Frank tidbit

[SWC75]

 

[kcsu]

Im not so sure. The staff didnt handle the team well last year.

 

[hoopsupstate]

My biggest issue with all of our guards is that they have no clue how to ran a fast break. None of them know how to slow down to find an open teammate. None of them pass. They go full tilt, no matter if it’s one on three. We have no big time finishers at the rim. When was the last time we had a lob dunk from any of our forwards or guards? It used to be a common occurrence. This year no one can make the pass and no one can catch and dunk.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My biggest issue with all of our guards is that they have no clue how to ran a fast break. None of them know how to slow down to find an open teammate. None of them pass. They go full tilt, no matter if it’s one on three. We have no big time finishers at the rim. When was the last time we had a lob dunk from any of our forwards or guards? It used to be a common occurrence. This year no one can make the pass and no one can catch and dunk.

Howard is averaging nearly 6 assists a game. He would probably have more if Chukwu, Moyer, and Marek caught more of his passes.

 

[Cowtown]

I'm liking my signature more and more.



edit: I'm probably still going to lose the bet, but I guess it's the principle of the thing.

You know, I didn't mind Gillon so much. There are a lot of good basketball minds here, and all of them knew he would play largely for himself. That's just the way it is. But when he was good, he was like a girl so gorgeous you smacked yourself upside your head. And when he wasn't, he should have been parking cars down at the OnCenter. Trouble was you never knew which JG was going to show up.

 

[Arangeman]

The mistake was not going to Gillon sooner

 

[SoBeCuse]

The mistake was not going to Gillon sooner

Yes. You lost a little defense with Gillon but he filled it up certain games and when he chose to he could be a blur downhill creating havoc. Frank never could carry a team on his back with those outbursts saving the days like against NC St and Duke.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Define "better option". Even allowing for the occasional bone-headed play, Howard is carrying this team (along with Battle). If JB had better options to fill out his rotation ...

Right. He has nobody else. He was recruited over let’s not forget.

 

[OrangePA]

I'm glad Gillon played the NC State and Duke games last year.

Yeah, he had some nice moments last year - no doubt.

And yet his play ultimately, didn't advance the program - we didn't even make the NCAA Tournament.

So, yes, John Gillon was a fine player who could score points.

But, that's not really the point for me.

The point was that for long term considerations, I would have stuck with Howard - and taken some lumps - rather than go with a stop gap player for some short term relief - relief that was fairly meaningless in the end.

 

[br801]

Yeah, he had some nice moments last year - no doubt.

And yet his play ultimately, didn't advance the program - we didn't even make the NCAA Tournament.

So, yes, John Gillon was a fine player who could score points.

But, that's not really the point for me.

The point was that for long term considerations, I would have stuck with Howard - and taken some lumps - rather than go with a stop gap player for some short term relief - relief that was fairly meaningless in the end.

If they had been able to find just one more win down the stretch last season, they likely would have made the NCAAT, so committing to Gillon was indeed the proper decision. Had JB given substantially more time to Howard as you suggest (which probably wasn't even feasible considering his physical condition) they likely never sniff an NCAA bid. And given the way Howard has progressed this season, I'm not even sure what your point is here.

 

[patcuse]

Yeah, he had some nice moments last year - no doubt.

And yet his play ultimately, didn't advance the program - we didn't even make the NCAA Tournament.

So, yes, John Gillon was a fine player who could score points.

But, that's not really the point for me.

The point was that for long term considerations, I would have stuck with Howard - and taken some lumps - rather than go with a stop gap player for some short term relief - relief that was fairly meaningless in the end.

For long term considerations then they shouldn’t have played
Andrew White
Taurean Thompson
Tyler Lydon
Tyler Roberson
Dajuan Coleman
And shouldn’t have redshirted Moyer

You never play for next year

 

[CuseFaninVT]

For long term considerations then they shouldn’t have played
Andrew White
Taurean Thompson
Tyler Lydon
Tyler Roberson
Dajuan Coleman
And shouldn’t have redshirted Moyer

You never play for next year

Only one of those guys, Andrew White, was expected to be here just one year like John Gillon. You missed the point of his post completely. So surprising...

 

[patcuse]

Only one of those guys, Andrew White, was expected to be here just one year like John Gillon. You missed the point of his post completely. So surprising...

The point is you play your best players and try to win every game.

 

[OrangePA]

If they had been able to find just one more win down the stretch last season, they likely would have made the NCAAT, so committing to Gillon was indeed the proper decision. Had JB given substantially more time to Howard as you suggest (which probably wasn't even feasible considering his physical condition) they likely never sniff an NCAA bid. And given the way Howard has progressed this season, I'm not even sure what your point is here.

I have to be honest, I don't recall Howard's physical issue last year - just don't remember.

My feeling last year, as I watched Frank play, was that he had an impressive body - I like long PGs - seemed to see the court very well and appeared to be a pretty athletic guy who had good shooting technique.

It was obvious, however, that he gave away the ball too often and was not comfortable on the court. It was also obvious that JB laid into him a lot and that he did not seem to react well to it.

My feeling at the time was that he could develop but needed time on the court to get comfortable - and needed less of the intense feedback he was receiving.

I would have kept him out there and lived with the mistakes - with the hope that the mistakes would reduce with experience and that he would end up being a better overall player than Gillon - because of his size, his defensive attributes at the top of the zone and his vision.

We are seeing now the results of his growth, and yet he still gives the ball away too much.

I think he would be even better now if he had been give the ball last year on a full time basis.

That's my point.

I could be wrong.

 

[OrangePA]

The point is you play your best players and try to win every game.

Maybe.

In the end, I guess I saw Frank Howard as a better player than John Gillon.

 

[patcuse]

I have to be honest, I don't recall Howard's physical issue last year - just don't remember.

My feeling last year, as I watched Frank play, was that he had an impressive body - I like long PGs - seemed to see the court very well and appeared to be a pretty athletic guy who had good shooting technique.

It was obvious, however, that he gave away the ball too often and was not comfortable on the court. It was also obvious that JB laid into him a lot and that he did not seem to react well to it.

My feeling at the time was that he could develop but needed time on the court to get comfortable - and needed less of the intense feedback he was receiving.

I would have kept him out there and lived with the mistakes - with the hope that the mistakes would reduce with experience and that he would end up being a better overall player than Gillon - because of his size, his defensive attributes at the top of the zone and his vision.

We are seeing now the results of his growth, and yet he still gives the ball away too much.

I think he would be even better now if he had been give the ball last year on a full time basis.

That's my point.

I could be wrong.

I hear you. Franks injury wasn’t publicly known last year. Jim gave both players the opportunity to win the job and Gillon clearly won it

 

[721Comstock]

Maybe.

In the end, I guess I saw Frank Howard as a better player than John Gillon.

You'd be the ONLY one. Even JB eventually came around to that reality.

Now, part of that may have been Frank's injury, but - it was obvious that last year's team was a better team when JG got lots of run, and Frank didn't.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The point is you play your best players and try to win every game.

I know what your point is.

 

[Cowtown]

Maybe.

In the end, I guess I saw Frank Howard as a better player than John Gillon.

Well, they're different players, different styles. Gillon didn't know what to do without the ball. Frank certainly does, because he gives it away so often.

 

[RF2044]

The mistake was not going to Gillon sooner

Agreed. Last year's team gets looked down upon for not making the tournament, but they actually rallied after the disastrous non-conference performance, and delivered in ACC conference play, beating three top 10 teams. Despite having perhaps the worst preseason record in JB's tenure, they still came within an eyelash -- probably just one more win despite losing debacle games to St. John's, Uconn, and BC -- of qualifying for the tournament.

The main reason was that they went with an awful lineup early, that had a bunch of players in positions that their skill sets weren't suited for, with poor complimentary chemistry. It was obvious before the season that the lineup we marched out there initially had bad news written all over it. If JB hadn't waited so long to make changes, the team might have won a couple more games and rallied sooner.

 

[Fly Rodder]

If JB hadn't waited so long to make changes, the team might have won a couple more games and rallied sooner.

Seriously. If they held wins over the three losing clubs that they lost to (UConn, G'Town, & STJ), SU is 22-12 with a 10-8 conference record. That's a tourney team and one that could make the second weekend. FH started all three of those games (and played significant minutes in two) without contributing much besides TOs and PFs.

Good for Frank for improving. I didn't expect the shooting to develop so rapidly.

 

[orangecuse]

Maybe.

In the end, I guess I saw Frank Howard as a better player than John Gillon.

Absolutely no maybe's about it. You've been around the block a time or two too...JB plays in the moment and to win period. I have absolutely no beef with that, but there are pros and cons to everything. The con being, a traditionally weak bench. I think Dan Boner is solid and he made some accurate/honest points about SU in Saturday's broadcast, one of them was Syracuse seldom, through the years, gets much production from its bench.

 

[RF2044]

Seriously. If they held wins over the three losing clubs that they lost to (UConn, G'Town, & STJ), SU is 22-12 with a 10-8 conference record. That's a tourney team and one that could make the second weekend. FH started all three of those games (and played significant minutes in two) without contributing much besides TOs and PFs.

Good for Frank for improving. I didn't expect the shooting to develop so rapidly.

I am a HUGE Frank Howard fan -- have been ever since we recruited him. But it was readily obvious from observing practice last year that some of his capabilities [especially with regard to Gillon as his competition] had been greatly exaggerated, and then accepted as board fact as a function of the telephone game. There's a reason that the team seemed to be listless and going through the motions against Wisconsin, South Carolina, St. John's, Georgetown, BC, etc. and how quickly the team's performance changed once JB made the obvious lineup changes that put a more complimentary group out on the floor, at the right positions for their skills sets.

And make no mistake -- last year's team was tremendously flawed. Gillon was problematic on many levels, both in terms of playmaking limitations and in terms of defensive fit. But it appears that some posters view it through the lens of revisionist history b/c Howard is playing better now. Frankly, I don't think we get this year's version of Frank Howard if he didn't go through the crucible last year, and decide that he was going to tough it out and work hard to improve. Hats off to the kid.

 

[OrangePA]

Absolutely no maybe's about it. You've been around the block a time or two too...JB plays in the moment and to win period. I have absolutely no beef with that, but there are pros and cons to everything. The con being, a traditionally weak bench. I think Dan Boner is solid and he made some accurate/honest points about SU in Saturday's broadcast, one of them was Syracuse seldom, through the years, gets much production from its bench.

I have always felt that some coaches can coach a long bench - use a lot of players during a game - and some cannot.

I have never felt that Coach Boeheim was all that comfortable coaching a long bench.

 

[OrangePA]

You'd be the ONLY one. Even JB eventually came around to that reality.

Now, part of that may have been Frank's injury, but - it was obvious that last year's team was a better team when JG got lots of run, and Frank didn't.

Wow. I'm the only one.

I kinda like that!

I still see Frank Howard as a better player than John Gillon.

And, maybe I'm still the only one, but that's how I see it.