Formation breakdown

[Keger03]

If anyone with more football intelligence than me would be so inclined, I would like to get more into the weeds with football 101. I played all through school (20 years ago) but never had the teachings of what the hell most of this stuff means. I see this in random threads but would like to know more as we watch our team. 21 offense formation (what is it, what is the purpose). 3-3-5 defense (what is the benefit, what is the purpose what are the positions responsible for). It would be nice to see our formations and personnel packages and understand what they are doing rather than just judge positive or negative yards. If anyone with knowledge is interested, please post below and bring everyone up to speed. If not, enjoy your day. Thanks.

 

[Keger03]

Any readers that have specific questions on personnel packages or whatever, add them to the thread and our football gurus can take a stab at it.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I'm not a coach but when people say things like 21 personnel they are referring to how many RBs and TEs are on the field for the upcoming play. In 21 personnel for example, there are two RBs (or one RB and one FB) and one TE in the formation. Teams can run formations like the classic I-formation or a Split-Back using this personnel. Likewise, in 12 personnel there is one RB and two TEs on the field.

 

[TheCusian]

This is the bones of our offensive system: The ultimate offense

 

[ImperialOrange]

3-3-5 is almost a necessity for us to get 1 more fast DB on the field and remove 1 300+ DT that rarely grow in the Northeast. Other option would be 3-4 type given our LB talent if you're playing a BC or another run first team where you want to heavier in the box

Not sure how basic or in depth you're asking and don't want to patronise. 3 DL 3 LB and 5 DBs though (2 CB, 2 safeties, 1 hybrid rover type). Protects against spreads and speed but leaves you light in the box. Adds importance to DBs that can not only cover ground but also run down hill fill on run fits.

 

[Keger03]

3-3-5 is almost a necessity for us to get 1 more fast DB on the field and remove 1 300+ DT that rarely grow in the Northeast. Other option would be 3-4 type given our LB talent if you're playing a BC or another run first team where you want to heavier in the box

Not sure how basic or in depth you're asking and don't want to patronise. 3 DL 3 LB and 5 DBs though (2 CB, 2 safeties, 1 hybrid rover type). Protects against spreads and speed but leaves you light in the box. Adds importance to DBs that can not only cover ground but also run down hill fill on run fits.

Honestly anything. Some stuff I or others may know as "common knowledge" but once you start getting into the weeds is where the information is interesting.

 

[baggerbob]

This is the bones of our offensive system: The ultimate offense

If you read through most of that description, TD doesn't fit any of that offense, Eric did, so Gilbert needs to go with the new guy.

 

[syrBossHogg]

If you read through most of that description, TD doesn't fit any of that offense, Eric did, so Gilbert needs to go with the new guy.

Dino will determine who starts

 

[baggerbob]

Dino will determine who starts

Dino isn't going to overrule his offensive Coordinator, both their jobs depend on getting it right. Dino is in this mess because he Annointed TD as his QB. Gilbert doesn't have that same concern, he has to have a good offense, or he needs a new job.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Dino isn't going to overrule his offensive Coordinator, both their jobs depend on getting it right. Dino is in this mess because he Annointed TD as his QB. Gilbert doesn't have that same concern, he has to have a good offense, or he needs a new job.

No he prolly won't but he's still the HC, he makes the final decision. They will prolly be on the same page since they come from a similar offensive background.

 

[TheCusian]

Dino isn't going to overrule his offensive Coordinator, both their jobs depend on getting it right. Dino is in this mess because he Annointed TD as his QB. Gilbert doesn't have that same concern, he has to have a good offense, or he needs a new job.

TD earned the job, only in fever swamps did he get anointed anything. The system prizes itself on accurate throws, passing deep, and knowing where to go with the ball. TD can make all the throws, it's the "knowing where to go" part combined with the zero time to think because the OL blows part that has held us back.

Shrader, like Dungey has a less reliable arm. Doesn't mean he won't be the guy (if the OL stinks again and we need someone to run, I'd go with him in a heartbeat) - but don't miss where the line of demarcation is - it's between TD's arm and Shrader's legs. If we had a guy with both attributes (McNabb), we'd be sitting pretty and a lot more confident about the direction of the program.

 

[Finwad32]

TD earned the job, only in fever swamps did he get anointed anything. The system prizes itself on accurate throws, passing deep, and knowing where to go with the ball. TD can make all the throws, it's the "knowing where to go" part combined with the zero time to think because the OL blows part that has held us back.

Shrader, like Dungey has a less reliable arm. Doesn't mean he won't be the guy (if the OL stinks again and we need someone to run, I'd go with him in a heartbeat) - but don't miss where the line of demarcation is - it's between TD's arm and Shrader's legs. If we had a guy with both attributes (McNabb), we'd be sitting pretty and a lot more confident about the direction of the program.

I would argue how reliable their arms are - Eric’s career completion % was 61.5 - TD’s 58.3.

Arm strength TD has the edge - but doesn’t matter if you throw lasers into the 3rd row.

 

[TheCusian]

I would argue how reliable their arms are - Eric’s career completion % was 61.5 - TD’s 58.3.

Arm strength TD has the edge - but doesn’t matter if you throw lasers into the 3rd row.

Fair point.

It's no small thing that when things broke down TD chucks it out of bounds and Eric would run. Eric knew where to go with the ball even if it wouldn't always get there on target, while TD sometimes still doesn't know - this influences those numbers too.

I still think TD is more accurate and a better pure thrower. Eric's mythology grows as all good SU QBs should - but his arm was passable, everything else (leadership, athleticism, control of the offense, etc) was top notch

 

[baggerbob]

Fair point.

It's no small thing that when things broke down TD chucks it out of bounds and Eric would run. Eric knew where to go with the ball even if it wouldn't always get there on target, while TD sometimes still doesn't know - this influences those numbers too.

I still think TD is more accurate and a better pure thrower. Eric's mythology grows as all good SU QBs should - but his arm was passable, everything else (leadership, athleticism, control of the offense, etc) was top notch

All the attributes you list after are the important ones. Having a great arm means nothing if you can't make plays.

 

[TheCusian]

All the attributes you list after are the important ones. Having a great arm means nothing if you can't make plays.

Yeah and?

We’ll see if that has developed alongside the OL. If not, we’ll see Shrader.

Also, TD’s arm strength and accuracy fit the system perfectly. Which was my original rebuttal to you that this system was needing someone like Eric to run it.

 

[money3189]

Its a system that can utilize both. Accurate down field passing and a capable runner. You can have the same production with a pro style or dual threat. The running ability just allows them to expand the playbook more.