Frank

[orangecuse]

I thought it was apparent Frank had no legs under him. As he said himself, his shots came up short a lot. He just didn't have any energy because of the strep. However, after those two early awful turnovers, JB read him the riot act and he settled in and took care of the ball.

Okay, here it is again once and for all. Frank Howard played some point guard his senior year but he was learning the position at that juncture. We were the only, I repeat ONLY team to recruit him as a PG. He was known throughout his recruitment as a shooting guard. He even talked about looking forward to playing some PG his senior year and that he had a lot to learn since it was not his position.

He was a combo senior year but did play a fair amount of point guard. Why do people insist on saying he was a PG? It's not a big deal. He was supposed to continue to learn the position at SU.

The fact that he's been battling strep this week was not a secret. I thought he gutted it out. He signaled to Tyus to play PG on a few occasions because he needed a breather.

I've been a vocal critic but he's improved, especially as a shooter. I still have my doubts. His second turnover, he threw the ball passed Marek into the photogs and he demonstrably pointed, as if to blame Dolezaj. Those are the moments that bother me the most. That is not leadership.

I like the way he handles himself at the pressers.

He should be better next year if we cut his minutes and responsibility down but he's a senior and JB will lean on him...probably too much.

Excellent post!

 

[bpo57]

Scoop. All day, every day.

I have a feeling I think about Scoop like you do Frank. It's irrational and angry, but it's right in my mind.

I hear ya. I'm not angry, just calling it like I see it. Reasonable people can disagree on this stuff.

 

[bpo57]

I’m not sure where you’re getting this percentages from. MCW shot 39% overall.

He should have more assists. He was passing to Southerland, Fair and Christmas. Not Marek, Moyer and Chukwu.

And MCW had more steals, rebounds and lower turnovers per game. I hope you're not saying the two players are comparable in terms of performance and production.

 

[bpo57]

Probably not, but I've seen the SU careers of all the others in their entirety, and I never saw how any of those others performed when asked to never come off the court.

Gbinije averaged 37.9 minutes per game his senior year, essentially the same as FH's 38.5 this year.

 

[bpo57]

That's a tricky one. He has fewer opportunities for assists than most PGs but with assist opportunities come more turnover opportunities.

I'm afraid this one is going to have to remain subjective until/unless our offense has more flow next year and he plays normal minutes.

Very fair points. I would also add when you play more up tempo (as SU teams have done in the past) that will lead to more turnovers, too.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And MCW had more steals, rebounds and lower turnovers per game. I hope you're not saying the two players are comparable in terms of performance and production.

Its funny to think this could be true, and I don't disbelieve you (wow that's an ugly double negative). The most prominent memory I have of early MCW was the jump passes from under the basket where he was just starting the other team's fast break.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Gbinije averaged 37.9 minutes per game his senior year, essentially the same as FH's 38.5 this year.

G was still passing to more accomplished offensive players. Coondog was a catch and shoot guy. Not many of them on this year's team.

 

[br801]

Gbinije averaged 37.9 minutes per game his senior year, essentially the same as FH's 38.5 this year.

You're still a great nitpicker.

 

[721Comstock]

And MCW had more steals, rebounds and lower turnovers per game. I hope you're not saying the two players are comparable in terms of performance and production.

No rational person is going to say Frank is as good as MCW - our unicorn, Lottery Pick, NBA ROY PG.
But, a lot of his #'s are in the same neighborhood. Can't really dispute that.

And - he doesn't have remotely the same level and depth of talent around him, that MCW had.

MCW had:
Sr. Triche, Jr Fair, Sr. Southy to pass the ball to, plus Jerami, Rak, Coon-dog, and Jr. Baye doing his Matrix thing in the middle of the zone.

Frank being not quite as good as MCW does not = Frank is bad.

 

[bpo57]

G was still passing to more accomplished offensive players. Coondog was a catch and shoot guy. Not many of them on this year's team.

I agree but br801 was talking about comparing SU players that never came out of the game like FH. G was one of those players.

 

[bpo57]

No rational person is going to say Frank is as good as MCW - our unicorn, Lottery Pick, NBA ROY PG.
But, a lot of his #'s are in the same neighborhood. Can't really dispute that.

And - he doesn't have remotely the same level and depth of talent around him, that MCW had.

MCW had:
Sr. Triche, Jr Fair, Sr. Southy to pass the ball to, plus Jerami, Rak, Coon-dog, and Jr. Baye doing his Matrix thing in the middle of the zone.

Frank being not quite as good as MCW does not = Frank is bad.

I agree with a lot of what you say but I was not the one that mentioned FH as being comparable to MCW. I don't think the stats are as even as you state.

 

[bpo57]

You're still a great nitpicker.

Thx br, given your skills in that area I'm glad you recognize mine as well.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Thx br, given your skills in that area I'm glad you recognize mine as well.

 

[rrlbees]

I think a better measure would be assist to turnover ratio as opposed to per 40 mpg.

Why? We were talking turnovers. As to assists to turnover ratio, our low assists are as much a function of the receiver of franks passes. We have nobody down low that can consistently catch, turn and finish. We don’t have any pure shooters around him. There’s a reason SU as a team is last in the ACC in assists. Yet Frank is top 5. Give Frank a couple of inside finishers and even a bit better shooting around him and he’s averaging 8 apg, as others have said.

 

[moqui]

It's mediocre at best.

the proper statistic is turnover percentage, which adjusts for tempo.
frank's is 21.9 this year. Compare that to the pgs in some of our best seasons

2010
andy 25.5
scoop 21.4
brandon 25.7

2012
scoop 24.3
brandon 16.1

2013
mcw 24.0
brandon 20.6

not great but perfectly respectable number for frank this year

overall i think he's shown himself to be a competent lead guard & an outstanding defender. and tough, coming back from a very negative sophomore season, and gutting out wednesday night in a win that came from our defense.

 

[NateW]

50% from the field
3-3 FT
13 pts
1 turnover

Good burn Franky!

 

[rrlbees]

50% from the field
3-3 FT
13 pts
1 turnover

Good burn Franky!

He fouled out, so the usual suspects are killing him.