyes," I mean the eyes of ND fans who pay ND's bills. So your whole Navy might not make financial sense for ND argument is beyond dumb.

3) There's a very good chance that there wouldn't be an ACC as we know it right now, but for ND. Do you really think that the ACC brass is going to make a stand?

RE: #2. They play Navy now and can continue to schedule Navy. Navy does not have to be in the ACC for ND to schedule them. I guess I didn't have to leap...just hopped a little.

RE: #3 : Wow. The ACC likes ND but they would be fine without ND too. And yes, for money reasons, the ACC brass and school admins. will take a stand.

 

[xc84]

Tradition counts. It counts for original ACC schools. It counts for old BE schools, but not as much. It especially counts for Notre Dame -- which is the main reason that anyone is talking about Navy; the other reason being Maryland took the money and ran.

Yeah...but all that has nothing to do with my post really. I don't disagree with anything you posted here. I just disagree that somehow the ND fans have taken over the ACC and are now in a position to make the most important calls to be made going forward...namely that they will choose the 16th member...as if ND is now the de-facto president of the ACC.

 

[nzm136]

Um no. I am not claiming anything of the sort. That quote is from a poster here...not a ND admin. or even ND fan.

You said: "It was more than that. It was that the ND faithful would actually decide who the 16th member of the ACC would be!
I responded by saying: "So you mean to imply that ND never gets their way and/or that they would never cater to the people that pay their bills? If so, see BIG EAST 1996-2013, and ACC 2013- foreseeable future."
To which you responded: "Not sure I implied anything. I quoted someone. ND admin."

 

[nzm136]

So, ND and Stony Brook would be ok with the rest of the schools? Sure. What makes $$ sense is what makes the most money. So, the point is not moot at all.

Except, using last year's results and the msot recent TV numbers for valuation, that combo would come out ahead in the ACC. Given that SB isn't even BCS, it's safe to say that your point was moot.

ND TV money increases alone would be within $6 million of covering both schools. Adding BCS revenue and increases in game attendance adds another $10 million (at least - this is low balled and doesn't take the potential ND v FSU ACC CCG into account). That puts ND + SB up $4 million before SB even takes the field.

 

[nzm136]

RE: #2. They play Navy now and can continue to schedule Navy. Navy does not have to be in the ACC for ND to schedule them. I guess I didn't have to leap...just hopped a little.

RE: #3 : Wow. The ACC likes ND but they would be fine without ND too. And yes, for money reasons, the ACC brass and school admins. will take a stand.

RE: #2 What you did wasn't a hop. It was a logic face plant. You missed the point entirely. If ND was to join the ACC as a 16th school, the ACC would almost certainly jump to a 9 game schedule. In a 12 game regular season, that leave 3 OOC games. ND needs to play Navy. That means that ND would only have two open slots for their traditional rivals (purdue, MSU, USC, and Stanford), which are their mos tprofitable games. By not adding Navy, ND has to trade two of their most profitable games for what ever team joins with them, which would be a less profitabel game.
RE: #3 This is honestly the dumbest thing that I've read on the internet. The entire reason why the ACC would listen to ND is for "money reasons." Keep in mind that half the ACC has flirted with other conferences. And no, I'm not talking about the WVU-inspired rumors, I'm talking about well-reported actions, like FSU's BoT member publicly supporting joining the Big XII last May, and FSU's AD publicly asking for a SEC invite last month. That's with ND. Imagine the ACC w/o ND. Keep in mind that Clemson, the ACC's #2 fb program, has publicly called for ND's entrance into the conference (Clemson and Wake are the schools the headed the effort to add ND), and if ND were to jump, they might start looking for other options. So no, the ACC might very well not be fine w/o ND. All it takes is one of UNC, FSU, Clemson, VT, UVA, or GT to leave and the entire house of cards comes down, because there would be an atmosphere of distrust like there was in the BIG EAST.

It takes a special kind of person to think that adding ND as a full member isn't in the financial best interest of the conference, and wouldn't lead to increased stability. It also takes a special kind of person to think that the ACC doesn't need both and wouldn't bend over backwards to attach itself to ND's instant football legitimacy (see ND's current arrangement). Finally, it takes a special kind of person to think that ND wouldn't listen to their financial base when making decisions.

Now that I think about it. I'm pretty sure I remember you when I first posted the idea. I'm pretty sure you said that the ACC would never have a partial. How'd that prediction go for ya?

At this point, if you still disagree, you are either phenomenally stupid or a troll. Either way, you aren't worth my time. Peace.

 

[xc84]

RE: #2 What you did wasn't a hop. It was a logic face plant. You missed the point entirely. If ND was to join the ACC as a 16th school, the ACC would almost certainly jump to a 9 game schedule. In a 12 game regular season, that leave 3 OOC games. ND needs to play Navy. That means that ND would only have two open slots for their traditional (purdue, MSU, USC, and Stanford), which are their mos tprofitable games. By not adding Navy, ND has to trade two of their most profitable games for what ever team joins with them, which would be a less profitabel game.
RE: #3 This is honestly the dumbest thing that I've read on the internet. The entire reason why the ACC would listen to ND is for "money reasons." Keep in mind that half the ACC has flirted with other conferences. And no, I'm not talking about the WVU-inspired rumors, I'm talking about well-reported actions, like FSU's BoT member publicly supporting joining the Big XII last May, and FSU's AD publicly asking for a SEC invite last month. That's with ND. Imagine the ACC w/o ND. Keep in mind that Clemson, the ACC's #2 fb program, has publicly called for ND's entrance into the conference (Clemson and Wake are the schools the headed the effort to add ND), and if ND were to jump, they might start looking for other options. So no, the ACC might very well not be fine w/o ND. All it takes is one of UNC, FSU, Clemson, VT, UVA, or GT to leave and the entire house of cards comes down, because there would be an atmosphere of distrust like there was in the BIG EAST.

It takes a special kind of person to think that adding ND as a full member isn't in the financial best interest of the conference, and wouldn't lead to increased stability. It also takes a special kind of person to think that the ACC doesn't need both and wouldn't bend over backwards to attach itself to ND's instant football legitimacy (see ND's current arrangement). Finally, it takes a special kind of person to think that ND wouldn't listen to their financial base when making decisions.

Now that I think about it. I'm pretty sure I remember you when I first posted the idea. I'm pretty sure you said that the ACC would never have a partial. How'd that prediction go for ya?

At this point, if you still disagree, you are either phenomenally stupid or a troll. Either way, you aren't worth my time. Peace.

Too many strawman arguments to respond to aymore. e.g. "It takes a special kind of person to think that adding ND as a full member isn't in the financial best interest of the conference, and wouldn't lead to increased stability."

LOL. Who said it wasn't in the financial best interest of the conference to add ND as a full member? Not me.

 

[xc84]

Except, using last year's results and the msot recent TV numbers for valuation, that combo would come out ahead in the ACC. Given that SB isn't even BCS, it's safe to say that your point was moot.

Even if it "came out ahead"...it would not be the best option. There are better options. It would not be the option chosen by the ACC. If you honestly think the ACC would allow Stony Brook in just because ND said it must, you are really losing it.

 

[xc84]

You said: "It was more than that. It was that the ND faithful would actually decide who the 16th member of the ACC would be!
I responded by saying: "So you mean to imply that ND never gets their way and/or that they would never cater to the people that pay their bills? If so, see BIG EAST 1996-2013, and ACC 2013- foreseeable future."
To which you responded: "Not sure I implied anything. I quoted someone. ND admin."

No. I said the quote being referred to by a poster on this board was more than that. Then I quoted the post which said the ND faithful would determine the 16th member. I should have just laughed about it and left it at that. I didn't say ND has no pull...I just said their fans would not choose the 16th member. You have filters.

 

[AirForceOrange]

The ND faithful will decide who the 16th member of the ACC is? Gee, you mean our board won't have a say in it too?! This board should decide...not the ND board!

only the pay side should get to decide...afterall what are we paying for?

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Alsacs]

Please stop with the Navy/Georgetown hybrid. Navy alone is the better suggestion. We all know Navy's programs aren't strong, but if you want Navy as a football member you might as well take all their programs, and give that vital military school a boost in recruiting for all its sports programs. Georgetown is trash for all sports, but basketball they reached the finals of the soccer tournament this year, but the ACC doesn't need Georgetown's basketball program. Georgetown doesn't have a large fanbase, and can't fill the Verizon Center unless they play Duke or Syracuse and now recently they have placed a Syracuse tax(3 game plans to purchase SU tickets) on any purchasing of Syracuse tickets. We don't need Georgetown and if we need to play in Navy in football then play Navy basketball, lacrosse, etc.

If Notre Dame becomes the 15th full member of the ACC they will play an important role in whom the 16th team will be, but the choices will likely be among Cincinnati, UConn, Navy, or Penn State.

 

[xc84]

Please stop with the Navy/Georgetown hybrid. Navy alone is the better suggestion.

Agreed. I don't think a hybrid situation is desirable. Navy would be fine but I think the ACC can and will do better... though the location is a good replacement for Maryland.

 

[cuseboy6]

As awesome as it sounds having our longtime rival pstate in the ACC, what would be the driving force behind that? I dont see the BiG getting any weaker. In fact Texas will more than likely join the BiG within the next three years. More money, more exposure and better football. I love the ACC and am really excited that Cuse is in it, but you cant say that Pstate is in a better position moving into the ACC. My leading candidates for the ACC are 1) Vandy 2) Cincy (perfect tv market) 3) Uconn (doesn't compare to vandy academic profile)

 

[riskylogic]

Please stop with the Navy/Georgetown hybrid. Navy alone is the better suggestion. We all know Navy's programs aren't strong, but if you want Navy as a football member you might as well take all their programs, and give that vital military school a boost in recruiting for all its sports programs. Georgetown is trash for all sports, but basketball they reached the finals of the soccer tournament this year, but the ACC doesn't need Georgetown's basketball program. Georgetown doesn't have a large fanbase, and can't fill the Verizon Center unless they play Duke or Syracuse and now recently they have placed a Syracuse tax(3 game plans to purchase SU tickets) on any purchasing of Syracuse tickets. We don't need Georgetown and if we need to play in Navy in football then play Navy basketball, lacrosse, etc.

If Notre Dame becomes the 15th full member of the ACC they will play an important role in whom the 16th team will be, but the choices will likely be among Cincinnati, UConn, Navy, or Penn State.

MLax would be fine, but I just can't imagine taking Navy for basketball. However, it would be feasible to just take Navy as an affiliate for FB only and stay at 15 for basketball. Maybe it could even be done on a temporary basis - i.e. give Navy a ten year spot in the hope that a little space on the ND schedule can be freed up in the meantime. Ten years in the ACC vs perpetuity in the AAC is an easy choice, I think. We might also take a different affiliate member somewhere besides the DC area for BB. Villanova, for instance.

 

[Alsacs]

MLax would be fine, but I just can't imagine taking Navy for basketball. However, it would be feasible to just take Navy as an affiliate for FB only and stay at 15 for basketball. Maybe it could even be done on a temporary basis - i.e. give Navy a ten year spot in the hope that a little space on the ND schedule can be freed up in the meantime. Ten years in the ACC vs perpetuity in the AAC is an easy choice, I think. We might also take a different affiliate member somewhere besides the DC area for BB. Villanova, for instance.

I would have Navy all-in rather than having them partially in. Navy basketball isn't good, but if they were in the ACC their recruiting would greatly improve, and plus its okay to have 1 school that isn't that strong when the ACC is going to have North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, North Carolina State all on the top having Navy wouldn't be that bad if Notre Dame became a full member. I am sure Navy could play a couple of their games in Baltimore if they wanted to play in a bigger arena. I would rather have Navy in all-Sports than Navy Football/Georgetown basketball.

 

[xc84]

I would have Navy all-in rather than having them partially in. Navy basketball isn't good, but if they were in the ACC their recruiting would greatly improve, and plus its okay to have 1 school that isn't that strong when the ACC is going to have North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, North Carolina State all on the top having Navy wouldn't be that bad if Notre Dame became a full member. I am sure Navy could play a couple of their games in Baltimore if they wanted to play in a bigger arena. I would rather have Navy in all-Sports than Navy Football/Georgetown basketball.

Agreed. Navy would be better all-in than G-town. However, I am not sure how much better recruiting they could do in basketball given the service commitment required.

 

[tep624]

I would have Navy all-in rather than having them partially in. Navy basketball isn't good, but if they were in the ACC their recruiting would greatly improve, and plus its okay to have 1 school that isn't that strong when the ACC is going to have North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, Notre Dame, North Carolina State all on the top having Navy wouldn't be that bad if Notre Dame became a full member. I am sure Navy could play a couple of their games in Baltimore if they wanted to play in a bigger arena. I would rather have Navy in all-Sports than Navy Football/Georgetown basketball.

If ND commits to becoming a full member, Navy being the 16th would be a no brainer. Academically they work, geographically they work. They have the ability to be competitive in Football and Lax. The ACC basketball league is strong enough to take on Navy even if they are a perennial doormat. Navy has already set the precedent of playing in Baltimore, and when ND has played "at" Navy in Baltimore, the ticket sales have been pretty good. They have a national following and they get the ACC firmly back in the MD market.

 

[riskylogic]

My leading candidates for the ACC are 1) Vandy ...

The Vandy issue is this:

Which NC school should the ACC trade? Yeah, we'd love to give up Wake straight up. UNC or Duke, no way. So, NC State it is. Might need a $25 mil sweetener for Vandy, but otherwise it should work. New state and better fit for the SEC, new state and [slightly] better fit for the ACC

 

[jasjr]

The Vandy issue is this:

Which NC school should the ACC trade? Yeah, we'd love to give up Wake straight up. UNC or Duke, no way. So, NC State it is. Might need a $25 mil sweetener for Vandy, but otherwise it should work. New state and better fit for the SEC, new state and [slightly] better fit for the ACC

I don't see any school being traded. SEC take NC State?
I was out of town the last few days in Phoenix for work. Got into a conversation with a guy who told me something about Navy and Notre Dame.
He had it that back some time ago, long ago when Notre Dame was struggling financially, (imagine that) that Navy sent a large number of students to ND and it had a big part in saving the University. Any truth to that? No, the guy was not drunk and he seemed pretty legit.
I have said this for months, they need to have input. They need to be part of the decision on who the 16th team will be. Most importantly, get the deal done. I don't see Vandy being that team. My first is Penn State. Go get them and be done with it. That is the best play for the ACC. We don't need them and Texas in the B1G. Adding ND and Penn State? WOW, get it done!!

 

[TexanMark]

Agreed. Navy would be better all-in than G-town. However, I am not sure how much better recruiting they could do in basketball given the service commitment required.

As a Dad with two kids who received their commission through the Service Academies...I just chuckle at thinking Navy can be competitive in Olympic Sports. The main reason they are somewhat competitive in football is due to the fact they use the prep school to redshirt kids and have no recruiting restrictions. They can literally offer 60 kids a chance to play football every year. Those too small or needing extra academic work can go for a year to the prep school...others can play JV Football. Outta those 50-60 marginal D-1, D-1AA or D-2 players some become legit 1-A players in that funky option they run. The 25/85 rule does not apply to Service Academies.

If Notre Dame ever comes in for all sports...you offer them Navy for FB only and cherry pick GTown, Nova or SJU from the Big East.

I also agree that the ACC will go to 9 games a year with 16 teams...you need to give ND the option to play 2 or 3 of their traditional rivals.