Fox Throwing $$$ at Catholic 7: Break Now Official...3FTBALL Schools

[nzm136]

I feel differently, but that's cool. But I do think it will be an attractive league for recruiting in NYC/DC/philly/balt -- Will that kill su recruiting in those areas? Perhaps not, but g'town has been getting crushed by us lately. Will be interesting to see if those balt/philly/dc kids are still picking SU over g'town when they won't play within 3 hours of their home cities.

According to google directions, UVA is 2 hours and 19 minutes from DC ...in current traffic.

Anyway, you're assuming that we won't play 'Nova or GU regularily OOC. I'm pretty sure that we've already said that we are going to keep at least one of those alive and viable (I think SU v GU - it makes the most sense).

 

[Moontan]

Take Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Baylor out of their conference, and they would be worth about what Rice, SMU, ad Houston are worth, and that's jack nothing, but all of those schools are in big cities.

Baylor is in a large city??

Waco's population in 2010 was 124,805.
Syracuse's population in 2010 was 145,170.

 

[longtimefan]

Baylor is in a large city??

Waco's population in 2010 was 124,805.
Syracuse's population in 2010 was 145,170.

I think he meant Rice, SMU and Houston are in large cities.

 

[JrodCuse]

They'll just waste it on booze, drugs, and hookers and be bankrupt in 3 years anyway.

But what a three years!

 

[billsin01]

WHAT?????!!!!

The SEC and the B1G have the two lowest populations and the highest payouts. The BIG EAST had one of teh highest populations (if not the highest) and the lowest payout. TV contracts depend on viewers for advertising dollars and enthusiasm for carriage charges. Ultimately those are dependant on 3 sub factors: current levels, potential, and liklihood of reaching the potential.

Arguably a school's potential has something to do with the population around it, but honestly it's more a factor of being a state school, so that fans are born, not made, and it is a factor of being the only game in town (i.e. Nebraska, PSU, ND, Alabama, Tennessee, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Oklahoma, Arkansas, TA&M, FSU, VTech, WVU, Florida, Kentucky, Georgia, Clemson, and South Carolina). Take Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Baylor out of their conference, and they would be worth about what Rice, SMU, ad Houston are worth, and that's jack nothing, but all of those schools are in big cities.

I don't think we really disagree on this. My point was that in this round of expansion and realignment, the schools added certainly aren't bringing any added intrigue or ratings to the football side of the equation. The B10 adds RU and UMD? Those are based on being in big markets, not actually having any viewers. ACC adds cuse and pitt? It certainly isn't for football fan bases and ratings.

 

[billsin01]

According to google directions, UVA is 2 hours and 19 minutes from DC ...in current traffic.

Anyway, you're assuming that we won't play 'Nova or GU regularily OOC. I'm pretty sure that we've already said that we are going to keep at least one of those alive and viable (I think SU v GU - it makes the most sense).

I'll give you 100 dollars if you leave at 4:30 for a 7 p.m. game from Silver Spring, where I live, and get there in under 3 hours.

 

[All4SU]

Imagine the bonanza if uconn gets acc invite in next yr or so. 30 million not pocket change

Same thing if USF were to get a B12 invite. They would have a pile of cash in hand, and an okay spot to play -- not ACC good, but still a safety net for them.

 

[Moontan]

I don't think we really disagree on this. My point was that in this round of expansion and realignment, the schools added certainly aren't bringing any added intrigue or ratings to the football side of the equation. The B10 adds RU and UMD? Those are based on being in big markets, not actually having any viewers. ACC adds cuse and pitt? It certainly isn't for football fan bases and ratings.

It's also possible that the ACC & B1G moves were defensive in nature.
The ACC may have feared being poached while the B1G may have believed that "bigger than 12" was inevitable or necessary.

In both cases, you strike early and get the best available/compatible schools, for fear of being stuck with whatever was left over by the other conferences.

 

[billsin01]

You do realize that we have one of the most profitable programs in the ACC, right? We're about 5th out of 15, and that's with BIG EAST payouts and BIG EAST teams filling up the dome. Bring FSU and Clemson fband Duke and UNC bball every other year and a TV contract that is 3-4x what we were making and we are't going to get worse.

I'm not necessarily talking about us vs. the ACC. I think the BE is actually every bit as good a conference football wise as the ACC (more recognizable names and better fan bases in the ACC but not great football). The ACC probably had a bit more cream at the top but it's really been a largely bland conference with a ton of mediocrity. Can we hang with ACC folks? I guess. But football is dominated by "haves." I don't see that changing and I think it will be tough for SU -- not impossible, but tough -- to compete on the field. Impossible to compete off the field with all the spending.

 

[billsin01]

You were doing fairly well until the last sentence. There is no way they can add UConn and Cincy--those schools both have FBS football programs. Football is why the C7 is breaking away.

And where would the 2 FB schools go to fill their schedules? And what bowls would they have to go to?

I have no idea how likely it is or isn't. If it's not, I'll take your word for it. I don't really care to follow this stuff. I was merely commenting on the suggestion that those schools join some conference for football only and the C7 for hoops. If that's impossible, I'm fine with it. I was just saying "if" it worked, it would make the league that much better.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't watch any Butler and Xavier games now outside of an occasional CBS game or ESPN game they play, but the only teams I will watch are Georgetown and Villanova. I don't like Buzz "look at me" Williams and Marquette and won't watch them. I could care less about St. John's, Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall so that is 7 of the 9 teams that I won't go out of my way to watch. The MWC has good teams and I don't watch them and they will be like the Catholic 7 IMO. I will watch the top 25 teams and the ACC and I am huge sports fan, The only Catholic 7 teams that can fill up their own arena are Marquette, Xavier, Butler the biggest brands Villanova and Georgetown can't fillup their NBA arenas without having a bigboy Syracuse, UConn, Louisville to draw the casual fan to go to the game.

Just because you don't want to watch it doesn't mean others don't.

They are going to have true 9 team non football power conference playing in the NE and Midwest. Nine teams gets back to a perfect 18 game home and home. The reasons the smaller schools couldn't fill their arena's is that the BE was bloated and there was no continuity of scheduling to build a season story around and create races that fans could follow.

Fox will do with the this new conference what ESPN did in the '80's. And Fox won't be starting from scratch.

This new league will be third behind the ACC and Big 1o. FOX is looking for winter content, this will fit nicely. Those schools did great.

 

[All4SU]

Soooo...
USF
Cincy
UConn
Temple
UCF
Memphis
ECU
Houston
SMU
Tulane
Navy
Army?
Split to: (a) UConn, USF, Cincy, navy, army, temple
(B) Memphis, SMU, Tulane, UcF, army, ECU

Look familiar? CUSA II. That's some crappy basketball right there.

 

[Moontan]

Nine teams gets back to a perfect 18 game home and home.

You mean 16 game schedules.

It's the current ideal for a basketball conference.
A 12 team conference with 2 divisions works as well.

15- and 16- team configurations quickly lead to 18-game schedules.

 

[GoSU96]

If SU had been hung out to dry, it would suck, but I would have liked this hoops league ... a ton. Love seeing hoops in dc/philly/nyc. Even provy. But, that said, obviously it's a knock for football. My only point is I'm still skeptical that our move to the ACC will be a boon financially. The world of big time college football spending is going to be very, very, very tough for SU to keep up with. Just my thought.

At least as reported by SU their revenues have grown a great deal the last two years, and that is before a dime of ACC money, which will be a huge increase from they are getting now from media rights.

 

[nzm136]

Baylor is in a large city??

Waco's population in 2010 was 124,805.
Syracuse's population in 2010 was 145,170.

You left out the part about Waco being about an hour outside of Dallas which is one of the biggest cities in America.

 

[All4SU]

You left out the part about Waco being about an hour outside of Dallas which is one of the biggest cities in America.

And Syracuse is in NYC. No one is Dallas cares about Baylor.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I'll give you 100 dollars if you leave at 4:30 for a 7 p.m. game from Silver Spring, where I live, and get there in under 3 hours.

DC traffic. it long and it hard. I've hit traffic at every hour of the day/night traveling on 95 to and from VA.

 

[nzm136]

I don't think we really disagree on this. My point was that in this round of expansion and realignment, the schools added certainly aren't bringing any added intrigue or ratings to the football side of the equation. The B10 adds RU and UMD? Those are based on being in big markets, not actually having any viewers. ACC adds cuse and pitt? It certainly isn't for football fan bases and ratings.

I don't think that you're quite right about UMD and RU. UMD actually gets great ratings and has a very profitable athletic dept. due to (too) heavy spending and I don't think that RU would have been added but for '06 where they actually did do well and got solid ratings. Either way, IMO the primary motivations behind Rutgers were PSU's desire to not be an island, the fact that the state of NJ exports a ton of bright high school students to out of state schools, and the fact that NJ is talent rich in basketball and football high school athletes. It also gives B1G alumni a chanceto go to games. I heard that more B1G live in the NYC area and the DC area than anywhere outside the midwest. Yes, that last factor is related to population, but it isn't quite the same as population. They are looking for alumni, not people in general.

As for 'Cuse and Pitt, it's worth noting that western PA is rich in football talent (especially QB's), and Syracuse has a very profitable athletic dept. I don't think that our athletic dept. is fianced through student fees (but I could be wrong) and we are still in the top 3rd in the new ACC, despite the facts that many ACC schools do supplement their athletic budgets with student fees, and that all ACC schools have the advantage of getting ACC payouts, as oppsed to BIG EASTpayouts, unlike Syracuse. We actually have a strong fan base, it is just spread out (as is common with private schools) and it is somewhat dormant, but re-emmerging. However, before you judge it too harshly, keep in mind that A) with Syacuse comes the Pinstripe Bowl and B) we had the most watched game of the week one o fthe weeks last season. I think that you see us as the Syracuse of the mid 2000's, when we are actually suprisingly close to being the Syracuse of the 90's. If HCSS can coach as well as Marrone, or close to it, then we wil lbe very good very soon. We have invested heavily in football and football facilities over the last 3 years or so.

 

[nzm136]

And Syracuse is in NYC. No one is Dallas cares about Baylor.

and nobody in Chicago cares about Northwestern, and nobody in Houston cares abour Rice football, and nobody in Houston cares about Houston football, and nobody in Nashville cares about vandy (this is less true now than it was in the 90's). That's exactly my point.


There's more to it than just location. Otherwise people in Dallas would care about Baylor.

 

[nzm136]

DC traffic. it long and it hard. I've hit traffic at every hour of the day/night traveling on 95 to and from VA.

I can't find the quote that you're quoting,but to bills: take it up with google directions.

 

[Moontan]

Soooo...
USF
Cincy
UConn
Temple
UCF
Memphis
ECU
Houston
SMU
Tulane
Navy
Army?

Two, possibly three, stand out quite a bit from the rest... as do a couple from the MWC.
Their best bet is to excel and continue to stand out from the rest if/when there's more conference realignment/expansion activity.

 

[riskylogic]

I'll give you 100 dollars if you leave at 4:30 for a 7 p.m. game from Silver Spring, where I live, and get there in under 3 hours.

Isn't this the football board? On a weekend, 2.5 hrs max. Friday nights are for high school.

 

[nzm136]

I'm not necessarily talking about us vs. the ACC. I think the BE is actually every bit as good a conference football wise as the ACC (more recognizable names and better fan bases in the ACC but not great football). The ACC probably had a bit more cream at the top but it's really been a largely bland conference with a ton of mediocrity. Can we hang with ACC folks? I guess. But football is dominated by "haves." I don't see that changing and I think it will be tough for SU -- not impossible, but tough -- to compete on the field. Impossible to compete off the field with all the spending.

You missed my point completely. We are already there financially. We will get a bump by jumping from the BIG EAST, which doesn't pay as well as the ACC, to the ACC. Current ACC schools will not get a relative bump, because they are not making that jump. If we have the money now and we get more money compared to the other schools, then, by deinition, we won't get poorer compared to them. I don't get how you keep making the claim that we can't compete off the field. What evidence do you have? I have Dept. of Education reportsthat say the exact opposite. If you don't believe me, then type "DOE athletics bugets" in google and click on an equity in athletics link then compare the schools for yourself.

Actually, here's the link:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

 

[GoSU96]

Can SU hang with the "big boys" financially. In 2011, SU was 21st in men's sports total revenues, 35th in total revenues. 5th highest private school after ND, Stanford, USC, and Duke.

And that's all before one dime from the ACC.

 

[nzm136]

Can SU hang with the "big boys" financially. In 2011, SU was 21st in men's sports total revenues, 35th in total revenues. 5th highest private school after ND, Stanford, USC, and Duke.

And that's all before one dime from the ACC.

EXACTLY. Wait until Syracuse football is "back" and we are getting ACC money. We will only improve.

Also, the dome is paid for, and we use it for fb, bb, and lax, so our facilities costs are MUCH lower than most other school's facilities costs.