Fox Throwing $$$ at Catholic 7: Break Now Official...3FTBALL Schools | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Fox Throwing $$$ at Catholic 7: Break Now Official...3FTBALL Schools

Oregon - $73 million
Syracuse - $69 million (with a BIG EAST payout)

When it's all said and done, the ACC payout (Media. bowls, retained rights, NCAA credits, CCG's, and so on) will be MUCH closer to the Pac-12's payout than the BIG EAST's payout was to the Pac-10. Syracuse is very close to Oregon now, and we have had a down decade in football and we have played the likes of USF and UCONN, whereas Oregon has had the best decade ever and plays USC, UCLA, Cal, UW, and Stanford. Give us an ACC schedule, an ACC payout, and an daverage decade and we would be on top of Oregon. If they are a "big boy," then so are we.
*Btw, we spent more on football than Oregon in 2011.

As for Texas and ND, when did we ever have as much money for athletics as them?

I feel like we keep arguing different points -- is Oregon a big boy? I don't know. Don't they get huge fund-raising gifts from phil knight all the time? If not, fine. You win.

However, we aren't a big boy in football. Our coaches are always at the low end of the scale, our facilities are meh, our fan base is paltry (for football, comparitively) and our reputation nationally is nothing compared to basically anyone in the SEC or Big 10 and the other big name schools out there. Could that change? I guess, but I simply think it's a huge mountain to climb. You don't disagree with that, right? I mean, you don't really think we're a big boy program, at least by the factors I listed? And I'm not blaming SU -- maybe it's a factor of where in the country the program is located. Whatever, I just don't think you can look at where we are right now and begin to compare us to football powers.
 
I feel like we keep arguing different points -- is Oregon a big boy? I don't know. Don't they get huge fund-raising gifts from phil knight all the time? If not, fine. You win.

However, we aren't a big boy in football. Our coaches are always at the low end of the scale, our facilities are meh, our fan base is paltry (for football, comparitively) and our reputation nationally is nothing compared to basically anyone in the SEC or Big 10 and the other big name schools out there. Could that change? I guess, but I simply think it's a huge mountain to climb. You don't disagree with that, right? I mean, you don't really think we're a big boy program, at least by the factors I listed? And I'm not blaming SU -- maybe it's a factor of where in the country the program is located. Whatever, I just don't think you can look at where we are right now and begin to compare us to football powers.
Are we Alabama, Texas, USC, Ohio State, Florida, Michigan, Penn State, Notre Dame, or Oklahoma? No. Should we have reason to expect to consistently beat them? No. Have we ever been consistently better than them for prolonged periods of time? No. Are we within grasp of pretty much everyone else? Yes. I guess it depends on how you define "big Boy."

Btw, I think that you under estemate our facilities and our name. Our facilities have gotten MUCH better in the last 3 years. And no, our name isn't anything compared to Alabama, but we don't havea bad name by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I feel like we keep arguing different points -- is Oregon a big boy? I don't know. Don't they get huge fund-raising gifts from phil knight all the time? If not, fine. You win.

However, we aren't a big boy in football. Our coaches are always at the low end of the scale, our facilities are meh, our fan base is paltry (for football, comparitively) and our reputation nationally is nothing compared to basically anyone in the SEC or Big 10 and the other big name schools out there. Could that change? I guess, but I simply think it's a huge mountain to climb. You don't disagree with that, right? I mean, you don't really think we're a big boy program, at least by the factors I listed? And I'm not blaming SU -- maybe it's a factor of where in the country the program is located. Whatever, I just don't think you can look at where we are right now and begin to compare us to football powers.
I have wasted 15 minutes reading Billsin01 posts and defenses, etc. I don't see any bullying going on. All I see is people trying to sensibly talk to a person who wouldn't have minded being in the MAC. Now herein lies the problem...after that comment, I think all responses should have ceased. We should have let that absurd comment just sit there. Kind of like when a silly girlfriend of the week of one of your peter pan buddies makes a ridiculous political comment at a cocktail party. You all politely smile with eyes bugging out of your head, trying not to embarass the beauty further, but you can't wait for the drive home to unload. That comment is another reason there needs to be a dis-like button on this site. Anyone who would make that comment has no idea what is going on in major college athletics. Hopefully the teams you root for will maximize the games that are within a convenient commute for you, or that you recognize as worthy opponents. I think most on this site are excited for the rivalries coming in the ACC.
 
I have wasted 15 minutes reading Billsin01 posts and defenses, etc. I don't see any bullying going on. All I see is people trying to sensibly talk to a person who wouldn't have minded being in the MAC. Now herein lies the problem...after that comment, I think all responses should have ceased. We should have let that absurd comment just sit there. Kind of like when a silly girlfriend of the week of one of your peter pan buddies makes a ridiculous political comment at a cocktail party. You all politely smile with eyes bugging out of your head, trying not to embarass the beauty further, but you can't wait for the drive home to unload. That comment is another reason there needs to be a dis-like button on this site. Anyone who would make that comment has no idea what is going on in major college athletics. Hopefully the teams you root for will maximize the games that are within a convenient commute for you, or that you recognize as worthy opponents. I think most on this site are excited for the rivalries coming in the ACC.

I never accused anyone of bullying -- that was another poster. I also said the MAC combined with the Catholic 7 in hoops wouldn't have put me into a state of despair had we been left out. Yes, we are luckily in a much, much better situation. I simply said I would have liked that hoops conference and could've survived the football side of things.
 
Understand, but look at the area each team is located in and tell me if they are the primary team in that region.
Georgetown- is behind Maryland in D.C./Maryland area
Villanova- is probably the most popular college team of Philadelphia, but the market is over-saturated with Temple, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Penn
Marquette- is behind the Wisconsin Badgers in Wisconsin
St. John's- Syracuse, UConn are more popular in the NYC than the Johnnies
Xavier- is behind the Cincinnati Bearcats in the Queen City
Butler- is behind Indiana, Purdue in the Indianapolis
Providence- congrats you own the RI market FOX.
DePaul- is behind Illinois, Northwestern etc. in the Chicago market.
Seton Hall is behind Rutgers, and freaking Syracuse in the NJ market.

The conference has eye balls, but only really Villanova and Providence are the primary teams in their media market.


Primary teams is meaningless.

The status of "primary" changes with success and failure.(G-Town is not a big player in the DC area? Really?). (You think Illinois is a dynamo? I am a Big Ten guy and nobody has ever suggested that to me.) (Rutgers in BB? Really?).

I could go on but I think the point again is eyeballs.

You just named New York City, Philadelphia, the DC Beltway, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Chicago, and greater Boston.

There are a bunch of eyeballs in that megalopolis.

That justifies the money.
 
1. Yes, that's why UMD joined ...

This is a good post and has plenty of valid points. I still think there is some confusion about what we're discussing (for example I am absolutely in agreement that "markets" don't equal "ratings" or huge TV contracts, per se).

I'm not even sure how we got here, so I figure I'll just post my basic POV on all this stuff and if people think I'm a complete buffoon, I'm alright with that. Wouldn't be the first time on this board.

So here we are:

-- As to the original point of the thread: I like this catholic and don't think they're overpaid. I'm glad we are where we are from a football point of view but I don't really like it for hoops outside of UNC/Duke. It's fine, but I loved the old BE.

-- On expansion in general: I think a lot of the money is fool's gold (not all of it mind you, just a big chunk due to a massive increase in football spending that will accompany these TV deals). I think no team has any allegiance to it's conference. I still am baffled at what RU or UMD add to the B1G. I think the presidents of schools are smart, but are also panicking and don't want to be the odd school out. Makes a lot of planning short-sighted, IMO, and I really think these conferences will end up being bloated and watered down and will eventually revert to smaller, more regionally aligned conferences. Again, I may be an idiot but I have no idea why conferences like the ACC are dying to get a conference championship when no one goes, no one watches, and it has yet to yield a title game contender, let along participant.

-- I'm happy the cuse survived this alignment, but I don't think they are in a really stable conference and I think they're a looooonnngg way from being a "have" in college football. I know people love the SU name but it's mostly people who went there. I had a ton of friends from LI, NJ and CT in school. None were cuse football fans (in fact, the few who liked teh cuse liked cuse lacrosse). They were shocked SU was pretty decent (the McNabb era) but had absolutely no interest or knowledge of it. I don't think that's SU's fault, but I really don't think there is that much interest in college football in the northeast in general. That's a tough thing to overcome.
 
This is a good post and has plenty of valid points. I still think there is some confusion about what we're discussing (for example I am absolutely in agreement that "markets" don't equal "ratings" or huge TV contracts, per se).

I'm not even sure how we got here, so I figure I'll just post my basic POV on all this stuff and if people think I'm a complete buffoon, I'm alright with that. Wouldn't be the first time on this board.

So here we are:

-- As to the original point of the thread: I like this catholic and don't think they're overpaid. I'm glad we are where we are from a football point of view but I don't really like it for hoops outside of UNC/Duke. It's fine, but I loved the old BE.

-- On expansion in general: I think a lot of the money is fool's gold (not all of it mind you, just a big chunk due to a massive increase in football spending that will accompany these TV deals). I think no team has any allegiance to it's conference. I still am baffled at what RU or UMD add to the B1G. I think the presidents of schools are smart, but are also panicking and don't want to be the odd school out. Makes a lot of planning short-sighted, IMO, and I really think these conferences will end up being bloated and watered down and will eventually revert to smaller, more regionally aligned conferences. Again, I may be an idiot but I have no idea why conferences like the ACC are dying to get a conference championship when no one goes, no one watches, and it has yet to yield a title game contender, let along participant.

-- I'm happy the cuse survived this alignment, but I don't think they are in a really stable conference and I think they're a looooonnngg way from being a "have" in college football. I know people love the SU name but it's mostly people who went there. I had a ton of friends from LI, NJ and CT in school. None were cuse football fans (in fact, the few who liked teh cuse liked cuse lacrosse). They were shocked SU was pretty decent (the McNabb era) but had absolutely no interest or knowledge of it. I don't think that's SU's fault, but I really don't think there is that much interest in college football in the northeast in general. That's a tough thing to overcome.
1. It's hard to say whether or not they are overpaid. I guess that question will be answered at a later date. I do think that yearly home and homes with like-minded schools is close to ideal for a conference and the Catholic schools are close to that. It makes for compelling storylines. Throw in the fact that they do have talent (GU and Marquette), potential ('Nova, St. John's, DePaul, and Seton Hall), and locations in rich recruiting areas (NYC, DC, Philly, and Chicago), and I can see how the new conference has a chance to make a splash. Throw in Butler and Creighton and that only becomes more true. The rivalries are there, the names are there, and the potential is there. Their games will be fun to watch and, because of that, their games will likely get good ratings. However, Syracuse is in the ACC, and the ACC has Syracuse, Pitt, ND, UNC, Duke, Louisville, and a bunch of teams with potential but not consistency, like Wake Forest, FSU, Georgia Tech, Boston College, NC State, and (now) Miami. If the good teams stay good, and half the teams with the potential to be good actually are good any given year, then the ACC will be the best basketball conference ever, and it won't even be close. Joining the C7 wouldn't have been the end of SU basketball, and they aren't a joke, but we are on a whole different level in the ACC. I can see them being the #3 conference some years, but we are clearly #1. I do not envy them, but I am pretty sure that many of them envy us. However, I doubt that they would admit it.
2. Conference championship games generally make money*, and people generally don't turn down higher pay checks. I agree that regional conference are important, and I agree that schools should have something in common. In my opinion, with the exception of UL, the ACC is generally comprised of great academic institutions. Also, the ACC has Miami, Duke, Wake Forest, ND, Boston College, Syracuse, and Pitt, which are all private schools (well Pitt used to be Private and now it is semi-public). The next closes major college conference to that is the Pac-12 which has a grant total of two private schools; USC and Stanford. Beyond that, UNC, WF, Duke, and UNC are all in one state, and Clemson, VT, and UVA are in neighboring states. Even in the north, BC and Pitt are both rivals of SU, and BC and Pitt are both rivals of ND. Each of the 4 northern schools has a long history with 2 of the other 3 schools (If a ND - SU rivalry and a Pitt - BC rivalry is created, then each school will be 3 for 3). Finally, and this ties into the previous two points, the ACC has the only two Catholic BCS football-playing schools. We are not a random assortment of institutions. UL is the only true outlier, and they make $87 million a year in revenue, so I am willing to look the other way.
3. You seem to define "have" as Texas**, Michigan, Penn State, Notre Dame, and Ohio State. If that's the case, then everyone not named Oklahoma, Tennessee**, Florida and Nebraska is a "not have," and it's pretty much always been that way and it won't change in the foreseeable future. This might be an age thing, but I grew up 1,000+ miles from Syracuse and I knew who they were when I was a kid. Your friends either started watching in the 70's and stopped watching in the mid 80's, or started watching in the early-mid '00's. Everyone else, which I think is most fans, knows who we are and what we're about.
*Yes, I know FSU lost money, but that's just because the game's profits were split 12 different ways by the conference. The conference as a whole benefitted.
**I mean elite in the ticket office. Even these teams aren't on the same level in terms of on the field performance as the others.
 
I never accused anyone of bullying -- that was another poster. I also said the MAC combined with the Catholic 7 in hoops wouldn't have put me into a state of despair had we been left out. Yes, we are luckily in a much, much better situation. I simply said I would have liked that hoops conference and could've survived the football side of things.

I'd rather we discontinue basketball than not play major football.
 
1. It's hard to say whether or not they are overpaid. I guess that question will be answered at a later date. I do think that yearly home and homes with like-minded schools is close to ideal for a conference and the Catholic schools are close to that. It makes for compelling storylines. Throw in the fact that they do have talent (GU and Marquette), potential ('Nova, St. John's, DePaul, and Seton Hall), and locations in rich recruiting areas (NYC, DC, Philly, and Chicago), and I can see how the new conference has a chance to make a splash. Throw in Butler and Creighton and that only becomes more true. The rivalries are there, the names are there, and the potential is there. Their games will be fun to watch and, because of that, their games will likely get good ratings. However, Syracuse is in the ACC, and the ACC has Syracuse, Pitt, ND, UNC, Duke, Louisville, and a bunch of teams with potential but not consistency, like Wake Forest, FSU, Georgia Tech, Boston College, NC State, and (now) Miami. If the good teams stay good, and half the teams with the potential to be good actually are good any given year, then the ACC will be the best basketball conference ever, and it won't even be close. Joining the C7 wouldn't have been the end of SU basketball, and they aren't a joke, but we are on a whole different level in the ACC. I can see them being the #3 conference some years, but we are clearly #1. I do not envy them, but I am pretty sure that many of them envy us. However, I doubt that they would admit it.
2. Conference championship games generally make money*, and people generally don't turn down higher pay checks. I agree that regional conference are important, and I agree that schools should have something in common. In my opinion, with the exception of UL, the ACC is generally comprised of great academic institutions. Also, the ACC has Miami, Duke, Wake Forest, ND, Boston College, Syracuse, and Pitt, which are all private schools (well Pitt used to be Private and now it is semi-public). The next closes major college conference to that is the Pac-12 which has a grant total of two private schools; USC and Stanford. Beyond that, UNC, WF, Duke, and UNC are all in one state, and Clemson, VT, and UVA are in neighboring states. Even in the north, BC and Pitt are both of SU, and BC and Pitt are both of ND. Each of the 4 northern schools has a long history with 2 of the other 3 schools (If a ND - SU rivalry and a Pitt - BC rivalry is created, then each school will be 3 for 3). Finally, and this ties into the previous two points, the ACC has the only two Catholic BCS football-playing schools. We are not a random assortment of institutions. UL is the only true outlier, and they make $87 million a year in revenue, so I am willing to look the other way.
3. You seem to define "have" as Texas**, Michigan, Penn State, Notre Dame, and Ohio State. If that's the case, then everyone not named Oklahoma, Tennessee**, Florida and Nebraska is a "not have," and it's pretty much always been that way and it won't change in the foreseeable future. This might be an age thing, but I grew up 1,000+ miles from Syracuse and I knew who they were when I was a kid. Your friends either started watching in the 70's and stopped watching in the mid 80's, or started watching in the early-mid '00's. Everyone else, which I think is most fans, knows who we are and what we're about.
*Yes, I know FSU lost money, but that's just because the game's profits were split 12 different ways by the conference. The conference as a whole benefitted.
**I mean elite in the ticket office. Even these teams aren't on the same level in terms of on the field performance as the others.

OK, so I think we're in agreement on the C7 except for the "end of su hoops" comment. I think we could have been just fine in that conference and -- and I know I'm alone in this -- I have a slight question as to what happens when we're recruiting b'more and dc and philly now and playing nowhere near any of them. I can't imagine we'll lose recruits because of it, but it certainly is a different ballgame.

As for the ACC's potential in hoops, I agree it will be a very intriguing conference and I'll get into it. As a fan, I will absolutely miss the cities we played in b/c I traveled to those games and have plenty of buddies in those cities (NYC, pilly, DC and even provy). Also have a bunch of buddies who are uconn fans. There is something lost from a fan perspective and from a marketing perspective, however, when you start playing the vast majority of opponents from a completely different region of the country. And I do view us as an outlier when you consider that BC at 5+ hrs away is the closest school to Syracuse. Our profile may be similar to our new brethren but we are on an island with BC and maybe Pitt now that UMD is gone. Weird feeling.

You and i just disagree on SU's status as a football program. And peraps that has to do with you growing up 1000 miles from campus. Everyone knows hoops, lax people obviously know lax. Yes, we have a proud history of jim brown and the '59 team and ernie davis and all that -- but because the northeast is pro sports country, there are very few casual college football fans who can really tell you the first thing about cuse football. I think that makes us different than basically any program located in the south, southeast, midwest, and southwest. I can't really speak for the west coast.
 
OK, so I think we're in agreement on the C7 except for the "end of su hoops" comment. I think we could have been just fine in that conference and -- and I know I'm alone in this -- I have a slight question as to what happens when we're recruiting b'more and dc and philly now and playing nowhere near any of them. I can't imagine we'll lose recruits because of it, but it certainly is a different ballgame.

As for the ACC's potential in hoops, I agree it will be a very intriguing conference and I'll get into it. As a fan, I will absolutely miss the cities we played in b/c I traveled to those games and have plenty of buddies in those cities (NYC, pilly, DC and even provy). Also have a bunch of buddies who are uconn fans. There is something lost from a fan perspective and from a marketing perspective, however, when you start playing the vast majority of opponents from a completely different region of the country. And I do view us as an outlier when you consider that BC at 5+ hrs away is the closest school to Syracuse. Our profile may be similar to our new brethren but we are on an island with BC and maybe Pitt now that UMD is gone. Weird feeling.

You and i just disagree on SU's status as a football program. And peraps that has to do with you growing up 1000 miles from campus. Everyone knows hoops, lax people obviously know lax. Yes, we have a proud history of jim brown and the '59 team and ernie davis and all that -- but because the northeast is pro sports country, there are very few casual college football fans who can really tell you the first thing about cuse football. I think that makes us different than basically any program located in the south, southeast, midwest, and southwest. I can't really speak for the west coast.
1. You disagree with my "'end of SU hoops' comment?" The exact words that I used were: "[j]oining the C7 wouldn't have been the end of SU basketball..."
2. ND has more fans in NYC than Syracuse*. I don't think that we are on as much of an island as you think. Also, there is a lot of growth in the south. Diversifying the school's marketing strategy to account for shifts in the regional balance of power in this country isn't a bad idea IMO. I think that regional rivalries are important, but I think that we will be fine. BC, Pitt, and ND is enough with OOC games against UCONN and GU, and I think that the ACC ha sno sortage of regional rivalries. Half the conference is in NC and/or in a state that touches NC (1. UNC, 2. Duke, 3. NCSU, 4. WF, 5. UVA, 6. VT, 7. CU). Btw, keep in mind that we often play an early season tourney in MSG and we will play occassional OOC games at MSG. We will be well-represented in Boston, Pitt, NYC, Washington, and I would be amazed if we didn't play a big 5 Philly school on a semi-regular basis
*Albiet ND fans are mostly football fans.
3. I'm not sure who you talk to, but I don't know any casual sports fans who don't know anything about SU. Yes, their info might be 10-15 years old, but that isn't always a bad thing. The most common thing tat I hear was "you were good in the day but I haven't heard much about you recently." I respond by glossing over the GROB years and immediately sart talking about destroying WVU in the Pinstripe Bowl.
 
Just anecdotal 2 cents:

Over that last 25 years or so, I have live in several places around this country and virtually EVERY CFB fan I have met knows about Syracuse football and they usually consider Syracuse a strong foe (one not to be taken lightly). Several of those that I have met over the last several years even commented on what was actually wrong, knowing the GROB was bad for Syracuse and that Marrone has been good for Syracuse.
 

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