Frank the Tank

[Toga]

Frank is actually somewhat lucid here (for Frank).
http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/

 

[Chip]

Not really sure I agree with this comment:

"If the mighty SEC deems the Big 12 worthy to have their respective champions play each other, then by extension, the SEC sees the Big 12 as an equal."

We obviously know that the SEC sees no one as an equal. Especially a league that they just poached for 2 schools, and another 2 recently left to go to other major conferences.

I can see a couple reasons why the SEC wouldn't want to align with the ACC in a major bowl.

1. Even though the SEC knows it's superior, they also know what FSU and Miami once were, so they're not going to help provide an avenue that could prop up the only two schools in their geographic footprint who have successfully stolen headlines from the SEC in recent history.

2. SEC and ACC already have a few annual OOC games that most in the nation know about. Florida-FSU, SC-Clemson, Georgia-GT. A newer low level academic rivalry in Vandy-Wake (probably shouldn't be included in the same sentence, but the leagues work out so oh well). The new B1G-Pac-12 regular season game notwithstanding, you can generate more interest in a major bowl between 2 conferences that don't typically face each other.

 

[HtownOrange]

The "new" bowl game is nothing more than the current Cotton Bowl, where an SEC and Big 12 runner up play each other. The bowl is arranged for the champions unless the champion is in the playoff, then the runner up. Thus, assuming they each have a team in the playoffs, the game is a an"also ran" game consolation prize. If one or both conferences should fail to make the playoffs, then the game has little national impact, a nice game, but of no significance that season (rare as it may be).

I'm not concerned over the bowl game. I am concerned over FSU and Clemson/Miami/GATech leaving. To date, nobody has posted real numbers and I'm quite sure the Big 12 is NOT getting $25-$30MM as some posters may dream. I believe there may be a difference of $3MM-$5MM, but I would not jump for that, unless the playoffs excluded the ACC Champ outright - but that is another issue and is not likely to happen.

The SEC estimate is at $25MM and I cannot see the Big 12 getting the same. for the record, all TV deals are back loaded, like the ACC's deal. Don't let morons tell you that the ACC will get $14MM while the Big 12 is getting $20MM, if the $20MM number is correct, that is the average and would pay about $17MM currently.

Also, the 3rd tier rights is a red herring by FSU dreamers. They already have a deal for everything other than a body bad OOC football game and a few OOC tune up hoops games. Several still insist that this is worth a TV network of their own and others believe it is worth another $5MM. being generous, I would estimate $500K to $1MM tops.

Even then, it is still not worth being Texas' lapdog. Texas can leave anytime it wants to and it can afford to leave its rights with the Big 12, though we all know that would be negotiated.

 

[TexanMark]

Maybe Swofford needs to call the boys in and ask for a grants of rights..take a loyalty oath.

 

[Toga]

Maybe Swofford needs to call the boys in and ask for a grants of rights..take a loyalty oath.

 

[omniorange]

The "new" bowl game is nothing more than the current Cotton Bowl, where an SEC and Big 12 runner up play each other. The bowl is arranged for the champions unless the champion is in the playoff, then the runner up. Thus, assuming they each have a team in the playoffs, the game is a an"also ran" game consolation prize. If one or both conferences should fail to make the playoffs, then the game has little national impact, a nice game, but of no significance that season (rare as it may be).

I'm not concerned over the bowl game. I am concerned over FSU and Clemson/Miami/GATech leaving. To date, nobody has posted real numbers and I'm quite sure the Big 12 is NOT getting $25-$30MM as some posters may dream. I believe there may be a difference of $3MM-$5MM, but I would not jump for that, unless the playoffs excluded the ACC Champ outright - but that is another issue and is not likely to happen.

The SEC estimate is at $25MM and I cannot see the Big 12 getting the same. for the record, all TV deals are back loaded, like the ACC's deal. Don't let morons tell you that the ACC will get $14MM while the Big 12 is getting $20MM, if the $20MM number is correct, that is the average and would pay about $17MM currently.

Also, the 3rd tier rights is a red herring by FSU dreamers. They already have a deal for everything other than a body bad OOC football game and a few OOC tune up hoops games. Several still insist that this is worth a TV network of their own and others believe it is worth another $5MM. being generous, I would estimate $500K to $1MM tops.

Even then, it is still not worth being Texas' lapdog. Texas can leave anytime it wants to and it can afford to leave its rights with the Big 12, though we all know that would be negotiated.

All great points and similar ones to those I've been making over on CSNbbs.

I'd add the fact that it definitely looks like GT and Miami are holding the line and not even considering Big 12 membership since all of a sudden the talk has switched to Louisville, Pitt, and Maryland as the 2 more "eastern" additions and the SEC is advising the Big 12 to think long and hard about going to 14.

So, if this is true and we know Pitt and Maryland won't jump ship if GT and Miami do not, that leaves FSU with Clemson, WVU, Iowa State, Kansas, and K-State in their division with a cross-over rivalry game with Texas. How likely is FSU to jump knowing this up front?

Interesting times indeed.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[HtownOrange]

All great points and similar ones to those I've been making over on CSNbbs.

I'd add the fact that it definitely looks like GT and Miami are holding the line and not even considering Big 12 membership since all of a sudden the talk has switched to Louisville, Pitt, and Maryland as the 2 more "eastern" additions and the SEC is advising the Big 12 to think long and hard about going to 14.

So, if this is true and we know Pitt and Maryland won't jump ship if GT and Miami do not, that leaves FSU with Clemson, WVU, Iowa State, Kansas, and K-State in their division with a cross-over rivalry game with Texas. How likely is FSU to jump knowing this up front?

Interesting times indeed.

Cheers,
Neil

Good addition. GT and Miami know the ACC is a much more natural fit for them and an easier path. I will have to laugh when FSU is heading to Ames Iowa in November when they could have been playing in the Dome! And I cannot wait to see the stands when KState visits Tallahassee. Can you imagine the FSU fans even caring about this game? 50-60K?

I keep seeing posts declaring that the Big 12 will ensure that FSU is in the same division with Clemson, WVU, Texas and OU - can you say "Dreamer" (que Supertramp's "Dreamer" )

 

[kingottoiii]

All great points and similar ones to those I've been making over on CSNbbs.

I'd add the fact that it definitely looks like GT and Miami are holding the line and not even considering Big 12 membership since all of a sudden the talk has switched to Louisville, Pitt, and Maryland as the 2 more "eastern" additions and the SEC is advising the Big 12 to think long and hard about going to 14.

So, if this is true and we know Pitt and Maryland won't jump ship if GT and Miami do not, that leaves FSU with Clemson, WVU, Iowa State, Kansas, and K-State in their division with a cross-over rivalry game with Texas. How likely is FSU to jump knowing this up front?

Interesting times indeed.

Cheers,
Neil

As long as no one panics the ACC will survive even if FSU and Clemson leave. If that happens I would like to see the ACC add UConn and RU, as well as sign a GOR. The only school IMO that would think twice about agreeing to that is VT. They would be the only real FB school left. But lets be honest they have a better chance of making the playoffs in the ACC as the 4th best conference champ then they do by joining the SEC gauntlet. Besides VT I really think everyone else is happy and not looking to leave. Unless of course people panic and jump ship, which I doubt happens.

If FSU and Clemson are indeed gone I would like to see the divisions split like so:

Miami, GA Tech, Pitt, SU, BC, Wake, Duke
VT, UVA, UNC, NC St, MD, RU, UConn

So one division would have the 5 land grant schools plus two state run public schools. The other division would have the 5 private schools, a state aided school, and one state run public school. And it is pretty competitively balanced.

It would suck to lose FSU and Clemson for FB competitively, but it won't hurt financially for the next 15 years. Also it improves the ACC academics and BBall as well.

 

[TexanMark]

As long as no one panics the ACC will survive even if FSU and Clemson leave. If that happens I would like to see the ACC add UConn and RU, as well as sign a GOR. The only school IMO that would think twice about agreeing to that is VT. They would be the only real FB school left. But lets be honest they have a better chance of making the playoffs in the ACC as the 4th best conference champ then they do by joining the SEC gauntlet. Besides VT I really think everyone else is happy and not looking to leave. Unless of course people panic and jump ship, which I doubt happens.

If FSU and Clemson are indeed gone I would like to see the divisions split like so:

Miami, GA Tech, Pitt, SU, BC, Wake, Duke
VT, UVA, UNC, NC St, MD, RU, UConn

So one division would have the 5 land grant schools plus two state run public schools. The other division would have the 5 private schools, a state aided school, and one state run public school. And it is pretty competitively balanced.

It would suck to lose FSU and Clemson for FB competitively, but it won't hurt financially for the next 15 years. Also it improves the ACC academics and BBall as well.

I'd bite the academic bullet and take Louisville along with either Rutgers or UConn. SU needs less direct competition in the NE.

 

[Moontan]

If FSU and Clemson are indeed gone I would like to see the divisions split like so:

Miami, GA Tech, Pitt, SU, BC, Wake, Duke
VT, UVA, UNC, NC St, MD, RU, UConn

In that scenario, some ACC diehards would likely promote the "Big East"/"Yankee"/"North" Division (featuring: BCU, Miami, Pitt, RU, Syracuse, VPI, Yukon) vs. the "Real ACC[tm]"/"Rebel"/"South" Division (with: Duke, GA Tech, Maryland, UNC, NC State, UVA, Wake).

 

[Chip]

I'd bite the academic bullet and take Louisville along with either Rutgers or UConn. SU needs less direct competition in the NE.

You and King are depressing me. Let's hope FSU and Clemson stay smart about this. So the ACC can stay more interesting and I can continue the dream of not having games against UConn,RU and Louisville.

 

[kingottoiii]

In that scenario, some ACC diehards would likely promote the "Big East"/"Yankee"/"North" Division (featuring: BCU, Miami, Pitt, RU, Syracuse, VPI, Yukon) vs. the "Real ACC[tm]"/"Rebel"/"South" Division (with: Duke, GA Tech, Maryland, UNC, NC State, UVA, Wake).

But that may push VT out. IMO they are the key to holding the ACC from panic. if VT leaves I think it will have a domino effect.

 

[kingottoiii]

I'd bite the academic bullet and take Louisville along with either Rutgers or UConn. SU needs less direct competition in the NE.

Nah. If FSU and Clemson leave then the ACC will NEVER be a FB conference. At that point the ACC should never compromise on its core values of location, academics, and BBall. Louisville doesn't fit that. Also since we will never be playing for a playoff spot, it doesn't matter if we have competition in the NE. I rather play teams that are close by then teams far away so I can pretend that our program is playing real FB.

 

[TexanMark]

You and King are depressing me. Let's hope FSU and Clemson stay smart about this. So the ACC can stay more interesting and I can continue the dream of not having games against UConn,RU and Louisville.

Swofford is having his ass kicked by Neinas...apparently Swofford got off the SEC good boy list and Neinas (swolled his pride) and sucked up to the SEC and became the SEC's newest little play thing. If FSU and Clemson stay put the ACC can ride this out and stay relevant. If not we are still better off (assuming no one else leaves) and become and even better version of the Big East Circa 2000.

 

[kirbivore]

has this clown been right about anything?

 

[omniorange]

Swofford is having his ass kicked by Neinas...apparently Swofford got off the SEC good boy list and Neinas (swolled his pride) and sucked up to the SEC and became the SEC's newest little play thing. If FSU and Clemson stay put the ACC can ride this out and stay relevant. If not we are still better off (assuming no one else leaves) and become and even better version of the Big East Circa 2000.

Apparently the SEC and the Big 12 want to consolidate the south between them. I have to think even if Swofford hasn't pick this up or doesn't have the necessary tools to combat it that Delany has it figured out.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[kingottoiii]

has this clown been right about anything?

What has he been wrong about? He doesn't claim to have inside info and doesn't make predictions. He gives his opinion that is well thought out.

 

[SU2NASA]

has this clown been right about anything?

Well, Texas is in the Big Ten now aren't they?

 

[Chip]

Apparently the SEC and the Big 12 want to consolidate the south between them. I have to think even if Swofford hasn't pick this up or doesn't have the necessary tools to combat it that Delany has it figured out.

Cheers,
Neil

Cool. They can have the South. B1G has the North. ACC has the East. Pac 12 has the West. That covers my compass, so we're done.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Apparently the SEC and the Big 12 want to consolidate the south between them. I have to think even if Swofford hasn't pick this up or doesn't have the necessary tools to combat it that Delany has it figured out.

Cheers,
Neil

What I'm going to be interested in seeing is what Larry Scott does in the coming weeks. He very well may do nothing but if these ridiculous rumors come to fruition and he believes the B12 will solidify itself, I can't see him standing by and doing nothing while his conference loses ground in CFB and his avenue for future growth is blocked forever.

 

[HtownOrange]

What I'm going to be interested in seeing is what Larry Scott does in the coming weeks. He very well may do nothing but if these ridiculous rumors come to fruition and he believes the B12 will solidify itself, I can't see him standing by and doing nothing while his conference loses ground in CFB and his avenue for future growth is blocked forever.

Larry Scott is limited in what he can do by the Pac 12's standards: No religiously affiliated schools (Yeah, USC was founded by Methodists, but nobody should confuse USC with seminary), High level academics, Graduate research, and No military related schools (TAMU is the largest ROTC school but that really is not their focus). Thus, the only real schools the Pac 12 would be interested in are UT, Kansas, K-State, and Iowa State. They would take OU, OSU (Okie Dokie State) and TTech (or T-Blech as it is known down here) to get Texas, but without Texas, none of these three has a chance. Baylor, BYU and TCU are out. Boise St. lacks academics and research. Texas will not go to the Pac 12 unless they can keep the LHN or if it should fail and be done away with, they might reconsider.

Could the Pac-12 take Kansas, Kstate, Iowa State and hold their noses and take AFA, or someone else? That remains to be seen. I don't think those markets are sufficient to warrant the Pac 12 making that move. Could they talk to the first three and force Texas' hand? I don't think they can do that. Texas has a mind of their own and they would simply reload the cannon fodder with (pick any 3-4 schools).

 

[MaxwellCuse]

The PAC would probably prefer to take Texas, Oklahoma, OK State and Kansas. Two Top 5 FB programs and a periodically excellent FB school, a great BB school and 3 more than respectable BB programs. Problem is Texas might be stuck with "little brother" just like Oklahoma is. Kansas might also have a "little brother" problem.

I wouldn't go overboard worrying about any academic shortcomings that OK State or Texas Tech might have. Neither Washington State nor Oregon State are exactly "Public Ivy's". Boise State, on the other hand, has zero chance on the academic front. There are 4th tier Cal State's that are little more than 4-year community colleges that have higher graduation rates than BSU. Maybe if there is another round of expansion in 2055 Boise might have a crack at the PAC.

 

[kingottoiii]

Larry Scott is limited in what he can do by the Pac 12's standards: No religiously affiliated schools (Yeah, USC was founded by Methodists, but nobody should confuse USC with seminary), High level academics, Graduate research, and No military related schools (TAMU is the largest ROTC school but that really is not their focus).

I still think it was a mistake for the P12 not to take OU and Okie St. Sorry but OU is better than over half the P12 academically. Lets not pretend that the P12 is an academic conference, because it is not. Sure there are some great schools but there are an equal amount of crap as well.

If the P12 went ahead to 14 with OU and Okie St it would be a huge benefit to the P12. It would eliminate competition from the B12 both on the field and off the field (TV $). The P12 right now is clearly #4 on the field. Should FSU and Miami make a comeback then the P12 becomes #5. Not to mention being on the West hurts exposure. The P12 really needs another big program to get on par with everyone else.

Also taking OU and Okie St first helps to get Texas and KU. Once at 14, the P12 can go to KU and say now or never. Do you think at that point KU is gonna say no because of K St? Once they are on board there is only one slot left and Texas can leave without Tech, Baylor, or TCU. Texas can claim their hand was forced and the "tech" problem goes away.

Even if Texas says no at that point, you can settle for SD St or Colorado St. Yes they aren't attractive but getting OU FB/BBall, Okie St FB/BBall, and KU BBall makes the P12 a much stronger conference athletically without taking a hit academically.

 

[HtownOrange]

I agree that OU has improved its academics and is better than perceived. I think they would fit in withe the Pac 12, generally speaking. However, it is what the Pac 12 perceives which is important. The Pac 12 made this very clear by rejecting OU and three others not named Texas. It would have been a great move and they should have done it, either OU +1 or +3. I like your strategy, but the Pac 12 apparently could not get passed the smell test.