It's mediocre at best.
Frank
- Thread starter AZOrange
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It's mediocre at best.
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Not really considering how many he had early. 2.1 per 40 the last 13 regular season games. And I see you didn’t like the other post and ignored it.
br801
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Here are the turnovers per 40 minutes for some recent SU point guards:
2018 Howard 3.6
2016 Gbinije 3.0
2014 Ennis 1.9
2013 MCW 3.9
2012 Jardine 3.6
2012 Triche 2.4
2010 Jardine 3.4
2010 Triche 3.8
2009 Flynn 3.6
2008 Flynn 3.1
2003 Edelin 4.0
2003 GMac 2.8
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They’re all mediocre.
br801
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Why cherry pick certain games? Why not use all 20 ACC games instead of a 13 game stretch? You used per 40 minutes but another way to look at it is per possession. SU's style of play this year on both ends of the floor dictated that there were far fewer possessions than what most teams would have in a game and yet he still averaged well over three turnovers.
Cherry picking again, eh? What about 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 211, 2015 and 2017? Even still Howard is toward the bottom of the pack. Be curious to see how his shooting stats would compare to those other PGs. My bet he'd be down near the bottom on those as well.
Do yourself a favor and look at the stats of dozens of PGs around the country and Frank's stats (TOs, assist to turnover ratio, FG% and 3 pt FG %) are easily bottom quartile.
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Who’s cherry picking? I said he had a lot early on. Saying he finished strong isn’t cherry picking. Strange post.
AZOrange
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This is why I hate per 40 mpg stats. Frank’s are actually 40 mpg. I guarantee other production would go down with increased mpg
Cusefan0307
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His stats are about the same as MCW who ironically helped lead us to a 30 win season.
I don't get the complaining about Frank. The 4 and 5 are the reason we stink.
It's the same as when people complained about Triche when he was a point guard playing the 2. Dumb.
br801
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I wasn't cherrypicking. I just chose some bigger name point guards on some of SU's better recent teams to see how often those guys turned it over. You can draw your own conclusions.
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AZOrange
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Wait, your center is not supposed to pass it out when he’s 2 feet from the hoop?
And your 4 is not supposed to pump fake a wide open shot, dribble into the lane and get the ball stripped?
br801
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I've heard JB and our incompetent big man coaches actually require them to do that.
Finished strong? Averaged nearly 4 turnovers per game in his last five ACC games. Strange post.
Would you take Frank over any of those PGs?
CuseFaninVT
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Scoop. All day, every day.
I have a feeling I think about Scoop like you do Frank. It's irrational and angry, but it's right in my mind.
I think a better measure would be assist to turnover ratio as opposed to per 40 mpg.
CuseFaninVT
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No, not at all. Very few opportunities for assists on this team. Oshae doesn't like to shoot when he receives the ball. Marek and PC don't like to score at all. It's just not a fair comparison.
Not even close. MCW's assist to turnover ratio was nearly double that of FH in MCW's sophomore year. He shot five percentage points better from the field and nearly doubled FH's rebound totals. He was a helluva lot better on the defensive end, too. Frank's only edge was from three and both stunk in that regard.
Cusefan0307
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I’m not sure where you’re getting this percentages from. MCW shot 39% overall.
He should have more assists. He was passing to Southerland, Fair and Christmas. Not Marek, Moyer and Chukwu.
br801
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Probably not, but I've seen the SU careers of all the others in their entirety, and I never saw how any of those others performed when asked to never come off the court.
iommi
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I thought it was apparent Frank had no legs under him. As he said himself, his shots came up short a lot. He just didn't have any energy because of the strep. However, after those two early awful turnovers, JB read him the riot act and he settled in and took care of the ball.
Okay, here it is again once and for all. Frank Howard played some point guard his senior year but he was learning the position at that juncture. We were the only, I repeat ONLY team to recruit him as a PG. He was known throughout his recruitment as a shooting guard. He even talked about looking forward to playing some PG his senior year and that he had a lot to learn since it was not his position.
He was a combo senior year but did play a fair amount of point guard. Why do people insist on saying he was a PG? It's not a big deal. He was supposed to continue to learn the position at SU.
The fact that he's been battling strep this week was not a secret. I thought he gutted it out. He signaled to Tyus to play PG on a few occasions because he needed a breather.
I've been a vocal critic but he's improved, especially as a shooter. I still have my doubts. His second turnover, he threw the ball passed Marek into the photogs and he demonstrably pointed, as if to blame Dolezaj. Those are the moments that bother me the most. That is not leadership.
I like the way he handles himself at the pressers.
He should be better next year if we cut his minutes and responsibility down but he's a senior and JB will lean on him...probably too much.
Okay, here it is again once and for all. Frank Howard played some point guard his senior year but he was learning the position at that juncture. We were the only, I repeat ONLY team to recruit him as a PG. He was known throughout his recruitment as a shooting guard. He even talked about looking forward to playing some PG his senior year and that he had a lot to learn since it was not his position.
He was a combo senior year but did play a fair amount of point guard. Why do people insist on saying he was a PG? It's not a big deal. He was supposed to continue to learn the position at SU.
The fact that he's been battling strep this week was not a secret. I thought he gutted it out. He signaled to Tyus to play PG on a few occasions because he needed a breather.
I've been a vocal critic but he's improved, especially as a shooter. I still have my doubts. His second turnover, he threw the ball passed Marek into the photogs and he demonstrably pointed, as if to blame Dolezaj. Those are the moments that bother me the most. That is not leadership.
I like the way he handles himself at the pressers.
He should be better next year if we cut his minutes and responsibility down but he's a senior and JB will lean on him...probably too much.
kuethstheman
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That's a tricky one. He has fewer opportunities for assists than most PGs but with assist opportunities come more turnover opportunities.
I'm afraid this one is going to have to remain subjective until/unless our offense has more flow next year and he plays normal minutes.
