Freshmen need to play more

[Quazzum69]

The lack of playing time is really going to hurt the team (a) later in the season, (b) in the case of foul trouble or injury and (c) recruiting highly rated high school players.

If you look at the playing time so far this season that other ESPN 100 recruits are getting, Coleman, Grant and Cooney are all below the average for their respective positions. Coleman ranks 24th out of 35 in mpg for centers and power forwards. Grant ranks 35th out of 42 in mpg for forwards. Cooney would be 26th out of 31 guards (I'm not considering other redshirt freshmen, just ones on the 2012 list).

It is still early in conference play and the mpg numbers include mostly OOC games, but SU hasn't exactly played powerhouse teams so I don't expect these three to play very much down the stretch, which is unfortunate. I'm not at the practices and I obviously don't know every nuance of the 2-3 zone like JB does, but at some point you need to play your star recruits (especially when you've been in recruiting battles with Calipari over them), even if it weakens you temporarily. It would be nice to see freshmen develop over three-four years and be an apprentice for a year or two, but that's not the landscape of college basketball anymore. For better or for worse, it seems Boeheim is still in the "traditional" mindset.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think it's up to them. If they were doing more with the PT they're getting, they'd be on the floor a whole lot more than they are.

 

[Libero2]

The guy has now won905 games, I think he knows how to win games, and how to develop players, and how to recruit quality talent to the program.

Why don't we let Boeheim make those decisions on his own? I think he's proven he knows what he is doing by now...

 

[tbonezone]

cooneys a frosh? looks more like a bosley hair club candidate.

 

[RF2044]

I think it's up to them. If they were doing more with the PT they're getting, they'd be on the floor a whole lot more than they are.

Agreed. In particular, I'd love to see Coleman develop into more of a contributor--but it is pretty clear that JB has very little confidence in him. Especially on the defense end.

 

[SoBristol]

I think it's up to them. If they were doing more with the PT they're getting, they'd be on the floor a whole lot more than they are.

Oddly, it is also up to the starting group (including James, not Coleman as he is a nominal starter until proven otherwise) to get a lead against a weak opponent like Providence. Last night, the starters struggled, so JB couldn't give the frosh much time.

 

[CorduroyG]

if cooney knocks down a couple 3s he'd get more pt. if coleman would stop airballing layups and being lost on defense he'd get more pt. this isnt rocket surgery. jb plays to win every game, i love that about him, its up to the players to force jb to play them.

 

[PoppyHart]

Some kids look like they have the ability to really progress w/in a season. Others don't.

Melo wasn't going to improve enough to make a difference, but I think Rak could've if he played serious minutes. I think Grant is more in the Rak camp, while Coleman is probably more of a Melo. That said, without a contribution from Coleman or Grant I can't see this team winning 5 or 6 games in the tourney. Maybe, maybe 4, if the matchups are right or we shoot lights out.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you tank games to develop players, but there seems like there's gotta be a middle ground. You can't just roll the dice and hope it doesn't come up snake eyes.

 

[iommi]

The guy who shouldn't be on a short leash is Grant. He plays hard on both ends, is an excellent defender, does not seem overwhelmed one bit, is more athletic than anyone guarding him and is ready to go. The only chink in his armor has been ft shooting.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

JB doesnt play guys in games just to get them ready for down the line. This is part of the deal with JB. If you arent helping him win TONIGHT..you aren't playing. I'll take the results...but I do believe it has hurt us in past March runs.

 

[tbonezone]

i might also add that no one last january was talking about playing without fab in the tourney. sh#t happens!

(edit. i'm sure pretty the premium board will tell you they knew)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Oddly, it is also up to the starting group (including James, not Coleman as he is a nominal starter until proven otherwise) to get a lead against a weak opponent like Providence. Last night, the starters struggled, so JB couldn't give the frosh much time.

Very true.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

The lack of playing time is really going to hurt the team (a) later in the season, (b) in the case of foul trouble or injury and (c) recruiting highly rated high school players.

but at some point you need to play your star recruits (especially when you've been in recruiting battles with Calipari over them), even if it weakens you temporarily. It would be nice to see freshmen develop over three-four years and be an apprentice for a year or two, but that's not the landscape of college basketball anymore. For better or for worse, it seems Boeheim is still in the "traditional" mindset.

I would like to see the youngsters play more, but not at the expense of losses. Your reasons do not cut it for me.

a. How is playing the players that have seperated themselves as better going to hurt you later in the season? Usually playing the better players is a pretty much time honored way to get the most wins.
b. JB will be playing the backups just enough to keep the foul plagued stars to be there at the end. That is the way it was a decade ago. Unfortunate to see it go back to that, but there does seem to be an obvious seperation now to the 5 he is going to want out there at the end of the game.
c. It hasn't hurt recruiting so far. And there can be a distinct advantage to recruiting to the 2 and done crowd. It helps the stability of the program.

I really had hoped to see more of the frosh. I thought DC2 would earn time with his O. I thought Cooney would earn time by being a designated 3 point threat. Neither happened. Now there seems like a big drop off if either go onto the floor.

 

[iommi]

Oddly, it is also up to the starting group (including James, not Coleman as he is a nominal starter until proven otherwise) to get a lead against a weak opponent like Providence. Last night, the starters struggled, so JB couldn't give the frosh much time.

Spot on. Team could use a blowout. Rutgers turned out to be a decisive win but the first 12 minutes were very close. We need a game where we establish a big lead early and maybe JB will be more willing to give Grant, Cooney and Coleman more floor time.

 

[orangejunkie]

JB's not going to play freshmen just to give them more playing time for later in the season, especially in a road game in a hostile environment. JB plays to win now. That's pretty much the way all coaches coach, at least the successful ones. In a tight game, especially in the second half he will shorten his lineup. That is always the way he has coached. I coach a different sport at a very different level. I play the bench kids in games where I am confident we will win, not in the nail biters...

 

[SoBeCuse]

I was disappointed to see Grant get yanked. I sort of missed it but my brother said he checked in and fumbled or couldn't catch a pass then poof...gone.

 

[Knicks411]

c. It hasn't hurt recruiting so far. And there can be a distinct advantage to recruiting to the 2 and done crowd. It helps the stability of the program.

Yeah, if it was going to hurt, you'd think it would have hurt the recruiting by now

 

[pfister1]

I agree with Iommi that Grant has probably earned some run, and shouldn't necessarily be on a first mistake and your out kind of leash the other two haven't done enough to earn more minutes than they're getting and that is saying a lot with respect to Cooney because we could desperately use someone who is capable of giving BT and MCW each 5 minutes on the bench a game.

 

[pfister1]

I was disappointed to see Grant get yanked. I sort of missed it but my brother said he checked in and fumbled or couldn't catch a pass then poof...gone.

I didn't think it was a particularly good pass. I thought it was as much on the pass as on the catch, but you're right that the failure to make the catch caught JB's ire and got him yanked.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not worried about it hurting recruiting. Those guys have already been recruited over.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[rstone7727]

I'm not worried about it hurting recruiting. Those guys have already been recruited over.

Eh? By who? You don't normally recruit over MikeyD players, you supplement them. I think Trevor may be in that boat though.

 

[Flacusian]

I was disappointed to see Grant get yanked. I sort of missed it but my brother said he checked in and fumbled or couldn't catch a pass then poof...gone.

JB has been consistently clear regarding playing time. The players that give us the best chance at winning are the ones who are going to play. JB also does not give much credence to the importance of who starts vs. who comes in off the bench. He has pointed out on numerous occasions that some players who come in off the bench end up getting "starters minutes" ergo: considerable playing time.

It seems abundantly clear that in JB's eyes the freshmen are not ready yet to contribute. I would guess he would play them more if their play was more of an asset than a liability. He is like Donald Rumsfeld in that " As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

JB runs the team more in the style of a dictator than a benevolent patriarch. He is fiercely loyal to his players, especially those who have endured waiting their turn. What sometimes is maddening is the fact that all players are not treated evenhandedly. Some players can commit incredibly egregious bone headed plays with perhaps only a momentary disdainful glance from coach. Others... as referenced by SoBeCuse, might be the unlucky recipient of an ill conceived and poorly executed pass which they fumble or miss, and then immediately get the hook and are not seen back on the hardwood for the balance of the game.

Even harder to understand is the ceremonious "starts" of certain players (we don't need names here do we?) who clearly have not earned a starting spot and clearly are not going to play meaningful minutes in the game. This happening against the backdrop of having the best player on the team not starting. Trying to figure out JB's motivation for running things the way he does is an exercise in futility. But... at the end of the day he is 2nd all time in wins, is recruiting big time players, and is widely respected as a giant of the college game. It is what it is. I can however sympathize with those who think a greater effort to integrate the younger players into the rotation might ultimately pay dividends in March and April where we have all too many times not gone as far as one might have expected.

 

[rrlbees]

Eh? By who? You don't normally recruit over MikeyD players, you supplement them. I think Trevor may be in that boat though.

patterson, roberson, mccullough. probably another stud in 14.

 

[Ghost]

Grant has appeared to be the only one who is playing well enough to get minutes just from his play alone. Hopefully the hook isn't so quick going forward.

For Coleman, it's more a matter of Rak/Keita just being better, and we don't really need him if he keeps playing the way he has. Just isn't offering enough to unseat the other two. He should get minutes here or there, probably more than he did against Providence, but not much unless he picks it up.

Cooney, eh, kind of like Coleman's situation, but considering our guard situation, and the tendency for BT to disappear, we could really use him (plus MCW/BT could probably use the rest once in awhile). Hopefully he puts it together at some point - that rarely seems to work out, but I can dream.

 

[tbonezone]

this "ceremonious start" thing is just a bad JB joke that honestly needs to end. it really benefits no one IMO.