Frank tidbit

[SWC75]

Yeah, he had some nice moments last year - no doubt.

And yet his play ultimately, didn't advance the program - we didn't even make the NCAA Tournament.

So, yes, John Gillon was a fine player who could score points.

But, that's not really the point for me.

The point was that for long term considerations, I would have stuck with Howard - and taken some lumps - rather than go with a stop gap player for some short term relief - relief that was fairly meaningless in the end.

Jim goes to win in each season. he doesn't use one season to prepare for the next. And Howard started out as the the starter: his play opened the way for Gillon and his injuries prevented him from taking the spot back.

 

[RF2044]

Wow. I'm the only one.

I kinda like that!

I still see Frank Howard as a better player than John Gillon.

And, maybe I'm still the only one, but that's how I see it.

That might be true of this year, but it wasn't accurate last year. Frank's come a LONG way -- not the least of which is his maturity / poise, compared to last season.

Some kids wouldn't have put up with how things went down last season, and looked to transfer. Frank conversely used it as a learning experience, and is far better for it.

 

[SWC75]

Wow. I'm the only one.

I kinda like that!

I still see Frank Howard as a better player than John Gillon.

And, maybe I'm still the only one, but that's how I see it.

 

[OrangePA]

That might be true of this year, but it wasn't accurate last year. Frank's come a LONG way -- not the least of which is his maturity / poise, compared to last season.

Some kids wouldn't have put up with how things went down last season, and looked to transfer. Frank conversely used it as a learning experience, and is far better for it.

That's actually my point.

I thought last year that Howard had the body, the vision and the ability to be a pretty good player.

And I thought that last year he should have been given more time to develop and mature.

I think he be even further along this year had he been given the chance to take his lumps last year.

 

[br801]

That's actually my point.

I thought last year that Howard had the body, the vision and the ability to be a pretty good player.

And I thought that last year he should have been given more time to develop and mature.

I think he be even further along this year had he been given the chance to take his lumps last year.

He played his way out of the lineup on merit last year and then wasn't healthy. Why would it have been a good idea to keep running him out there for extended minutes? And why would you expect someone who coaches to win the game at hand to ever do that?

 

[RF2044]

That's actually my point.

I thought last year that Howard had the body, the vision and the ability to be a pretty good player.

And I thought that last year he should have been given more time to develop and mature.

I think he be even further along this year had he been given the chance to take his lumps last year.

Except that last year, Howard was a sieve defensively. He ran the team poorly, particularly against the quality opponents we faced early. He amassed stats against lesser competition, and then was substantially worse against better opponents. He was volatile, and had incidents on and off the court that showed that he wasn't "tough" mentally. The injury put him even further behind, at the same time that the team began to take off after he was benched. And please note that this is coming from an unabashed fan of Frank's.

If you want to argue that he had more potential because of his physical attributes, then no argument there. But there is a difference between potential and actualizing it, and Frank was far from actualizing it last year. Which is why Boeheim switched to Gillon and didn't look back.

Not sure whether Frank would have been further along if he hadn't been benched. Again, I think the crucible of going through that humiliation and being humbled is what has driven him to succeed, and also forged him into a fairly unflappable cat out there on the court now [compared to last year, when he wore his emotions on his sleeve].

 

[realorange]

That's actually my point.

I thought last year that Howard had the body, the vision and the ability to be a pretty good player.

And I thought that last year he should have been given more time to develop and mature.

I think he be even further along this year had he been given the chance to take his lumps last year.

As someone mentioned, Frank had a medical problem, some type of abdominal strain. He couldn't have played more.

 

[DBCooper]

That's actually my point.

I thought last year that Howard had the body, the vision and the ability to be a pretty good player.

And I thought that last year he should have been given more time to develop and mature.

I think he be even further along this year had he been given the chance to take his lumps last year.

This whole argument is based on what we know now - that we didn't make the tournament last year. It's easy to say , in retrospect, that we should have played Frank more. Gillon was the better option, given what we knew then.

 

[SoBeCuse]

That's actually my point.

I thought last year that Howard had the body, the vision and the ability to be a pretty good player.

And I thought that last year he should have been given more time to develop and mature.

I think he be even further along this year had he been given the chance to take his lumps last year.

RF sort of nailed it above. I didn’t want to go into a dissertation about it like I do from time to time. But, again, Frank was unplayable last year. Period. Gillon, as flawed as he was, saved the team in many varieties from a tragic potential free fall

 

[RF2044]

RF sort of nailed it above. I didn’t want to go into a dissertation about it like I do from time to time. But, again, Frank was unplayable last year. Period. Gillon, as flawed as he was, saved the team in many varieties from a tragic potential free fall

Full disclosure -- I want to be clear about something with respect to Gillon. As most who pay attention to recruiting know, I gushed about how amazed I was by what Gillon's video footage showed around the time he committed. So much so that I went back and watched some of his game footage, because I figured that there was no way that the highlight clips were what he was capable of.

To my surprise, a lot of what the clips showed wasn't far off. That said, I overestimated some of whis capabilities -- namely:

• I thought his ability to get to the rim would translate much better than it did
• I expected him to show more of a mid-range pull up game in the lane, which he did not show at all
• I thought that he was going to prove to be one of those waterbug ball handlers who makes play with his speed -- and was very surprised that his handle was surprisingly weak
• I didn't expect the consistency fluctuations, from a fifth-year player who had tons of starting experience under his belt

All in all, Gillon was a pretty good player with tremendous scoring / shooting capabilities, who probably gets a bad rap from the board undeservedly. But he wasn't quite as good as I expected him to be, largely due to his lack of handle. Despite that, he did a tremendous job taking care of the ball [almost to the point of overkill, a la Ennis], and he won games for us late at the line. When he got hot, he was practically unstoppable shooting the ball. But he was wildly inconsistent, often doing nothing for lengthy portions of the game, only to tack on 6-10 points in the final 3 minutes of games.

If he'd been a little more consistent, I think we would have easily won 3-4 more games. Ditto if he'd found his way into the starting lineup earlier in the season. Oh well.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Full disclosure -- I want to be clear about something with respect to Gillon. As most who pay attention to recruiting know, I gushed about how amazed I was by what Gillon's video footage showed around the time he committed. So much so that I went back and watched some of his game footage, because I figured that there was no way that the highlight clips were what he was capable of.

To my surprise, a lot of what the clips showed wasn't far off from his actual capabilities. That said, I overestimated some of his capabilities. Namely:

• I thought his ability to get to the rim would translate much better than it did
• I expected him to show more of a mid-range pull up game in the lane, which he did not show at all
• I thought that he was going to prove to be one of those waterbug ball handlers who makes play with his speed -- and was very surprised that his handle was surprisingly weak
• I didn't expect the consistency fluctuations, from a fifth-year player who had tons of starting experience under his belt

All in all, Gillon was a pretty good player with tremendous scoring / shooting capabilities, who probably gets a bad rap from the board undeservedly. But he wasn't quite as good as I expected him to be, largely due to his lack of handle. Despite that, he did a tremendous job taking care of the ball [almost to the point of overkill, a la Ennis], and he won games for us late at the line. When he got hot, he was practically unstoppable shooting the ball. But he was wildly inconsistent, often doing nothing for lengthy portions of the game, only to tack on 6-10 points in the final 3 minutes of games.

If he'd been a little more consistent, I think we would have easily won 3-4 more games. Ditto if he'd found his way into the starting lineup earlier in the season. Oh well.

Totally agree on all fronts.

 

[OrangePA]

This whole argument is based on what we know now - that we didn't make the tournament last year. It's easy to say , in retrospect, that we should have played Frank more. Gillon was the better option, given what we knew then.

I actually really liked Howard his frosh season.

I felt from the beginning of the year last year that JB should have bitten the bullet and played him - mistakes and all.

I felt that he was the kind of kid that just needed to play - and to mature by playing

Now, in all fairness, I'm not sure I knew about Howard's injury last year.

 

[Newhouser]

Frank is having a great season. My only wish now is that he would show a balance of tough love and patience with some of the less tested guys on the team. He seems to get in the face of MD and PC every game, probably for good reason, but A) Frank makes his share of mistakes and B) we are only going to have a chance the rest of the year if everyone contributes. There are some games we are playing 3 on 5 because the 3 won't involve the others,

 

[OrangePA]

As someone mentioned, Frank had a medical problem, some type of abdominal strain. He couldn't have played more.

Like I said I was not aware that he had a physical issue last season.

 

[rrlbees]

Like I said I was not aware that he had a physical issue last season.

Syracuse basketball's Frank Howard recovering from surgery