Freeman might not

[OttoinGrotto]

Who says if he goes to a Top 10 program that he's actually going to play?
He's weak and soft and in love with shooting 3 pointers.

Just a comically awful assessment of Freeman's game.

 

[Scooch]

Okay, money bags. SMH. Maybe if you're living on Park Avenue eating out every night at Applebee's and ordering the full entree instead of the the 2 for $20 Really Big Meal Deal it ain't!

LOL. Seriously. A 21 year old gets a $200K NIL deal. A good chunk of that goes to the feds and to his agent. Maybe he buys a nice car. Then… it’s not enough to buy a house in a good area. Not enough to invest and live off the earnings. It’s a nice payday. One that no one would turn down. But the guy still has to work the rest of his life. And it sure isn’t “more money than most people make in their lifetime”!

 

[JKinPhilly]

not wringing my hands over losing anyone off the worst team I've seen in my 40+ years of watching SU hoops

 

[OttoinGrotto]

LOL. Seriously. A 21 year old gets a $200K NIL deal. A good chunk of that goes to the feds and to his agent. Maybe he buys a nice car. Then… it’s not enough to buy a house in a good area. Not enough to invest and live off the earnings. It’s a nice payday. One that no one would turn down. But the guy still has to work the rest of his life. And it sure isn’t “more money than most people make in their lifetime”!

Well well well now we know who orders more than just the Triple Dipper when they go to Chili's, Mr. Fancy Pants.

(fwiw I completely agree with you)

 

[orangecuse]

The NBA has moved to it's new apron system and that will greatly help the mid and small market franchises. Teams like my Celtics can run over the cap for a couple seasons but then the apron penalties will crush them. That'll help the OKCs of the league.

For all the grief MLB gets about the advantage large market teams have, it's really only been the Dodgers that's converted that advantage into pennants and titles in the past decade. It sure hasn't helped the Mets, Cubs, Angels, etc. Baseball is still built so that lower spending teams can compete at the highest levels if they're smart. The money mostly lets big market teams buy their way out of mistakes. And let's not forget that MLB does have substantial taxes and penalties for consistent high spending that most teams, save for the Mets and Dodgers, greatly prefer to avoid.

Time will tell on the NBA front...

Well, Houston had been pretty dominant there for a bit. In regards to the aforementioned teams you alluded to that "sure didn't help," I'd reply by saying, it at least clearly puts them in the legit game (realistically) to do so. And that, moreover, is the broader scope.

Obviously, other tangibles/variables come into play relative to winning titles, etc. However, don't be kidding yourself, those larger market teams in MLB clearly have the advantage. I mean, when is the last time a mid-market type team signed any of those top $$$ free agents...

 

[kcsu]

I think this is spot on. He has to come back for another year because he is not making the league next year. He's got one more year to show he's got first round game. Why would he trust that to happen here?

Melo

 

[Ghost]

LOL. Seriously. A 21 year old gets a $200K NIL deal. A good chunk of that goes to the feds and to his agent. Maybe he buys a nice car. Then… it’s not enough to buy a house in a good area. Not enough to invest and live off the earnings. It’s a nice payday. One that no one would turn down. But the guy still has to work the rest of his life. And it sure isn’t “more money than most people make in their lifetime”!

Maybe if you just bought a Nissan Versa instead of a nice car you'd never have to work again! My friend Dale says they're very reliable cars. Gas mileage is outstanding!

Concur. The NBA used to have a 75% bankruptcy rate or some wild statistic like that - and they were actually making big dollars. I still remember "NBA Live" or something talking to maybe Erick Barkley (???) after he was drafted and walking around NYC (**I'm not sure if it was him though**).

He went through all the stuff he had bought after getting drafted. A house for himself, his mom, his sister, his dad, this car, that car, more cars.....and his contract was NOT big at all. Even at a young age the math didn't quite add up. It sounded like he had already taken on like $10M in debt...off his $1.25M contract. LOL

 

[CuseCPT]

The issue is that Cuse is a feeder program now. Any talented freshman is leaving the next season after we gave them the best deal out of high school. Why waste time and money on them when those resources can be moved to someone proven at this level that can help you win now. Even upperclassmen with success like Maliq leave. Gotta break the cycle somehow.

Syracuse doesn’t have the luxury of building for the future anymore.

I have a theory that freshmen recruits are becoming fools' gold. You pay for them to make their freshmen mistakes with you, they aren't good enough to win it all because they are still freshmen, then they leave after one year to chase the league or to a bigger bag somewhere else.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I have a theory that freshmen recruits are becoming fools' gold. You pay for them to make their freshmen mistakes with you, they aren't good enough to win it all because they are still freshmen, then they leave after one year to chase the league or to a bigger bag somewhere else.

Then what you're saying is that your program has no value other than the NIL offer.

 

[Bayside44]

Time will tell on the NBA front...

Well, Houston had been pretty dominant there for a bit. In regards to the aforementioned teams you alluded to that "sure didn't help," I'd reply by saying, it at least clearly puts them in the legit game (realistically) to do so. And that, moreover, is the broader scope.

Obviously, other tangibles/variables come into play relative to winning titles, etc. However, don't be kidding yourself, those larger market teams in MLB clearly have the advantage. I mean, when is the last time a mid-market type team signed any of those top $$$ free agents...

Houston cannot hold on to Kyle Tucker and Alex Bregman. Even the Mets and Alonso...

Orioles will at best keep one of those guys.

Big markets with the TV deals gobble up all the real FAs.

 

[orangecuse]

The issue is that Cuse is a feeder program now. Any talented freshman is leaving the next season after we gave them the best deal out of high school. Why waste time and money on them when those resources can be moved to someone proven at this level that can help you win now. Even upperclassmen with success like Maliq leave. Gotta break the cycle somehow.

Syracuse doesn’t have the luxury of building for the future anymore.

It's such a harsh reality coming to terms with the fact that SU nowadays is a feeder type program. Who would've ever believed it just a relatively short time ago?

I generally agree on the talented freshmen take. However, SU is quite culpable in its current state, as it voluntarily placed itself there by their own actions, in-actions, etc. Until SU decides on what type of player it chooses to be in the current landscape, etc., they will struggle mightily getting "someone proven at this level." And, sadly, only being in a position to choose from the pool of, let's just say, proven mid-major types, resembling the likes of our current transfers, roster, etc.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's such a harsh reality coming to terms with the fact that SU nowadays is a feeder type program.

The thing a lot of folks are glossing over is that they're thinking program first.

The current setup is not program-centric. It's player-centric. Ergo, all programs are feeder type programs in some form or another if the player chooses. The combo of NIL and the immediate eligibility transfer make it so.

Some of you can't handle that we don't win as much as we used to and this season we're losing a lot more than we used to. It's allowing loser mentality to infect your thinking. I'm not saying to ignore reality. But I am saying that way too many are being far too deterministic in these conversations. The only actual instance of our program serving as a "feeder" is Maliq going to Duke.

That's it. Everything else is speculation. Maybe more of our fans should grow a set/a lady set/a non-binary set and adapt. There were still be players, games will still be played. In the player-centric world it's incumbent on programs to understand how they offer value.

 

[Scooch]

Well, the conference is now basically Duke and the 17 dwarfs.

I’ll add… credit Scheyer for handling the transition from K about as well as humanly possible. He kept the program relevant in its first couple years post-legend. Won a lot of games, got decent tourney seeds. And most critically, that kept the brand strong and relevant.

Now here we are in year 3 and he’s luring the top HS recruit in the country and has his pick of dozens of high impact portal players.

Granted, he didn’t have to rebuild, just maintain. But that’s also support for the concept that legends should leave when things are good. Not in their 8th year of decline.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Everyone needs to stop torturing themselves with who could be leaving, etc. Here is how i approach ALL college athletics now.

Every single player is a one year free agent. Everyone. If they stay 2 years great. If they happen to stay 3 years even better. Noone is staying 4 years anymore. This is reality and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

I never get attached anymore to players. Its never ever ever going to be like it was so we just have to hope for the best.

I dont know how anyone can get into college coaching in todays world. Its just awful what these coaches have to go through year in and year out.

This makes it very hard to stay engaged when your team is crap. How few of these guys will be here next year. This year is already a dumpster fire. There might even be a new coach. This feels like one of those 4-8 seasons under Dino, where you don't even check the schedule after a while. I am not alone in this feeling. Nobody was at the last game. With a 4 PM Saturday start against Notre Dame, that's about as good a chance of a decent crowd (short of Duke or UNC) as you could hope for.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The thing a lot of folks are glossing over is that they're thinking program first.

The current setup is not program-centric. It's player-centric. Ergo, all programs are feeder type programs in some form or another if the player chooses. The combo of NIL and the immediate eligibility transfer make it so.

Some of you can't handle that we don't win as much as we used to and this season we're losing a lot more than we used to. It's allowing loser mentality to infect your thinking. I'm not saying to ignore reality. But I am saying that way too many are being far too deterministic in these conversations. The only actual instance of our program serving as a "feeder" is Maliq going to Duke.

That's it. Everything else is speculation. Maybe more of our fans should grow a set/a lady set/a non-binary set and adapt. There were still be players, games will still be played. In the player-centric world it's incumbent on programs to understand how they offer value.

One quibble, Otto. The "loser mentality" is not the fans, it's the players.

They are the ones who are not even competitive from the beginning of game after game after game.

People go to the games with their friends or families to have fun. It's not supposed to be some sort of penance that we have to suffer through, when most of the locals didn't even go to SU. We townies form the backbone of the fanbase.

 

[orangecuse]

Houston cannot hold on to Kyle Tucker and Alex Bregman. Even the Mets and Alonso...

Orioles will at best keep one of those guys.

Big markets with the TV deals gobble up all the real FAs.

Yeah, although Houston plays in this arena. They traded Tucker with one year left on his contract and got a couple of players in return they feel can help strengthen their infield and pitching rotation, along with a receiving a decent looking prospect.

Bregman at 30, IMO, has had his better days behind him, Houston likely felt the same way and no longer worth the excess coin. Even teams that play in this arena win some and lose some, but at least they can play there.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think one problem with NIL, and one of the big reasons old school coaches are leaving the game is the power the agents and players have. College basketball is nothing more than one year deals. How do you motivate a kid that is already raking in more than most people make in a lifetime? If he’s not going 100% each and every practice and game, what do you do? Bench him? Make him run sprints in practice? The kid can just shutdown and plan his exit strategy. It’s a slippery slope. It’s now the NBA without contracts, incentives, and guardrails. Having the right players with the right character to fit your playing style is so much more critical now, and keeping them engaged in the vision and direction is a must. Red’s problem appears to be that he hasn’t quite figured out HIS system, which leads to not knowing which players will thrive, and rolling the dice on who he brings in. It all starts at the top. Red is transitioning from good cop to bad cop and trying to navigate a very difficult environment to succeed in. I see no focus in any facet of our play.

As to NIL, the schools must be given the power to engage in contracts beyond one year and throw in incentive-based performance payments. You stop the tampering by locking a player in for two years, with specifically designed clauses that would allow the player leave after one year if say the coach leaves or is fired, they declare for the draft, etc.

Red is in a very difficult position, and he doesn’t have time to tinker anymore. We’re in the middle of a season and have no set A-team. That’s on the coaches. Yes, losing JJ and Donnie have presented problems and definitely cost us wins, but the issues are deeper. When you lose multiple games by 20 points over two seasons with two different teams, there is a culture problem. SU teams never gave up in the golden JB era. Never. That’s why we’re Cardiac Cuse, for crying out loud. Now we’re flatline Cuse. 20 point losses are inexcusable. Red needs to decide how he wants this team to play. He can’t play wide open and fast with minimal defense if we can’t score. Gotta go back to fundamentals. I’d rather see us play boring, lockdown defensive ball, like UVa did, and win than watch what we have now. Every single game it seems a new team takes the floor, and we play differently than the last game. No structure, no consistency, no continuity. At least with the 2-3 we had an identity. We have no identity, and that’s a problem.

Outstanding post, Pete! So many good thoughts in there!

 

[JonB]

He's been awful compared to the other hyped and highly ranked freshmen this draft class looked amazing and 10 deep of really good NBA players. Donnies been a bust compared to them.

He's probably good enough that he doesn't have to drop down a level to be guaranteed 30-35 mpg but if he goes to somewhere like Kentucky he could end up very upset about his role.

Red has been awful developing guys Judah was a sure thing first round pick when he came back that summer.

I disagree with this statement. Does anybody think John calipari developed his players? The vast majority of NBA players are already NBA players are on the verge of being NBA players when they set foot on a college campus.

 

[Marsh01]

This makes it very hard to stay engaged when your team is crap. How few of these guys will be here next year. This year is already a dumpster fire. There might even be a new coach. This feels like one of those 4-8 seasons under Dino, where you don't even check the schedule after a while. I am not alone in this feeling. Nobody was at the last game. With a 4 PM Saturday start against Notre Dame, that's about as good a chance of a decent crowd (short of Duke or UNC) as you could hope for.

I am in this boat. No clue who we play, when we play. If we win fine, if we lose oh well. Its the same as the giants football season went for me. You just lose interest knowing its not going to get better.

 

[UpstateSM]

Can’t win no NIL.

Cant compete with SEC and Big 10.

Forget Big East schools have been successful they are lucky.

Can barely Beat Youngstown state no NIL.

Cant beat Wake, the Hoyas and ND without the second coming of the Pearl, JJ Starling.

Red won 20 games last year he’s doing great.

Long live ISO ball and screw good shooting.

Blah Blah Blah.

No joke the geezer in front of me said that losing JJ was worse than losing Pearl ever would have been. He also told me Louisville was a Final Four team last game.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I disagree with this statement. Does anybody think John calipari developed his players? The vast majority of NBA players are already NBA players are on the verge of being NBA players when they set foot on a college campus.

The same people that projected him to be drafted a few months ago are the same ones who have put others in those spots.

Maybe him missing every step back 3 all year matters to scouts idk. If we don't get a second year I don't blame him. We are a disaster with this coach.

 

[phil77]

For players, it isn't just about $$$$. They just don't get to the place that gives them the most money it is a combination of things. Style of play, Development, Getting me to NBA, Opportunity to showcase on big stage March and PrimeTime games, Relationship with Coach and Teammates, Game Day environment.

$$$$ - We aren't going to go down this road again

Style of play - First it was the zone and that defense wasn't preparing you for the NBA. Now our lazy uncreative ISO system on offense we have been running for 20 years is outdated and isn't run in the NBA. The NBA runs offense like this Kentucky/Alabama game. We don't offer that here.

Development - We are getting the rep of where top-rated prospects come to die. We are getting some top
10 guys, McDonald All-Americans, top 20 guys, top 50 guys, top 100 guys when is the last time we got someone drafted in the 1st round? When was the last time someone improved their draft stock coming to Syracuse?

These are big things that current players look at. We don't play a modern style of basketball, we don't get guys drafted, we aren't going to the tournament, and we can't overpay. If you can't overpay then you better do the other 3.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Just a comically awful assessment of Freeman's game.

How many times has he had the ball ripped from his hands on a defensive rebound? At least 3 or 4 a game?

He averages fewer blocked shots per game than EDDIE LAMPKIN, the guy who can't jump over a phone book, and actively turns away from opposing players coming to the rim.

His DBPR rating, which you guys used to hammer certain other guys on the team, is NEGATIVE 0.08.

He is rated the 7th "best" defender on our team out of the 10 guys who have played enough minutes to have a rating. And I should have to remind you that is among the worst defensive teams in all of college basketball.

So tell me again. "Soft"? "Weak"? Yeah, that's what I see. There is a reason that Red wasn't playing him 30-35 minutes a game, as you might ordinarily expect when he gets your highest rated recruit since Melo.

It's because he doesn't play any defense.

You're the one who is kidding yourself if you think Donnie walks into a starting job at a Top 10 team next year. Won't be any more likely than Judah getting drafted.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Just a comically awful assessment of Freeman's game.

And let's talk about the offense.

He's taking 27% of his shots from three, when he's built like Kevin Durant and can leap over his defender for a clean look at the basket anywhere within 10-15 feet.

He's shooting 56% inside the arc. He should do more of that, but he doesn't.
If he did, that would be more "winning basketball", how the game should be played.
Assert your dominance and make them stop you.

Part of that is up to player's personality, and the other part is coaching to unleash the animal inside guys who need to play physically to thrive.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Houston cannot hold on to Kyle Tucker and Alex Bregman. Even the Mets and Alonso...

Orioles will at best keep one of those guys.

Big markets with the TV deals gobble up all the real FAs.

The Mets just spent $700 million on a free agent and it wasn’t their only signing. Alonso isn’t getting signed because no team wants to give an aging 1b with average or less defense a long term big money deal. Same with Bergman.

More money doesn’t solve the problem. It’s an easy answer for people to give but it’s an excuse not a solution. Ultimately a team, regardless of the sport or even industry, still needs to think creatively and come up with ways to solve their issue. If SU can’t compete with peer schools because they don’t have $5-7m for NIL then shut it down. It’s a waste of money.

If any of my managers came to me and said that they can’t do something because they need double the budget, I’d ask them what else have they tried.